Palmetto State Armory Upper: A Seasoned Fella's Critique

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boricua9mm

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I finally decided that I wanted to have an AR as a "truck gun." If you'd wish to debate the issues surrounding a "truck gun" then please feel free to do it on a new thread.

I wound up getting a "Premium" Palmetto State Armory upper with the FN manufactured 16" Cold Hammer Forged M4A1 SOCOM profile barrel (carbine length gas, no flats milled for the M203 - which is kinda weird). The upper also came with the 12" long Midwest Industries Gen 2. SS float free rail. Now, I've been a customer of PSA for several years and I watched them get into the AR game. I saw them have some teething problems, and I'm sorry to report that some such problems still exist. My upper was no exception.

With PSA, it's not only what the listed specs say, but also what they DON'T say. My "Premium" upper came with a semi-auto carrier and a bolt that is marked MPI, but not HP/HPT. One should question why bothering with MPI without performing the proof load testing. My own opinion is that it is done to save a few bucks, and the buyer who knows "just enough to be dangerous" won't question the actual testing therein; they're happy that it's marked at all. No worries, the BCG got tossed in my spare parts basket and replaced with a Spike's Tactical BCG. I've always had good luck with Spike's and I like the idea of supporting a local manufacturer of quality goods, Obama Panic Price Increases and silly M4Carbine.net drama be damned.

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Against my better judgement, I test fired the upper for 200 rounds without going through the upper to verify it was assembled properly. Later that night, I was somewhat shocked at my findings. My brother used to joke "Don't trust anyone but your mother...and even then, check twice!"

Removing the handguard, I immediately noticed that PSA used two globs of what appears to be Red Loctite (it's possibly Vibratite or Rocksett) on the barrel nut knurling that provides a friction fit for the Midwest Industries handguard. Now, according to Midwest Industries, thread-locker is required for properly installing this handguard. The real head-scratcher is why PSA made no attempt to apply it to the whole knurled surface. Considering that the handguard is held in place by clamping pressure and the friction between the knurled barrel nut and the free float tube, you'd think that maximum surface area would be the smart way to go.

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Moving up to the gas block was the real shocker. The gas block set screws were installed *just barely* finger tight! Considering we're talking about 26,000 PSI at the gas port, doesn't some torque seem prudent? Removing the screws revealed no thread locker whatsoever, and the barrel was not dimpled to give those screws a bite into the barrel steel. I degreased everything, used a center punch to dimple the barrel (not the best way, but it works), added red Loctite on the screws and installed them nice and tight.

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Lately I've been more of a fan of lightweight profile barrels, but the CHF SOCOM barrel seems to shoot on par with my gov't profile (non-pencil) barrels. Since the tube weighs next to nothing, any weight issues associated with the barrel profile is cancelled out.

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As a truck gun, black wasn't gonna work. I decided to go for a color scheme that splits the difference between urban camo and something more woodsy. Rustoleum green was laid down as the base coat and some primer gray was striped in some spots and misted all around to lighten it up. I gave it 3 coats of Rustoleum's Matte Clear coat. The end result is somewhere between green and the currently popular "disruptive grey." It wears the Midwest Industries panel kit with handstop, as well as the HK416 style sights from RobertRTG. I was worried that these sights would be too low, but they work great for me, and the sight picture is an almost seamless transition from my MP5.

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Would I still buy that upper? For my project I would have done it again, however, for someone who is new to AR15s, I shudder at the thought of them getting an improperly built upper with the potential of shooting itself apart. Would a newbie strip off the free float tube and check the gas block installation? I doubt it. In my case, the only assembly step that was done right was torquing the barrel nut. I am thankful that I didn't choose to blindly trust this upper without going through it with a fine toothed comb. My upper was basically a parts kit that was sorta put together.

Just some food for thought for those of you who are out on the market looking to build a cheap rifle, but may not know what to look for when it comes to assembly methods. Kinda scary if you ask me!
 
How, exactly, could the upper "shoot itself apart"?

Sounds like there are some legit QC issues but perhaps my naivety is why I don't understand the big deal about a semi profile carrier or non-HPI marked bolt on a non-fighting rifle.

Less reliable, or perceived less reliable?
 
How, exactly, could the upper "shoot itself apart"?

Heat from shooting makes metal expand. The vibration from firing tends to make screws back out. One wouldn't want a handguard sliding off or a gas block flying downrange.

