Palmetto State Armory Upper: A Seasoned Fella's Critique

[justice06rr]

For most folks (me included), free float rails are a waste of money. You can make a pretty sweet AR these days for little coin if you just avoid the free float and go with Magpul handguards. Damn, those Magpul handguards are practical as Hell, hold everything I want them to hold, and cost practically nothing when compared to FF rails that do nothing more for me (other than look cool).

For the most part, standard handguards (including Magpul's) will work just fine for casual shooters.

I had a Magpul FDE midlength handguard on my PSA complete upper, but it still had a bit of play/wobble that I did not like. So on the following AR build I went with a free float rail to eliminate any handguard movement.

 

[Sam1911]

Ahem...

"Now, there is a request on the floor for an SKU number. No reason not to post that -- let's have it so we can get one more piece of the puzzle."

Well?

 

[back40]

the lack of response tells me more than anything else posted by the op.

 

[boricua9mm]

According to my order history, the SKU was 36782.

What's your new revelations?

 

[BoilerUP]

It appears that SKU (and associated page) has been removed from the website.

There is, however, a SKU #36779 that has the SS12G2, 16" CHF M4A1 profile barrel and says it comes with "M16 bolt carrier group".

 

[ngnrd]

As far as revelations go, I can say that you did not order the same upper that I ordered. Beyond that, considering that SKU#36782 doesn't show up on PSA's website, I don't think we can draw any conclusions at all.

 

[boricua9mm]

A 1000 round break in "without cleaning" is, in my opinion, questionable. That nice lube you started out with slowly becomes nothing more than lapping paste, accelerating wear rather than preventing it. Sure it ought to go the 1000 and more, but what are you proving? Do you envision a scenario for your truck gun where you might have to fire 1000 rounds without cleaning and lubing?

Sorry to tell ya, but carbon suspended in oil does not a lapping compound make. If a modern rifle, starting with proper lube, can't fire 1,000 rounds without cleaning then it's a POS.

Bottom line: are you going to call PSA this week and ask them to replace the semi BCG for a full auto one?

No. It'll be another mystery BCG that is sent as a replacement. Therein lies the current state of affairs with PSA's AR offerings.

Maybe PSA screwed up, maybe they didn't. But so far, the only thing I can confirm is that you aren't happy with what you actually got. And, that bit of information doesn't help without knowing WHY you aren't happy, and whether or not it's actually PSA's fault.

A "Premium" BCG, by their own definition, should not be a semi-auto carrier with a bolt that is only marked MPI.

Well, maybe yeah. Pretty much. I haven't seen that much ducking and weaving since dodge ball in high school gym class

Doesn't seem to fit the mission statement of "The High Road" whatsoever.

Last edited by ngnrd; Today at 01:06 PM. Reason: OP posted while I was typing...

Someone's not being honest. I posted at 12:27, but somehow at 1:06PM, I was posting as you were typing? That's the sound of a 10-speed backpedaling.

 

[ngnrd]

... Someone's not being honest. I posted at 12:27, but somehow at 1:06PM, I was posting as you were typing? That's the sound of a 10-speed backpedaling.

Seriously, take off the tin foil hat. You want to know what I was typing? Well, I still have notepad open. So, here you go... COPY, PASTE

the lack of response tells me more than anything else posted by the op.

I'm not going to pile on PSA without more info - and I'm not going to pile on the OP, either. I'll reserve judgement until he posts something else on the forum. Sometimes people get busy doing other stuff and they don't log in every day. He hasn't posted anything since his last post in this thread. Sure, maybe he just doesn't want to respond. But maybe he's sitting in a hospital somewhere. Or, maybe he's on vacation, or out hunting for a while. Who knows?

Regardless, I'm not looking to jump on the guy. I just want to know if PSA is having some legit quality control issues so I can make more informed purchasing decisions.

A single data point does not make a trend. But, lack of corroborating data does not justify dismissing that single data point, either. All data means something. Maybe it means there's a problem with the actual process being monitored. But, maybe it means there's a problem with the data collection. And, unless you know what that data actually is, simply knowing it exists doesn't provide any useful information.

 

[ngnrd]

And, for the record, I've emailed PSA requesting the specs of SKU# 36782. Will post when I hear back.

 

[Sam1911]

<Seriously? Dig however deep you have to to find some courtesy for each other or we won't be having this conversation any more. Please and thank you wouldn't hurt.>

 

[Quentin]

Bottom line: are you going to call PSA this week and ask them to replace the semi BCG for a full auto one?

... No. It'll be another mystery BCG that is sent as a replacement. Therein lies the current state of affairs with PSA's AR offerings...

