Open vs Concealed Carry

[mljdeckard]

So......your first assumption when you see an armed person is that they are a criminal? I have the presumption of innocence AND the right to keep and bear arms.

I am a proud gun owner. I know my rights. But I'm not a total fool. Yes, when I'm out in the desert hunting coyotes, or in the mountains riding quads, I will have my pistol in the open. Pretty much always a rifle too. But when I'm walking down 400 south in Salt Lake, I see no reason to attract the ire of the coffee shop people, who previously had no reason to care one way or the other about whether or not I am armed. We are poised to retake the worst brady grade status back from AZ, and I don't want coffee shop dude showing up at the capitol building to protest our proposal to go constitutional carry because I turned his head two weeks ago.

As for the tactical advantage, I think the deterrence factor at least matches the loss of surprise.

I know what my rights are without needing to advertise to the whole world.

 

[General Geoff]

Now the call goes out, I respond. How in the world am I supposed to know if its a good guy or not? There are plenty of gun carrying idiots I have stopped who are prohibited. I feel for you guys and gals but have some leeway for me too and other cops. That gun is a deal breaker until I know your a good guy and I don't know that until I've already responded and then it just may be too late.

That's a very poor attitude.

Were I a police officer, if I were to respond to a "man with a gun" call in a state where open carry is completely legal, I would go to the scene and observe the suspect for any wrongdoing from a distance. If he did not threaten, draw his firearm, or otherwise break any laws in front of me, I would not interrupt the man simply for going about his business while armed. You simply can't treat everyone as a criminal until proven otherwise, gun or no gun.

I'm sure you don't draw down on every person who passes you in a car, do you? At least a few of them do not have a current valid license to drive. They're in control of 3000+lb projectiles capable of wreaking far more havoc than any small arm. Why are you so nervous and presumptuous around an individual who happens to have a pistol?

 

[Snowy Rivers]

This debate seems to be about as heated as other issues pertaining to carrying a gun.

Unfortunately, its a very tricky situation and to do it wrong can bring about a lot of troubles that we dont need.

As a simple training instructor, I wont claim to have all the answers, but I advise my students to carry as transparently as possible and not to draw any more attention to themselves than they would not carrying.

Just finished a class earlier this morning for a group thats going to apply for their carry permits.

These very questions come up all the time.

I answer the questions the same every time. I worry about anyone that has a carry permit.
If they have to pull that gun to defend themselves, will they get cut down as being an accomplice to the bad guy that has already muddied the waters ???

How will thse people with a CCW respond under pressure, will the freeze up, will they do nothing ???

Its a case of, folks will each respond to their individual gifts.

Why advertise if you dont need to??

Snowy

 

[CZguy]

If the issue comes down to the police, or the general public not being able to identify someone open carrying as a good guy....Well the answer to this discussion is pretty simple to me. We should wear white hats.

I grew up in simpler times.

 

[Snowy Rivers]

I have lamented for a long time about the real possibility of a civilian getting shot by the cops while trying to fend off a Dirt bag.

Its just part of the whole thing me thinks.

Snowy

 

[dmxx9900]

I wont open carry in florida even if it becomes legal because it will be to much hassle with people giving me grief and police interference.
I will open carry in rural areas though but never in the city or suburban areas
conceal carry makes more sense in the city and suburban areas no hassles and more of a surprise advantage.

 

[Erik M]

I open carry 'inna-woods' for utility purposes. IMO it would draw unnecessary attention to me in a public area. Thats just my mantra, in no way do I feel that anyone else should not OC if that's your bag. Ive spent way to much on IWB holsters not to CC at this point heh.

 

[NavyLCDR]

If concealed carry and "the element of surprise" is THE answer to carrying a gun, then why do police officers open carry?

1. Deterrence. I would rather the bad guy see a hardened target and just walk down the street one block or wait two minutes for me to leave, then they will find a plethora of targets not visibly armed. Why would I want to put myself and my family through the trauma of shooting a bad guy once an attack has already started, if I can deter that attack from every beginning? Read printed page 31:

http://www.gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-facts/5.1/gun-facts-5.1-screen.pdf

http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-atlanta/open-carry-deters-armed-robbery-kennesaw

2. Public opinion. The people who are scared of guns are never going to get over that fear of guns if the only image they see of guns is that presented by the Brady Campaign and anti-gun media. The public needs to be exposed to normal Americans doing normal American things wearing a gun on their belt for self-protection in order for them to begin to think that guns are not evil things that need to be hidden from view.

3. Comfort. I don't dress around my gun. I dress in clothes that are comfortable. When I get ready to go out, I put my cell phone in a one pocket and my gun on my belt. No fuss about it.

4. Ease of access. I don't have to fish my gun out of concealment if I need to use it:

http://www.ammoland.com/2009/07/19/gun-owner-saves-lives-in-the-richmond-va-golden-market-shooting/

5. Situational awareness and just staying out of sticky situations is much more important than how you carry your gun. By the time you decide it's time to "surprise" the bad guy, he's already gotten the drop on you:

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/71002412.html


I don't care how you carry your gun. But I don't appreciate being called immature names because I open carry. Leave that stuff to the Brady Campaign, please. I don't "thump my chest". I protect my family.