Sounds like there are some legit QC issues but perhaps my naivety is why I don't understand the big deal about a semi profile carrier or non-HPI marked bolt on a non-fighting rifle.

The carrier issue is one of timing of the whole system. The system is designed to push a specific mass. Lightening that mass speeds things up, which can lead to problems, or require band-aid fixes.

I guess for me, a truck gun should be treated as a "fighting rifle." I'm not pulling over to fire it for grins; it's there for emergency use.
 
I don't think they offer the M16 bolt carrier as a standard item. If you paid for it they owe you one. The Midwest Hand guard uses locktite on the screws and not the barrel nut. I'm installing one next week on my upper build. I don't recall seeing it being used anywhere else.
 
It's really funny to me what types of things people really care about on an AR.

I understand the gas block issue but you really don't need dimples on the barrel. The screws should hold it just fine without dimples. Though I can see why someone might want that done. I bought a DSA rifle when I was first into ARs that didn't even have the gas block screws screwed in. It took me a minute to figure out why I only had a single shot rifle. I figured it out when the gas block slid down to the muzzle brake.

I think we make way too big of a deal out of the MPI / HPT stuff. There are plenty of compaines with good reputations that only do batch testing.
 
With military pattern rifles, life would be so much easier if things fell into two simple categories.

Military Spec:
Meeting the specifications of the rifle as it was designed to operate. You must pay the price of a few boxes of ammo for this "feature" set.

Bubba Spec: Hell, it looks cool. Who cares if it was built with the proper materials, testing methods, or common sense! Drive it like ya stole it! You dun saved enough to buy four cases o' the Silver Bullet or the Miller Missile.

Navigating advertisements, websites, gun reviews, etc. would be soooo much easier.
 
nice writeup. have you contacted PSA to voice your concerns? i'd be interested to hear their response. they've always seemed to have pretty good customer service.
 
I agree with the installation issues but not the bolt. Those specs should be given at the time of purchase and I'm sure if you called and asked them they would tell you exactly what you were getting. The last upper I got a few weeks ago is made by Novekse and I still gave it a close once-over (it was perfect but hell it should be..and they pin the gas block anyways). Would I be mad at PSA? Probably not mad but I might call them and say "hey, you guys need to torque things up right, etc". "Trust but verify".
 
What ammunition was used for the 200 round shake down shoot and were there any malfunctions. Thank you for the post.
 
I built a FrankenSPR with a SS15G2 and BHW barrel with no gas block dimples. Not a drop of loctite was put by me on anything, as it was my first AR build and I didn't think I needed to.

It has functioned flawlessly for nearly 1000rds, most of which has been 5.56 pressure Mk262 clones, and the handguard is still nice and tight.

Maybe next range trip it'll go down or spontaneously combust...but probably not.
 
What ammunition was used for the 200 round shake down shoot and were there any malfunctions. Thank you for the post.

Federal XM855. No issues feeding, firing, or extracting. Cases were ejecting at 3:30-4:00, so some folks might read into this as the rifle being overgassed. Personally, so long as the recoil doesn't feel excessive and the gun is feeding/firing/ejecting properly, I don't care where the brass lands.

Maybe next range trip it'll go down or spontaneously combust...but probably not.

Maybe you're intentionally being overtly colorful with your language, but "spontaneously combust?" Seriously? Anyone with a basic understanding of rifle mechanics can see the issues with a friction fit tube on a knurled ring. Personally, I'd never sink the money in an SPR build and let PSA's Friday Afternoon assembly practices pass muster.

It has functioned flawlessly for nearly 1000rds, most of which has been 5.56 pressure Mk262 clones, and the handguard is still nice and tight.

That's wonderful, but 1,000 rounds is what this rifle will see as a break-in, without cleaning, before it goes and serves its purpose. Half-witted installation against the explicit instructions of the manufacturer is not the weak link that this rifle will hinge upon.

I agree with the installation issues but not the bolt. Those specs should be given at the time of purchase and I'm sure if you called and asked them they would tell you exactly what you were getting.

This goes back the the issue of what they state and what they do not state. This was a "Premium Upper" and to be honest, their description did not specifically state a FA carrier, nor did it specify that the bolt steel was Carpenter 158, shot peened, HPT and MPI and phosphate/manganese finished. I never gambled on the BCG being the equivalent of a Colt/Daniel Defense/BCM/etc., so I didn't press the issue. I have several ARs and can always use spare parts, so I kept it as such.

