Paper Cartridges, step by step photos..

[pascalp]

My feeling with loading block came from metallic reloading. Where we have a lot of manipulations, each case/cartridge is move individually from a hole to another one (eventually another loading block) at each step (single stage press).

That's why I don't see an easy way (for in fact a quite different process), which don't mean that there isn't one.

 

[Tallyman541]

Well I guess you could do many diffrent things with this idea

 

[Tallyman541]

I think I am going insane with trying to think of another idea

 

[grislyatoms]

Timuchin:

Thank you very, very much. I never realized (but it makes sense now) that paper cartridges could be loaded in this manner. I did know about the "rip, pour, stuff the paper, ram the ball" type of cartridges, but not these.

You have added a completely new dimension to bp shooting for me.

My 1851 Navy repro is really excited about these!

 

[Tallyman541]

Hey anyway we can help just ask

 

[gsthreeeight]

Paper Cartridges

Timuchin-

Cigarette papers are certainly a heck of a lot easier than simmering paper in a potassium nitrate solution! And even then I have to brush the cylinders clean of paper residue after about 36 shots. Paper is probably too thick.

And your method is much simpler than mine. I use a template to cut the paper to shape then form it over a shaped wooden dowel before gluing with sodium silicate. The result is a truncated cone, open on the large end. I use a dab of sodium silicate to attach the ball or conical projectile to the paper.

For those interested in a BP revolver, the Ruger is hard to beat. Perhaps not too "authentic" in design or appearance, but sturdy, well made and, in my examples, accurate. One of my favorite loads is a 230gr. cast RN for the .45ACP over 30gr. of FFFg. I have "opened up" the frame ahead of the cylinder to facilitate loading the longer RN projectiles.

Great Forum. Lots of good info.
New member

 

[JediJJJ]

Paper Cartridge Reloading Set

Don't know if this applies but I just received an order from possibleshop.com. On the included flyer is a listing for "Paper Cartridge Reloading Sets" for Sharps rifles. Don't know exactly what this entails or if it could be adapted to pistol cartridges but I thought I'd mention it and let the experts here have at it.

 

[BoomBoom2]

Thanks for the Tip!!

I was thinking of a simular idea but not as suffisticated as your genous idea.

 

[Dithsoer]

I've been making paper cartridges for years but an additional step that I take is to "paint" each finished cartridge with nitrocellulose shellac. This can be easily made by dissolving a spoonful of regular smokeless powder in several spoonfuls of acetone (fingernail polish remover). Depending on the powder used it may take more or less acetone. Once I have a thin syrup I store it in a sealed glass container (the acetone evaporates quickly). Using a small childrens paintbrush I just paint each cartridge with a thin coat of it. Not only does this ensure reliable ignition without the use of a nipple pick, the paper is completely consumed. As an added benefit it also waterproofs them. I have been doing this for years and have never had a failure to fire.

 

[Duncaninfrance]

A TRANSLATION FROM A NEW MEMBER

This was sent as a PM to me by steveb, a new member. Steven said he couldn't seem to post it so here it is. Thanks Steven.

Regarding french paper cartridge article
Heres a translation if you can post it . I tried but it wouldnt let me. Maybe because its a sticky I dont know. Heres is the translation......Steve.

A couple of disclaimers. My wife is not a native French speaker. Her expertise is 17th - 18th century written French. It is much more different from modern French than English of the same period is from modern English. Also, this guy thinks he's funny so, some of the wording and sentence structure wasn't adjusted.

Ta Da!

"Making .44 caliber black-powder Combustible Cartridges"

One day I went to see a movie. It was “Glory”. The war and battle scenes were Spielberg’s ahead of his time! The realism of “Saving Private Ryan” during the war of Secession!
I particularly remember the young colonel, commander of the Northern regiment of black volunteers, loading his 1860 Colt as fast as he could through the hail of .58 bullets, shot by the boy opposite him. This gave me ideas, because, frankly, he had quickened the devil! (slang)

On a much more peaceful note, what percussion revolver marksman doesn’t wipe out the pitying looks of his neighbors, by shooting the beautiful, shiny cartridges inserted by hand in the end of the cylinder? (Frankly, the scoundrels want to keep us, the “powder lovers” from “smoking”.)
Enough said! We have to be able to charge as quickly as on the field of battle, and the marksmen of tin cans (metal cartridges) will have to wait and see!