Open carrying every day: 99% of people make no indication that they see the gun, or at least don't care about it. Of the remaining 1% of the population, 50% will say something positive about the gun. 25% will be curious, will ask about it and will walk away more educated. 25% will be against it, say something about it (see below), and 1% of those will call the cops.

Standing in line at Jack-in-Box:
Stranger: "I carry my gun concealed" (in a snotty, condescending tone).
Me: "Well, you're not very good at it"
Stranger: "What do you mean?"
Me: "I know you have a gun!"
End of conversation.

 

[Patriotme]

I prefer concealed carry over open carry unless I'm doing something like backpacking over the summer (which has been a looong time). Most people that open carry seem to do it because CCW is not allowed or they are interested in proclaiming to the world, "I have a gun and the RIGHT to carry it." That's fine. I like politics and to each his own.
Open carry does however make people nervous and I think those carrying openly should realize that the way that you look does make a huge difference. You should definately dress a little better than your peers standing in line at Burger King or you will be considered a robber and have the police called. That's obvious. Nuff said.
Concealed carry doesn't make all of those around you nervous and you keep the element of suprise. Should a attack, robbery, etc. occur you will be reacting and this automatically puts you at a disadvantage to those with their weapons already out and positioned to control the good guys. You may decide it's better to let a cash drawer get cleaned out, hand over your wallet and leave your gun where it is. Every situation is different and the best response may be to quietly give in to demands. CCW gives you the option to pick your best course of action.
Open carry is the exact opposite. You may lose that choice as you have made yourself the first target. Put yourself in the position of a robber knocking over a local 7-11. You've scoped it out, you know when they are most likely to be empty and the clerks that are too lazy to drop the money into the safe. Your buddy is in the car waiting and you've given yourself just a couple of minutes for this robbery. Oh yeah, you're also drunk or high and you ARE NOT going back to jail on a 3rd strke. Now here's a guy with a Glock on his hip buying a slurpee and a donut. The line is 5 long. What do you do? The motor is running and your friend is even more hyped up than you are? Take out the gun guy first.
I know, I know. Everyone should have such great situational awareness that you can smell and ex con at 100 yds. Your head should be on a swivel 24/7 and you should be ready to leap into action at all times.
Yeah, right. The next time you're in line at a convenience store for 15 minutes buying lottery tickets see if you can keep awareness of 360 degrees of your surroundings the entire time. Not going to happen. The most likely scenario is you are spotted and delt with first when carrying openly.
It's a free country though. To each his own.

 

[IdahoLT1]

Some of you gun owners/members have a very condescending attitude towards your brethren. Looking at some of the comments, its almost hard to realize that this is a pro-RTKBA forum. Neither method of carry is vastly superior to the other. Instead of belittling fellow gun owners for OCing, respect their choice as that's what's best for them.


NavyLT make some very valid points. He is obviously very dedicated to protecting himself and his family. It's obvious that OC works extremely well for him so why couldn't it for others?

 

[cambeul41]

I prefer to carry concealed, but feel the need for only indifferent, casual concealment = covered up, but not deeply concealed.

Mainsail makes a good argument here for openly carrying. http://www.usacarry.com/forums/open-carry-discussion/7230-open-carry-argument.html

 

[mljdeckard]

Patriotme-

You are neglecting to consider the possibility that is even more likely. Two desperate guys with two strikes casing a convenience store to knock over, and they see a guy in line to pay for his slurpee has a gun on his hip. They decide to GO SOMEWHERE ELSE.

 

[Flintknapper]

Well said NavyLT!


That pretty much sums it up for me.


Flint.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Now the call goes out, I respond. How in the world am I supposed to know if its a good guy or not? There are plenty of gun carrying idiots I have stopped who are prohibited. I feel for you guys and gals but have some leeway for me too and other cops. That gun is a deal breaker until I know your a good guy and I don't know that until I've already responded and then it just may be too late.

I will gladly give you as much "leeway" as the 4th Amendment to the US Constitution gives you. Deal?

 

[Sam1911]

Conceal if you want or if you must.

Carry openly if you're comfortable with it, the laws allow it, and circumstances are favorable.

Decide for yourself what you will do -- and RESPECT THE (legal) CHOICES OF OTHER GUN OWNERS.

Remember, regardless of media stupidity, the opinions of a few who don't want guns in the hands of citizens in any case, and the actions of a few bad apples -- ownership of a firearm is a right and possession and carrying ("bearing") of that firearm can be completely LEGAL and RIGHTFUL in a vast and varied array of methods and circumstances.

...

We seem to argue over this every couple of weeks. Before anyone brings this up again, STOP, SEARCH, READ what points have been made before.

Then, try and grant the merits of the arguments made by those who disagree with whichever side you're on. You'll probably find that there is validity to be found in at least a few opinions on the side favoring concealed carry and that favoring open, equally.

We don't all have to do it the same way. We don't have to do it the same way in every situation. We should support each other and help promote the BEARING of firearms in whatever way works for our fellow gun owners.