Caveat Emptor. If you're looking for something at PSA that's truly Mil-Spec, you need to make sure all the claims are explicitly listed in the item description.
 
Then why did you get the upper from PSA instead of Spike's?

..because when I checked, Spikes didn't offer a complete upper with a cold hammer forged barrel and modular free floated forend at the $500 price point.

Unless you've got somethin' to share with us...???
 
Sounds like you went with the best deal you could find and are now seeing where your savings came from. I personally think you are making mountains out of molehills for an upper you can get for under $500 that comes with a $200 handguard.

The handguard would give me some concern, but you could have easily looked into that prior to purchase and found the install specs beforehand. Every review I've seen about the MI handguard has been positive.
The bolt thing has been tossed around....the last thread I read ended with someone who is actually involved with the manufactur of ar-15 bolts stated they had never had a single failure of a bolt from pressure testing, so at that point the manufacturer viewed it as more of a marketing exercise than a necessary step in quality control.
The whole "gas block flying downrange" thing sounds a mite over dramatized to me.

Glad you are happy with your rifle now that you've gone through it.
 
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The handguard would give me some concern, but you could have easily looked into that prior to purchase and found the install specs beforehand.

Let me be clear; I purchased an upper from a company who'd I'd been doing business with for years and rolled the dice, banking on the fact that the handguard would have been installed properly. It turned out to be hastily installed. For me, it's not harm, no foul, but for someone just getting into ARs who everyone tells "PSA IS GOOD TO GO!?" Hmmm...

The whole "gas block flying downrange" thing sounds a mite over dramatized to me.

Maybe so, maybe not. LPGBs are usually a press fit, but the gas block is a Midwest Industries block as well. Not at the top of the food chain, but not a catfish either. Tolerances play a huge role in these types of setups. On more basic setups there is much less to worry about; I never lose sleep about a pinned FSB or standard handguards nestled in a delta ring. Likewise I don't worry about my Daniel Defense free float rails. It's all about design, execution and installation.

Like you said, the important thing is that it's sorted out. I just worry about those who don't know the first thing about the sorting...
 
was the upper advertised as coming with a full-auto profile carrier?

was it advertised as including a MPI and HP tested bolt?

The upper was advertised as a "Premium" Complete upper with M16 BCG, MPI tested. As I've already stated, the problems lie in what is NOT EXPLICITLY stated by PSA. To me, an M16 BCG means a full auto profile. Had they said an AR15 carrier, then that implies a semi auto carrier. What they sent was not an M16 BCG. Granted, they sent an MPI'd bolt, but without HPT, that test and subsequent marking is worthless. Let me also mention that the order of this testing is important (MSAR was confirmed to order MPI'd bolts for AUG clones and then fire proof loads through them before shipping them out!). It's certainly not Carpenter 158, and it's not a phosphate finished bolt. Who knows what its coated it. That's actually the point I'm trying to make; PSA's "Premium" BCG is a fortune cookie filled with mystery. That's fine if your other consideration is a Bushmaster, but if a new buyer is looking at specs and trying to compare something like a BCM to the PSA offering, then, let's just say there's a lot of details being left off of the list.

Sounds like you went with the best deal you could find and are now seeing where your savings came from. I personally think you are making mountains out of molehills for an upper you can get for under $500 that comes with a $200 handguard.

I love when folks try to go back and re-edit a post to form an argumentative standpoint when there previously was none, but I'll play along. What makes you think for one second that I'm somehow hoodwinked in all of this? Do you think that someone who just rolled off the bed into an AR15 would highlight and present the details being discussed here?

Where do you get the notion that the handguard is a $200 tube? Everywhere I shop seems to place your number at least $30 North of reality (a.k.a. FULL BLOWN RETAIL).

If you guys want to be PSA apologists, feel free. I'm not in shock that they've cut corners in materials on a BCG. I'm shocked that they would compromise assembly and push out uppers that are improperly assembled.

The point of this thread is to inform people that when they're getting a good deal on something, it's not a free lunch; There is No Free Lunch.

One week from now there will be countless more threads with members recommending PSA offerings to new shooters for self defense and emergency purposes when such an offering might need a once-over by someone who knows what they're looking at.
 
