Pistol Brace Amnesty

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by SharpDog, Sep 11, 2022.

  1. Balrog

    Balrog Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2008
    Messages:
    2,894
    Another option would be put a 16" upper on it, right?
     
  2. 12Bravo20

    12Bravo20 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2007
    Messages:
    4,533
    Location:
    Missouri
    Here are your options on what to do with a braced pistol if/when the rule change goes into effect.

    https://www.federalregister.gov/d/2021-12176/p-87

    This information has been posted several times on The High Road in multiple threads.

    As far as the amnesty thing goes. For now all we know is that the ATF has asked for funding. I don't think anyone has seen where this is a 100% sure thing that is going to happen.

    We need to wait for the rule change and amnesty to be released before we know exactly what is going on.
     
    Demi-human and Spats McGee like this.
  3. DoubleMag

    DoubleMag Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2011
    Messages:
    1,505
    SharpDog said:
    the ramifications of the BATF pistol brace amnesty period, I am wondering what to do if I (potentially) have a braced AR pistol:

    ''If U bought it from an FFL assembled that way (ed: that is, with a brace attached) your choices become narrower and this is how I understand it. 1-install a 16'' barrel, 2-register it 3-destroy it per ATF rules. And there are other things linked with the next post...''

    That (* ^)would seem to be not true as per the ATF document provided here (below)....

    And also as published verbatim in a Senatorial letter attachment...
    https://www.kennedy.senate.gov/public/_cache/files/4/c/4cdcdd21-10a2-459a-8e26-9a517e70443a/33AC8BDD36B011FDAF740B077282C558.letter-to-ag-and-acting-dirctor-of-atf-6.24.2021.pdf ,

    specifically, pg2 para #4;

    ''...and later added
    one, ATF will permit them to destroy their pistol braces (but not if the gun owners purchased the firearms
    already equipped with braces
    ). Or they can...''

    IF, the letter refers to a brace is in fact a stock, which IS the ATFs position for101 of 100 people who own them. In any event, the Senators of which are all attorneys didn't pull their portion of letter out of thin air.

    So it does seem that a braced AR pistol purchased manufactured as so e.g. through an FFL , that particular owner cannot simply remove the brace, destroy it and be in compliance.

    FORTUNATELY, this will all be hashed out in court soon !
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2022
    qwert65 and SharpDog like this.
  4. Mark_Mark
    • Contributing Member

    Mark_Mark Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2021
    Messages:
    10,440
    I’m bring back the late 90’s $15 people!!! Good Enough too

    6C8BD5BB-4EE0-4471-9A2E-E77DFC8E7127.jpeg
     
    BreechFace likes this.
  5. citizenconn

    citizenconn Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2022
    Messages:
    863
    Location:
    Houston-ish, TX
    :barf:
    Gag me with a spoon!
     
    Mark_Mark likes this.
  6. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2015
    Messages:
    25,112
    If OAL includes the brace, then with a collapsible brace at maximum extension wouldn't the firearm be over 26" in OAL even with a very short barrel?
     
  7. 230RN
    • Contributing Member

    230RN I keep pushing that pendulum back.

    Joined:
    May 27, 2006
    Messages:
    7,546
    Location:
    Colorado
    How can they "waive" a fee which was established legislatively?

    Didn't some piddly-dinky Agency recently get spanked for doing something like that?

    I'm not signing this one so nobody will know who posted it.
     
  8. 12Bravo20

    12Bravo20 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2007
    Messages:
    4,533
    Location:
    Missouri

    If you read the entire worksheet and the proposed rule change along with older letters, an AR pistol is measured from the end of the buffer tube to the end of the muzzle ( unless muzzle device is permanently attached)

    The ATF has already determined that folders are measured in the folded position when attached to pistols with braces. They went after people with AR’s (both with and without braces) that were over 26” OAL with a folder AND a VFG. The ATF determined that with the folder folded those were now under 26” and were unregistered AOW’s
     
  9. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2015
    Messages:
    25,112
    Not folders, a normal adjustable brace like the SBA3. But measuring till the end of the buffer tube sounds like the brace would not be considered part of the OAL, is that correct?
     
  10. 12Bravo20

    12Bravo20 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2007
    Messages:
    4,533
    Location:
    Missouri
    Correct, a brace is not included in the OAL

    In section 1 of the Worksheet 4999 under explanations

    And from the top of the 4999

     
    DoubleMag likes this.
  11. 230RN
    • Contributing Member

    230RN I keep pushing that pendulum back.

    Joined:
    May 27, 2006
    Messages:
    7,546
    Location:
    Colorado
    I can't help thinking that by now, the entire agency is an infringement in and of itself. However, we do have to operate under the law and the attendant "regulations" authorized by statute.

    12Bravo20, I appreciate your efforts, expertise, and attempts to tie it all together into a logical whole, but at root, it all boils down to the single word "infringed." This was added to the Constitution in order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of the government's powers.

    This agency, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, is an abuse.

    Terry
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2022
  12. 12Bravo20

    12Bravo20 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2007
    Messages:
    4,533
    Location:
    Missouri
    Thank you and yes I agree that this is infringement.

    As usual, the ATF has made things clear a mud yet again. And you can do everything possible to meet the rule changes and they can still say you have an unregistered SBR if they feel like it.
     