We will also start to make cartridges like others and we will not have to spend any more time in the shop than the reloaders (lit. “rechargers”)and with more time for shooting. Well, let’s get to it!

MATERIALS NEEDED:

Cigarette paper, as thin as possible, type OCB Premium, Slim, large model.

A mandrel to make a holder, to roll the cigarette paper. A 9.3X 74R case (lit. socket) is perfect for the cartridge holder meant for a .44 caliber. Take care to cut the collar about 1 mm above the shoulder in order to give a loose conical shape to the holder at the end of the paper. (Or, make a mandrel) of metal or wood 60mm long and having 10.20 mm diameter at one end, and 11.70 mm at the other.
The precision of these dimensions and therefore the conical shape, are very important for the proper development of the loading operation and especially of the bullets.

(Use) a little funnel to pour the powder. I use a very fine lightweight aluminum one that can be placed on he holder without crushing it.

All other types allowing the powder to spill can suit, but it is important not to crush the holder.

Discs (rounds, slices, circles) and wads of 10 mm diameter.

Fine semolina flour, if possible.

A little hand drill, (spiral). (The pic. is of an old hand auger.-ed)

Angled pliers, (tweezers).

Round lead bullets.

Of course, these basic materials can be adapted to each function and level of expertise.

1. MAKING THE HOLDER

(1) Place the cigarette-paper on the mandrel, glue side on top and toward you. Hold between the thumb and forefinger of each hand, begin to roll with a rotation movement of the index fingers toward you above the thumbs and moisten the glue with your tongue along the length of the paper.
(2) Finish rolling , twist the paper.
(3) Cut immediately the excess flush, (close, short cropped) with the bore of the mandarin, with the aid of the angled pliers.
Next, remove the mandarin. The 9.3X74R socket non-percussion cap (primer pocket flash hole) presenting the advantage of withdrawing without making the (it a) piston as it would by a full, (full, continuous, unbroken) mandrel. This will have the effect of inhaling (lit.) and therefore, deform the bottom of the holder paper.
4. Let it dry and go on to making the next holder.


2. LOADING THE POWDER

5. Each cap and ball marksman has his own favorite powder and loading method and there is no reason to load what is marketed. As far as I am concerned, I load my cartridges with 0.95 grams of PNF1. Furthermore, what counts, as you will see, is to get the optimum length, (life) out of a cartridge, and this, strictly speaking, applies to the whole batch.

6. Put over the powder a little disc, to separate it from the wad that is to come. This disc will be cut with the aid of a 10 mm punch out of approximately 1 mm thick cardboard, (calendar, or beer case).
Use the little hand-drill for its positioning. (See photo). Screw on loosely over the disc, without crossing, (forcing); everything should slip down the tube; once you made contact with the powder, unscrew and withdraw the drill; the tube, (tower) should be loose, (have play, or the turn is played???).

If the holder is correctly twisted around the mandarin, without slack during the preparation, the 10 mm disc will descend with nice, (great/good) friction.

(8 to 11) In order to secure the cardboard disc and compact the assembly tightly, we will use the mandarin as a stuffer.

3. WADDING

The wadding will be, of common sandstone, (stoneware—grès) made of fine semolina or felt. The height should be about 5 mm.

7). In case of a felt wad, or several cardboard wads, use the drill and mandrel as in step 2. The gas pressure will load itself to compress them sufficiently to attain the barrel diameter

4. POSITIONING THE BULLET

In a 1860 Colt (Uberti) and in a 1858 Remington (Euroarms) I use a .451 bullet. In a Rogers and Spencer (Euroarms), a .454 bullet. In this last diameter the bullet is a little too fragile in descending, because the friction is greater in the partitions of the holder. It takes more practice in loading it. The principle of positioning is illustrated on the previous page.