IMO Your needs and expectations have certainly exceeded the money you decided to spend, and the research you decided to do. If a combat ready, shtf gun is what you need, I would have gone with what you knew and have continuously stated, a bcm bolt or upper instead of going with a lowest priced upper with the highest quality components, then acting shocked that it had some minor corner cutting and needs some minor work to be up to the level of higher priced guns. I will continue to suggest psa to anyone looking for a quality rifle at that price point, and I would bet that your upper would serve 99.9% of people just fine as is as a truck gun, self defense, or emergency weapon.

"Improperly assembled".... How, exactly, was it improperly assembled other than a few under torqued screws?

I'm not saying that psa is perfect, I'm agreeing there is no free lunch but psa is the best at that price point. I have yet to hear of a rash of failures of psa uppers, bolts, or carriers. I say again, mountains out of molehills.

If you feel shorted, send it back and call and ask questions first next time.
 
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Why did you buy a PSA upper if you've honestly been following their history as stated in the original post? They, at the very best, have a spotty history. They make price point products. You wanted top tier quality for bargain basement pricing and then don't understand why issues present?

The big message here is you get what you pay for. If you don't pay for top tier quality with top tier options, assembled to top tier spec, you won't get it. You may be able to remedy some of that on your own and you may be able to remedy some of that with simple replacement parts. If you don't pay for it or have the knowledge to do it right yourself, you won't get it. There is no free lunch and its silly to think there is. If PSA was honestly on par with the top tier manufacturers/assemblers you would be paying an equal price.
 
Wouldn't a pinned FSB and standard handgaurds been better and cheaper for a "truck gun"? Seems like your carbine was a dab of locktite and a allen wrench away from a free lunch.
 
Interesting thread and some valid points but you're talking about a single PSA upper and it's hard to extrapolate from a sample of one.

I can do the same, which is of questionable value since I also have just one PSA upper. It's a basic 16" LW midlength I bought on sale for $280 a year ago. There is nothing wrong with the upper, in fact it compares well with my BCM upper. I also bought their Premium BCG and charging handle.

Now the PSA BCG issue is real. I know they sell at least four "PSA" versions and the Premium is supposed to be M16/HPT/MPI and have the PSA logo on the carrier. People need to be aware of which version they are buying.

I do think you should have contacted PSA because they would have replaced your BCG at no cost to you. You should have given them the chance to correct that mistake and it's unfair to ding them now.

Like you, my PSA BCG now is a spare and my former spare from BCM is in the PSA upper. It appears to be an adequate unit (and actually is their Premium version) but I have more confidence in the BCM BCG so why not have it in the rifle.
 
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While I agree the gas block screws should have been correctly torqued, HPT testing is not a big deal. In fact, there have been findings of HPT testing actually harming test passing parts, which then fail on the user. MPI is the big one, along with shot peening and correct steel grade. I have had a few PSA uppers and all have performed flawlessly over the course of many thousand rounds (ouch ammo isnt cheap anymore:what:). I currently have a BCM upper nestled on a PSA lower with a Ranier Arms BCG. I cannot tell a practical difference between the two. Sad to say, considering the BCM upper alone cost almost as much as the entire PSA rifle:banghead:. I'd bet my life on either one, but then again, I'd bet my life on my great grandfathers S&W .32long Hand Ejector too.:D
 
Caveat Emptor. If you're looking for something at PSA that's truly Mil-Spec, you need to make sure all the claims are explicitly listed in the item description.

I think this is a biggie, meaning that people buying their products need to take a long hard look at what exactly they are getting.

Take a close look at the item descriptions to see if you are buying a BCG that is or isn't Carpenter158 bolt, HPT/MPI, and FA carrier. Those are a big deal IMO. They sell numerous different parts at steep discounts so a buyer needs to be aware of what he is ordering.

To the OP, if the "premium" upper you ordered specifically stated M16 BCG, you should take that up with PSA and get it replaced with the correct one with an Auto Carrier.

PSA sells countless AR parts and rifles at bottom dollar prices, its not surprising that they will screw up a few rifles in the process. I've owned exactly 2 PSA rifles that were built correctly (fortunately) and did not have any issues, including one that also had a MI Gen2 15" rail and Premium BCG with the PSA logo. But I did not put them through the paces to know how they will hold up in the long run due to the expensive ammo prices earlier this year.
 
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