I don't buy this. And it doesn't have to be a mystery. If your order was described as having their Premium BCG then PSA will replace the questionable SA/AR-15 BCG with a Premium BCG. Simple as that.

And how do I know? Well, during the BCG drought earlier this year I squeezed in an order for the PSA Premium BCG while it was briefly in stock. Alas, a lesser version was delivered. After contacting PSA I was emailed a printable UPS shipping label to return the BCG and they cross-shipped the correct part at no cost to me. They also threw in a charging handle I was supposed to get but didn't.

They do make mistakes but they will make it right.

It's not fair to bash them without giving them a chance to fix the problem. Please.

And it isn't a "mystery BCG" if the carrier is FA with the PSA logo and the bolt is marked HPT/MP

Thank you

 

[ngnrd]

I humbly apologize if any of my posts have come across as confrontational. That certainly isn't my intention.

boricua9mm - thank you for posting the SKU#. Since PSA doesn't currently list that SKU on their website, could you please verify that the number you posted is correct? It may be possible that PSA has discontinued that item and pulled it from their website. Or, you may have inadvertently posted the number incorrectly. Thank you.

 

[boricua9mm]

I don't buy this. And it doesn't have to be a mystery. If your order was described as having their Premium BCG then PSA will replace the questionable SA/AR-15 BCG with a Premium BCG. Simple as that

With companies like BCM, they only sell one level of quality. With PSA, they offer multiple levels ane even their employees have a hard time getting it straight. PSA has openly stated that "some" of their "premium" BCGs have logos and markings, and some of the "premium" ones do not. There is no guarantee that PSA will send me a branded bolt that is properly marked and tested. This is very well documented on arf.com and other places.

This thread isn't about PSA not being willing to fix a problem. It's about the fact that there are blatant problems to begin with. When someone comes on the board asking about building an AR, we are all quick to offer suggestions. What we might be leaving out is the simple fact that while the cheaper options like PSA might give good results, there is a high probability that something's not quite right. This is the "trust, but verify" mentioned in the original post.

boricua9mm - thank you for posting the SKU#. Since PSA doesn't currently list that SKU on their website, could you please verify that the number you posted is correct? It may be possible that PSA has discontinued that item and pulled it from their website. Or, you may have inadvertently posted the number incorrectly. Thank you.

Thanks, I apologize for getting snippy in return. I just find it odd that some folks (not necessarily you) are condoned for questioning the integrity of other members openly when such behavior goes against the mission statement of the board. Moderating can't be an easy job, but uinfortunately it sometimes seems selective. I certainky haven't hung around for 8 years looking for a prime opportunity to slam an AR vendor. Some Johnny Come Lately types seem wedded to that notion, which makes zero sense.

I have checked the SKU number again, and that is indeed the SKU number that appears on my Invoice via their site.

 

[Warp]

What is most telling, to me, is how it PSA is so frequently the manufacturer/retailer these kinds of things happen with.

Who else?

 

[Fishbed77]

With companies like BCM, they only sell one level of quality.

Um... If you go to BCM's website, they sell plenty of non-"mil-spec" parts from DPMS, Stag, etc.

 

[Jackal]

This conversation is totally meaningless if the OP isnt willing to simply exchange the bcg for the correct one. If you dont like it and wont send it back, then why even bother posting? PSA cant make it right because you wont let them. Seems kinda trollish to me...

 

[back40]

^ exactly my point.

someone who orders something, supposedly doesn't get what they ordered, refuses to contact the company and give them the opportunity to remedy the situation, yet wants to complain until he's blue in the face. sounds like you just want something to complain about.

and no, this isn't "piling on" the op. it's simply an observation that has been clear since the outset. i asked several times if he was going to contact psa about it to see what they had to say, and it's clear the op would rather urinate up a rope instead.

 

[Warp]

This conversation is totally meaningless if the OP isnt willing to simply exchange the bcg for the correct one. If you dont like it and wont send it back, then why even bother posting? PSA cant make it right because you wont let them. Seems kinda trollish to me...

Why is it always PSA that is sending stuff out that isn't right?

 

[ugaarguy]

This conversation is totally meaningless if the OP isnt willing to simply exchange the bcg for the correct one. If you dont like it and wont send it back, then why even bother posting? PSA cant make it right because you wont let them. Seems kinda trollish to me...

The BCG group is just one of many problems that the OP had with his upper. His critique was objective and factual. I wouldn't call this thread trolling.

someone who orders something, supposedly doesn't get what they ordered, refuses to contact the company and give them the opportunity to remedy the situation, yet wants to complain until he's blue in the face. sounds like you just want something to complain about.