  13. Spats McGee

    Spats McGee Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2012
    Messages:
    6,422
    Location:
    Arkansas
    This is the part that gives me heartburn. If I had a braced AR pistol, there's absolutely no way I'd send pics to the BATFE, knowing that they could simply decide, "Nope. You have an unregistered SBR. Thanks for the evidence."

    12Bravo20, I want to echo 230RN's sentiment. You've obviously spent quite a bit of time and energy sorting this thing out, and you've done us all a great service in that. Thank you.
     
  14. 12Bravo20

    12Bravo20 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2007
    Messages:
    4,533
    Location:
    Missouri
    Thank you @Spats McGee


    Another thing that bothers me about the worksheet is when they take about different sights not being usable at arms length. I especially disagree with them saying that the standard AR/M16 iron sights are not usable. I have no problems using A2 sights at arms length on my 9mm Colt SMG clone. And I wear bifocals too.
     
    DoubleMag, SharpDog, 230RN and 2 others like this.
  15. 230RN
    • Contributing Member

    230RN I keep pushing that pendulum back.

    Joined:
    May 27, 2006
    Messages:
    7,546
    Location:
    Colorado
    Straw-grasping. My crystal ball shows a guy at one of their staff meetings exclaiming that those sights are unusable at arm's length and everyone chiming in with "Right on, JB!" "Good going !" "Excellent point, JB !"
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2022
    Mark_Mark likes this.
  16. SharpDog

    SharpDog Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2006
    Messages:
    3,141
    Location:
    Tennessee
    More from the OP:

     
    old lady new shooter likes this.
  17. Mike OTDP

    Mike OTDP Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2007
    Messages:
    2,219
    Location:
    Somewhere in Maryland
    NFA'34 includes the authority to declare an amnesty. That's how they will do it. ATF will take the position that arm braces were incorrectly approved, and that any firearm so fitted must either be stripped of the brace or registered as an SBR. To evade some of the inevitable lawsuits, they would use the amnesty power to allow no-cost SBR registration.
     
    230RN likes this.
  18. Casefull

    Casefull Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2009
    Messages:
    1,652
    Location:
    Sawtooths
    Why would anybody in their right mind contact ATF about anything whatsoever.
     
    230RN and SharpDog like this.
  19. N555

    N555 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2022
    Messages:
    1,116
    Location:
    New Mexico and Texas panhandle
    I'll be shocked if this isn't a trap.
    I think what they are going to do is take their little form 4999 or what ever they call it, use the pictures and descriptions on the new amnesty form1 to say something to the effect of "you never had a braced pistol, you illegally built/bought an SBR, pay $200 or surrender it or else" for a large portion of amnesty applications. Once you send them all the information I have a feeling they're not just going to let you put a 16 barrel on it turning it into a rifle or replace the brace setup with a slick tube and forget the whole ordeal. Maybe I'm wrong, I hope I'm wrong, but I got a bad feeling. If I'm wrong this is a great way to get a free gateway NFA item.

    Either way I think this is a great way to get millions of people who never heard of the NFA to start demanding it's abloshment.

    If they just want to cut a whole lot of tax stamps to people screaming "shut up and take my money" all they would have to do is reinterpret the Hughes ammendment to say something else.
     
  20. SC45-70

    SC45-70 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2013
    Messages:
    287
    Location:
    Minnesota
    They ask for a photograph of the firearm.
    Since the LOWER on an AR type gun is the firearm.
    What happens if you send them a photograph of the braced lower with out the upper?

    Again asking for a friend
    SC45-70
     
    SharpDog and 230RN like this.
  21. Mark_Mark
    • Contributing Member

    Mark_Mark Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2021
    Messages:
    10,440
    Bro, don’t play around with the AFT… they not your joking buddies, they hate gun owners and are obedient to the supreme leader
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2022
    theotherwaldo, 230RN and Bfh_auto like this.
  22. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2015
    Messages:
    25,112
    Still wondering whether even with waiving the $200 there will still be a long period during which the owner is not allowed to use the firearm as with a normal NFA application.
     
    DoubleMag likes this.
  23. DoubleMag

    DoubleMag Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2011
    Messages:
    1,505
    I'd say ask that one during the amnesty period.
    Speaking of amnesty, I'd say be more concerned of THIS admin's super-quickness to, ''redefine'' what is a known item to...what is convenient/ politically expedient for & at the moment.
    So, amnesty does exist within the law or rules, but, voila, we CHANGED the meaning to XYZ, and, you're in violations. Again.

    FACT BASED SOURCE: that's what this whole thing is about! They originally said ''its Ok we examined it etc.'' then again & again, now yelln FUNZIES
     
  24. jmorris

    jmorris Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2005
    Messages:
    20,773
    I would think if they say, “well, a brace is not a stock.”, would that not blow away their entire argument for putting them into the NFA branch?
     
  25. N555

    N555 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2022
    Messages:
    1,116
    Location:
    New Mexico and Texas panhandle
    Unless they change a law once it's an SBR it's an SBR, throw a real stock on that bad boy. If I remember correctly you just have to be able to return it to "as registered configuration", for example I registered my first NFA item back in 2007, a sawed off shotgun with a pistol grip. Well the pistol grip is useless so I put the full wood stock on there, much better. I didn't know I could put a range of OAL measurements on the form1 back then. Now I have to keep the pistol grip forever.
    Are they really going to make braced AR pistols their own extra special type of SBR where you can only put a pistol brace on them? Yes oh yes please do it.
    There's really no way this ends well for the NFA.
     
    usaral63 and SharpDog like this.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice