Perimeter Security Question

Discussion in 'Strategies, Tactics, and Training' started by marsofold, Jun 28, 2020.

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  1. CDW4ME

    CDW4ME Member

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    Outside dogs versus inside dogs.

    My GSD and Bullmastiff stay inside, if they are outside I am too.
    If one came with intent to break into home while we are gone, two large dogs barking from inside might make them select a different house. Prevention.
    Alarm system and dogs for the win. :thumbup:
     
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  2. Ramone

    Ramone Member

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    How about a wide, muddy drainage ditch?

    And there are a few companies that sell motion activated sprinkles for keeping the deer out of the garden- they wouldn't stop people, but they'd discourage lookyloos.
     
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  3. Jack Ryan

    Jack Ryan Member

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    If they don't know what you've got, they don't ever start wanting to steal it.
     
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  4. CapnMac

    CapnMac Member

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    From the description, and my experience or rural WV, that would be a company in the County Seat, maybe 30-40 miles away, and not an outfit near-to-hand. Please note that the neighbor is a couple miles away. When OP speaks of random vehicles going down his road, he means serious randos.

    To OP, please double check your boundary survey if you have one. Just because the County maintains a road does not mean the County is not in Adverse Possession of your land. A 50' easement can add up to a fair bit of acreage, and there is no reason for you to pay taxes on public property.

    Oh, and you don't have to rely on thorny bushes--bamboo will suffice (you just want 12" steel edging on your side, and let the county gravel be the other edge.
     
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  5. luzyfuerza

    luzyfuerza Member

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    These are simple and really cheap:

    https://www.harborfreight.com/wireless-driveway-alert-system-93068.html

    I've learned to be careful with Harbor Freight chinesium, of course, but this one has worked for me. And the 400 foot range is realistic.

    Just place it at a spot that concentrates foot or vehicle traffic...near things like doors, gates, driveways, etc.

    It doesn't do any good if you're not home, but it is cheap.
     
  6. marsofold

    marsofold Member

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    The road has been here for at least 100 years, claimed by the county, used somewhat by gas well tenders to reach gas wells in the neighboring woods, so I doubt that I can prevent it from continuing to exist. An outside dog is a possible, but because of the local chiggers, ticks, and fleas do not want a dog indoors. Chiggers are really bad things. Lights are a definite, as are electronic alarms/cameras. Got to think over the fencing options. May fence in 1/2 acre around the house if I can make it look good for the wife. 4-1/2 foot broken-glass topped stone wall (expensive!) would most appeal to me while the wife probbably would prefer a thorny hedge.
     
  7. Jack Ryan

    Jack Ryan Member

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    That would make good cover to get up close and plink at the house. Especially if the house is lit up all night.
     
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  8. Jack Ryan

    Jack Ryan Member

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    Don't know that this would ever be useful but it didn't cost much. On every tree in my yard I'd got those little light tac trail markers about waist high on the side facing the house. At pitch black night I can just turn on the porch light and see every single thing in the yard any one would think they want to hide behind. If I decided to make it so, those trees could become pretty dangerous things to be around in the middle of the night.

    From the house a good load of buck shot might hit BOTH sides of most of those trees with even just one shot.

    If you've ever noticed people like to put big concrete ornamental things at the end of their drive way for gates and such. Most times they are square posts with fancy toppings.

    If you think about it there are a lot better ways to do that so those are not such good cover to hide behind. Make those round instead of square and it is pretty easy to bounce buck shot off one to hit stuff behind the other and make the "ornaments" sloped in shape like a planter or something that would splatter DOWN after it is hit.

    Ya just never know AND most people are never going to notice it is any different than what every one else does, unless there is a reason to be shooting at them.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2020
  9. CapnMac

    CapnMac Member

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    Well, that does represent Notorious and Constant occupancy, yes.

    My point was not in moving the road, that's really off the table. My point was in establishing a true property line that defines the road as public property and not your property.

    Right now, as it stands, the Right-of-Way is notational. How far off the edge of the road is actually trespassing on your land? How wide is the ROW?

    Also, unless that Right-of-Way is defined, you are paying property taxes on property being "occupied" by the County as a squatter.