5. COMPLETED CARTRIDGE

Our cartridge is getting there, now, but we must still refine it. All the same, check is length. This should be 34 to 35 mm. Evidently, this dimension should be refined for each weapon, but it should suffice for all and be compatible with the barrels, (cylinders) of the 1860 Army Colt, 1858 Remington, Rogers and Spencer.

Once the cartridge is driven back, (forced back) into the chamber, the bullet should retract about 2 mm from the edge ahead, (before, in front) of the cylinder. After a few tests, each will adapt to the length of the cartridge to the respective weapon.
Next, get on to the greasing operation. As far as I’m concerned, I use a historical mix: tallow, (75%) and yellow beeswax, (25%) melted in a double-boiler, in which I (lit. “throw/soak”) the bullet and only to a little more than its diameter.

AND NOW, WE SHOOT WHEN?

Evidently, your cartridges are so beautiful, you will love them, and will want to sit up late and curl up in a corner by the fire; you will have only one desire: to be in plain view of those who charge their barrels from behind!

Very well, then, let’s keep going! And you will see that after a little practice you will load your barrel almost once and a half faster than they do. Therefore, you must insert every cartridge in a barrel chamber even those who’s bullets arrive in support of the chamber’s boundaries (sit on top). Then place the cartridge under (lit. on) the ram (lit. wadding), push (lit. wad) gently, (moderately) and steadily throughout. You have to prime again but with a flexible (lit, adaptable) primer; you will gain a little more time this way, (our Northern Colonel had one). It is useless to grease the barrel ahead of time, as the cartridge is perfectly waterproof.

A little advise: before you prime, insert a fine pin into each funnel in order to puncture, (burst, break) the bottom of the cartridge. Without being indispensable, this improves the firing adjustment. This happens, because the more powerful primers render this pinning useless.

AND THEN?

Sadly, some residue of cigarette-paper remains in the chamber, but I recommend to blow well into each chamber to clear them before reloading. As a result, the carefully made cartridges give as good a result as the classical ones, charged without any care. On the contrary, the cartridges assembled in hell give the result of a classical sloppy charge.

The firing of 13 cartridges to a target was against being realized on January 23, 2005, off-hand (lit. with open arms) at 25 m, with a 1858 Remington, in a snow-storm , in order not to put out a Confederate. (??? I have no idea what this means, sorry!).
__________________
www.reloadingandlevergunning.blogspot.com
Cheers
Duncan

 

[stevenb]

Duncan, I posted those pics over on www.leverguns.com forum and another forum members wife translated that. SO the credit goes to her. I am new here but have been reading all the info I can get my hands on for cap and ball pistols. I have much info saved from you, Gatofeo, Mecc, Old fluff, the list goes on. I have a Pietta 1860 Army on the way and cant wait to try it out. I feel as though I'm hooked and dont even have it in my hands yet. I have already casted some round balls and plan on making those lubricated wads per Gatofeo instructions. Anyway thought I would introduce my self as I'm normally hanging over at the leverguns.com forum. Hope to learn something here and maybe have something to contribute my self. ....Steve.

P.S., does anyone know how to get an avatar under your username? I have looked but cant find the option.Thanks.....Steve.

 

[P95Carry]

P.S., does anyone know how to get an avatar under your username? I have looked but cant find the option.Thanks.....Steve.

Steve - avatars are not enabled on THR - thus why you won't see any here

 

[The Deer Hunter]

Can you use that for rifles too?

 

[cdm15]

paper

Maybe this is a dum question, but does the paper jam-up with the ball on the way out or effect the ball at all? My colt repo would be hard to see down the cylinder for reminents, with out taking the cylinder off. Does this paper counter act the bore-butter? Is there no need for a wad if you get a good shaving on the ball? Don-

 

[Desert Scorpion]

I have been shootin BP GUNS for a while and didnt even know that you could paper your lead and powder. Were can I get this rolling paper, give me a web site and a recommendation on what paper to use. Thanks

 

[Yankee John]

Des Scorp- If you live in the USA, just about every gas station or grocery store sells cigarette papers. Just go to the counter that sells cigarettes.

I have the best results with Zig-Zag brand papers. They are cheap too!