Again, you and several others are focusing on one of the many issues experienced. Even then, I disagree that he has nothing to complain about. PSA should have sent the proper part to start with. It's just like all the Bushmaster and DPMS rifles I saw with tight and / or rough chambers when I worked in gun retail. Sure, our gunsmith would polish out the rough ones so they'd work, but that's still poor QC that a gunsmith essentially has to finish the chamber for you. And on the really tight chambers we'd send them back to the company, and the company would fix them. Still, there's no reason to ever send out a bbl like that on a new rifle, and the customer shouldn't be without his rifle for several weeks while it's shipped, fixed, and returned.

Given, in light of post #61, the OP should contact PSA and see if they'll remedy the BCG group issue.

 

[back40]

Given, in light of post #61, the OP should contact PSA and see if they'll remedy the BCG group issue.

which he's already stated he has no intention of doing.

i agree there were other issues at hand that shouldn't be deemed acceptable. but the lack of willingness to at least contact the vendor and voice concern to allow them to right the wrongs just seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face. and as far as psa sending the proper part, we have no real way of knowing whether they did or not, because the op's sku is a mystery at this point.

again, i'm not faulting him for wanting what he ordered, or expecting it to be assembled properly, but if he feels he didn't get what he paid for, choosing to be stubborn and refusing to contact them is simply ridiculous.

 

[Quentin]

Why is it always PSA that is sending stuff out that isn't right?

I wouldn't single out just PSA, though they certainly have had their growing problems, especially this year when every AR vendor was scrambling to fill orders. I suspect it was a madhouse there from the sales dept to the warehouse to shipping. But through it all they have kept prices low. I have been pleased with every product I've purchased from PSA over the past two years.

 

[Jackal]

While PSA offers good quality rifles at affordable prices, they still are indeed "budget" AR-15's. My advice to the OP would be this: If you are unsatisfied with the products purchased from PSA, contact them to start the refund or exchange process. There's a reason a BCM upper alone costs as much as an entire PSA rifle, the cost is in the details. If you are not satisfied, then why not just return it? I think this has everyone baffled. I understand not being happy with the product, every company ships out a turd here and there, but seriously, contact them. PSA, like most reputable sellers, prefer to have happy customers and I'm sure they will take the steps required to make you happy. If you purchased a rifle from Ruger (for instance) that shipped to you with a problem, would you not call them for service?

 

[WinThePennant]

For the most part, standard handguards (including Magpul's) will work just fine for casual shooters.

I had a Magpul FDE midlength handguard on my PSA complete upper, but it still had a bit of play/wobble that I did not like. So on the following AR build I went with a free float rail to eliminate any handguard movement.

I guess I can understand if you want an absolutely rock-solid handguard.

All my Magpul handguards, and every single one I've ever handled, has had what I'd call a micro-meter wobble. I've always found the Magpul 'wobble' to be a greatly over-blown reason to avoid Magpul handguards.

 

[WinThePennant]

While PSA offers good quality rifles at affordable prices, they still are indeed "budget" AR-15's. My advice to the OP would be this: If you are unsatisfied with the products purchased from PSA, contact them to start the refund or exchange process. There's a reason a BCM upper alone costs as much as an entire PSA rifle, the cost is in the details. If you are not satisfied, then why not just return it? I think this has everyone baffled. I understand not being happy with the product, every company ships out a turd here and there, but seriously, contact them. PSA, like most reputable sellers, prefer to have happy customers and I'm sure they will take the steps required to make you happy. If you purchased a rifle from Ruger (for instance) that shipped to you with a problem, would you not call them for service?

I agree that their rifles are budget priced. I don't necessarily agree that they are 'budget' quality.

Most barreled upper assemblies sold by PSA are, in fact, made with barrels manufactured by FN. In effect, you are getting an FN upper when you buy from PSA. I don't know anyone who would say that FN makes 'budget' quality merchandise.

I used to think that Stag Arms consistently made the best LPKs. Now, I hold PSA's LPKs in the same regard. I still buy Stag, but only because I like their ambi LPK. But for that, I'd buy PSA LPKs.

 

[Warp]

I agree that their rifles are budget priced. I don't necessarily agree that they are 'budget' quality.

Most barreled upper assemblies sold by PSA are, in fact, made with barrels manufactured by FN. In effect, you are getting an FN upper when you buy from PSA. I don't know anyone who would say that FN makes 'budget' quality merchandise.

I used to think that Stag Arms consistently made the best LPKs. Now, I hold PSA's LPKs in the same regard. I still buy Stag, but only because I like their ambi LPK. But for that, I'd buy PSA LPKs.

But you don't get an FN upper. You get a PSA upper.

Which may not go as well.