    Dumb part of it is you need a Survey that has permanent markers--like driven iron rods--for references, and a division of the property into three tracts (typically referred to as "Lots"): One to one side of the road; the road itself; and the remainder. You then use either a Civil Engineer and/or a RE lawyer and those submit a "Replat" to the County. Technically the County owes you for the land you cannot use because they occupy it. Sadly, most Counties are only going to offer about half fair market value for the land. If you are lucky, this will pay your professional fees incurred, and you no longer pay taxes for somebody else's property.

    These things have ramifications. Say you saw a pheasant across the road--it's on your property; but most places make it illegal to shoot over a ROW. Well, is it an ROW, and what are its extents. Suppose you want to put in a backstop for some backyard load development. All sorts of regs on how close to structure, roads and the like.
     
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  10. Jack Ryan

    Jack Ryan Member

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    ALL of that can be answered by looking at the land owners deed. I would NOT do any thing to attract the attention of any one in the county courthouse.

    Decide for yourself what you WANT to do and then do it before any one any where has any opportunity to object.
     
  11. Charlie Martinez

    Charlie Martinez Member

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    I have a good friend that owns a home alarm business. He told me that 90% of the alarms he installs are in homes that were recently burglarized. He also told me that many of the burglarized homes had counted on dogs for protection & that the dogs had been poisoned, shot or clubbed so severely that they cowered in a corner whenever he (a stranger) walked near them. He says that sometimes all they have to do is open the fence gate & wait for the dogs to run off to roam around the neighborhood.
    I'm not saying that dogs & fences don't help but if you are really concerned your best option is a good alarm system monitored so if the alarm is tripped & the homeowner does not respond the police are immediately called.
     
  12. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    For reasons discussed a number of times in several threads here, a wall topped with broken glass would not be a prudent choice.
     
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  13. bearcreek

    bearcreek Member

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    I wonder if some of the posters here realize what kind of place the OP is talking about. My wife's family is from rural West Virginia and I have several friends there. In many areas like that described in the OP, police response times are measured in hours, or even a day or more in some cases. Alarm systems that automatically alert the police are non existent in many cases at least partly because the sheriff's department isn't going to drive hours just to check on a house whose alarm may or may not have been tripped accidentally. The OP is welcome to correct me of course if this doesn't apply in his case, but that is fairly typical of much of rural West Virginia.
     
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  14. marsofold

    marsofold Member

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    You are absolutely correct. There is no mail delivery, no snow removal, and no cell phone service for about 16 miles in any direction. We literally had to photograph and email a pic of the power meter to get the electricity company to turn the power on (they didn't believe that anyone was actually out here). A bit like the banjo kid's place in the movie Deliverance. The woods north of me goes 6 miles deep before meeting a paved road. Bears and coyotes here. We are kinda on our own. The only police here is the county sheriff. Wife is a devout Mennonite and will not touch a gun. So for her sake security is a concern to me.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2020
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  15. Meeks36

    Meeks36 Member

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    Had that happen at our old home. Everyone was gone one fine afternoon. Some big dude came beating in the door. My wife was home with our kids. She told me he was hitting the door hard trying to force his way in. When our Australian Shepherd/chow mix ran to the door. The guy took off. He's 60lbs and has a lot of fur so he looks bigger than he is. But alas he's getting up in age. 13 already taking 2 pain meds. We are looking at getting a German Shepherd.
     
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  16. CDW4ME

    CDW4ME Member

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    A German Shepherd is a great choice, as long as you don't mind shedding; mine apparently tries to clone himself.
    GSD is ranked as one of the top breeds (#3) for intelligence, but this ranking (opinion of dog trainers/judges) is tied to obedience.
    https://www.dogbreedslist.info/smartest-dog-breeds/
    (My English Bulldog says that ^ ranking is crap - LOL - He is not dumb, but he is stubborn)
    IMO the more stubborn a breed tends to be, the lower its ranked for intelligence.

    My GSD is not stubborn, he is eager and high energy (likes to do something).
    Bullmastiff is not high energy, can be stubborn, it is not going to fetch a ball, but sheds very little.
    I don't think that my GSD is necessarily smarter than my Bullmastiff, but he is more willing.

    The same person who ranked dogs on intelligence also ranked them for security work:
    dogranking.jpg

    At less than 1.5 year old, my Bullmastiff is a lean very solid 133# - I can see how he might make the top of that list if aroused.
    GSD is also ranked highly on that list as well.
     