John

 

[dstorm1911]

been doing these for years, but with one small change. For those concerned about chainfires etc... add 5 grns of cream of wheat under the ball plus this places the ball higher in the chamber. I load 32 grns of 3F goex my Lyman and Euroarms 1858s will take a total 45 grns of 3F so with 32 grns powder + 5 grns of CW it sets the ball about 3/16" into the chamber or right at the end of the rammers stroke

Works great and never any misfires, here in Arizona grease doesn't work out very well it last a few seconds then just runs outa the cylenders. Instead I'll put some bore butter in 3 chambers in front of the balls when I first start shooting it keeps the gun well lubed for 60 rnds or so then do it again when I start to feel any stiffness in the action etc..

when compressed the cream of wheat makes a wad that combined with the tight fitting (shaved ring) .545 balls prevents any chainfire

 

[CLB]

Filler amount

I've noticed from some of the pictures previously posted that most have a filler added above their powder beneath the bullet. Some look to be almost equal to the powder charge in volume. Is there some reason for this? I've been shooting my Remington '58 for a few years now and I've always loaded my powder, a wonder wad (felt wad permeated with lube) then the ball. The wad protects against chain fires. Is all the extra filler I see being used done just to gain a lighter load or for facing the bullet closer to the cylinder face?

 

[Duncaninfrance]

Is all the extra filler I see being used done just to gain a lighter load or for facing the bullet closer to the cylinder face?

With the cartridge idea you are still going to have to ram the ball and there is the chance that the powder/wad would distort and so not compress in the chamber, leaving a void and thus a hang or misfire. By adding filler you reduce that possibility. That's my thoughts not a statement of pure fact

I have found, since making paper cartridges, that there is always some paper left in the chamber and that can be dangerous if it is smoldering so make sure that the chambers are clear BEFORE loading the next 6 cartridges.
I must admit that with my 1858 I now load out of the gun using pre-measured charges and a bench loader it's MUCH quicker

 

[Afy]

Using a compressed air can... like those sold to us geeks for cleaning out the crumbs from the keyboards, is very effective in ensuring that the chanbers are clear of any debris... IMHO.

However those cans arent the cheapest things around here in France....

 

[CLB]

Quicker?!

How can loading your '58 out of the gun on a bench press be quicker than using paper cartridges? Unless you only shoot 6 shots and go home

 

[Duncaninfrance]

SIMPLE

Nothing to tear, no residual paper to remove from the chambers, better access to the chambers, more even pressure on the ball and easier fitting of the caps. Works for me and I shoot 36-54 rounds per range visit

 

[CLB]

Sharps paper cartridge guns

Anyone here have something good to say about the Sharps paper cartridge carbines? I'm wondering if they have too many problems to bother with. I like the idea of a breech loading shooter that doesn't require brass cleaning, priming and resizing or buying. Seems like it can be a low overhead shooter as bullet and powder is about all there is to deal with. Making the paper cartridges would be easy enough to do and the paper is LOT cheaper than brass. I am concerned with the breech leaking that someone says develops after a couple hundred shots. Is the brass insert a solution to this? Mabey a replaceable shim on the bolt face to curtail the corrosion caused by the powder burn? Finally and most important, what is the accuracy expectation? I hope a satisfied user steps up and a disgruntled one too. I like to look at both sides of a coin

 

[Wwalstrom]

Here's My Version:

Here are the materials needed ... note the sharpie marker.

Wrap a rolling paper around the marker shaft. In my case, the papers are gummed, wet the adhesive, and roll tightly around the marker.


Pinch the end hanging over the bullet tip, using 3 fingers. Dab a bit of glue into each depression made by a finger, and then gently twist the end closed.


Once you have a half dozen or so made, the first one should be dry.


Pour in your powder charge, while holding the paper tube by the twisted end. I then drop in a ball, and tamp it down onto the powder with my measure.



Twist off the ball end of the cartridge, with a bit more of glue. When they are dry, I snip off the ball end tail with a scissors, and place the completed cartridges in a plastic ammo box (.45ACP works well).

 

[LubeckTech]

For those wishing a lubricated bullet would it work to dip the bullet in to melted lube pill receipe either full immersion or half way and allow to cool before putting in the cartridge?