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  17. Meeks36

    Meeks36 Member

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    We want a breed that is loyal, protective, train able, and medium-large. And GSD fit the bill perfectly. There are other breeds that fit the role sure. But when someone comes knocking. And DJ (digger junior) starts for the door. We want his or her bark to be terrifying to ne'er-do-wells. Our older dog is named digger so next one will be DJ in his honour.
     
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  18. lemaymiami

    lemaymiami Member

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    For those considering a breed for home defense please also consider what part of the country your dog will operate in.... Down here in south Florida a great breed, like a Rottweiler is terribly handicapped by the heat.. A Belgian Malinois is much better suited for a hot climate. All of my experience comes from police work though -not in a home pet situation... not for nothing I’ve heard some refer to the Malinois as a “malligator” ...

    I’ve also seen one of my dog handlers have to carry a Rotty back to an air conditioned vehicle after less than half an hour’s work with a foot of tongue hanging out. Climate is important...
     
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  19. jmorris

    jmorris Member

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    For hunting hogs I have used some game radios I made. If motion occurs, they power up the keyed up radio and play back the message I left on the digital voice recorder as to location.

    C5FEEF69-D0C7-4EE3-928D-41C8D519F6C7.jpeg F6FCCA03-6C77-48DC-9D2B-31BBBE731938.jpeg

    I have used them up to around two miles, as a crow flys but had to run an antenna up a 20ft pvc pipe on a T post.

    These days the drive way alerts are easy to buy and allow for multiple channels, and if you have direct line of sight, these work OK to 100 yards or so. When it starts beeping the dog gets up to go see what’s out there.

    http://www.skylinkstore.com/store/us/us-alert-system/household-long-range-alert-series/kits/motion-alert-kit.html

    If you have WiFi and a cell phone, these are pretty neat.

    https://wyze.com/wyze-cam-pan.html

    They do not use IR to sense motion so don’t have the mounting considerations to prevent false triggers, they can also be set through the app to pan and scan a certain range from 360 degrees and down at whatever speed you choose. They are both audio and video as well as allow you to speak from them. The app will send you a video of you pulling in the driveway before you get to the garage.

    None of the above have any reoccurring costs (no monthly fees).
     
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  20. Charlie Martinez

    Charlie Martinez Member

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    I have never met a dog I didn't like but some are definitely better than others for security work.
    I am currently raising my first German Shepherd. He is now 4.5 months old & he is already a good watchdog but he does not like the heat. We are having a bad heat spell and he definitely feels it. I've also had Dobermans & Rottweilers as well as some small & mix breed dogs. It's too early to declare a verdict on my young German Shepherd but leaving him out of the mix I have to say that my Dobermans may have been the best security dogs I've had.
    There are many fine dogs that are willing to give their all to protect their home & family. However regardless of how good a dog is at watching over a property dogs are a warning & a deterrent but they should not be counted on to fight off a determined intruder.
    Even big strong dogs like mastiffs are no match for the intelligence & technology of well prepared & determined humans & it is not fair to expect them to fight off trespassers.
    In my house my dogs warn me. After that it's my job to grab my weapon & do the rest.
     
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  21. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    Senor Martinez, if I may call you that, I really like that post.

    I am a dog guy.
     
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  22. Charlie Martinez

    Charlie Martinez Member

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    Thank you
     
  23. rbernie
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    rbernie Contributing Member

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    I believe this to be true, which is why we have three (3) terriers. They are *excellent* alarms, and three smaller dogs have less footprint than one large dog while providing inherent redundancy. The fact that they also fit in my wife's lap is simply a bonus. :)
     
  24. scaatylobo

    scaatylobo Member

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    I too agree, my dogs are my family & friends.

    I would not expect either to solve a problem that is my venue.

    I might lose my temper if my 'family' were harmed !.

    Better I handle an issue !.
     
  25. JJFitch

    JJFitch Member

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    I have read all of the preceding posts lots of good suggestions only you can decide what makes sense.

    Our situation is similar to yours except for the amount of traffic!

    Consider:
    Fencing the nearest couple of acres. Ours is 5 Ft. chain link and not that intrusive. The space is easy to take care of and to keep track of the dogs! With minimal landscaping we can't see the fencing out the back, just trees!

    The problem with alarms is getting help after the fact! There is a lot of new technology with security lights, motion detectors and live streaming video for more real time activity! Private security may be an option too.

    Check with your local Sheriff's department to see if they have recommendations for your situation. They can also provide crime stats for your area.

    Home security falls into the "there is no one size fits all" category.

    Smiles,
     
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