Pocket Autos - Needs to be Unlimpwristable

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smhbbag1

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I have been spoiled by full-size guns that are not sensitive to limp-wristing, and so has my wife. My understanding is that as semi-autos get smaller, that feature goes away.

We need a daily carry gun for her. She/We have no problems whatsoever under controlled range conditions with limp-wristing. With run-and-gun or FOF drills, occasionally it has been a problem with the pocket pistols, because of awkward firing positions.

So here's the NEED (not a want):

A pocket auto that simply cannot be limp-wristed. We have no idea when/where/how my wife or I may need our weapons, and I think any gun that is even capable of being limp-wristed is completely unacceptable for carry.

I want a pocket auto that will function like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jh9JhCyFFxA
 
Then I wouldn't buy a pocket auto.
What you want is a gun that runs 110% of the time.......no such gun.
A S&W revolver would be your best bet.
YMMV
 
Not only do you want a polkadot unicorn, but you want it broke to drive, too. You do need to contribute something to the whole shootability mix. If your wrists/grip isn't up to a pocket auto, stick with revolvers.
 
You do need to contribute something to the whole shootability mix. If your wrists/grip isn't up to a pocket auto, stick with revolvers.
Click to expand...

You're not getting it. You can take a 6'5, 250 lb. special forces nightmare of a man who is brilliantly trained, and he may limp-wrist a gun in a fight without it being his fault at all. Unlikely? Yeah, but by carrying at all we are being prepared for 'unlikely.'

I can't "stick with revolvers" because I don't have any. We are considering one for the wife, for this very reason. Many full-size semi-autos fill this requirement.

But she would prefer a semi-auto, and thus the question: do any pocket-autos meet this criteria?

If the answer is 'no,' you can say 'no.'

My wife's grip/wrists are up to a semi-auto just fine, and so are mine, as I have already clearly stated. There are times and situations possible where your training/ability doesn't matter, and I think the gun should keep firing anyway, even if I'm not able to get a good grip and strength behind the gun because of the defensive scenario.

We've been to the moon....can we not make a small semi-auto that will cycle regardless of the support given to it?
 
Well put yeti.....the answer is NO.

It appears the video shows you what you think you need/want. Will that trick work every time? I doubt it. If limp-wristing is that big of a concern, then stick with a revolver.
 
No. The springs need to be strong enough to not allow the slide to batter the frame to pieces because of the shorter amount of space the slide can recoil. The stronger springs need more resistance to properly work (i.e. a stronger wrist) than does a larger framed gun.
 
To the degree that limpwristing may be an issue, I think that the most likely circumstances under which it might occur are when one is forced to shoot one-handed, or with the weak hand, or when they have suffered a wound that affects the arms, wrists or hands.

Under these conditions a pistol is required to fully cycle the slide to extract, eject and chamber another round. Smaller pistols have lighter slides, shorter recoil spring tunnels, and often more complecated recoil spring systems.

Within my personal experience the most reliable pocket (?) pistol I ever owned was an old Colt .32 model 1903, but I can understand if you didn't see it as a solution.

For the above reasons I have prefered revolvers over pistols when it came to smaller sized handguns. Regardless of circumstances, I've never known of a limpwristing malfuction occuring in a wheelgun, as they are totally independent of being ammunition or recoil dependent to function.

That said, If I was to pick a modern pistol it would be a SIG .380 model P-230.
 
What caliber are you looking at? If you're looking at something like a .380, you should choose a gun that is an inline blowback. That is, the barrel is fixed and the recoil spring is mounted on the barrel. That is opposed to a stacked blowback such as a 1911 or most other large autos with the spring mounted below the barrel. Inline blowbacks have the barrel mounted lower, and recoil directly back into the heel of your hand so they have much less leverage and muzzle flip. The inline design also ensures that the recoil is directed directly into the spring. Effectively, these guns should be utterly impossible to limp wrist.

If you're looking for something like this, I would recommend military pistols, such as the Makarov or the Polish P-64. The 9x18 round is slightly more powerful than the .380, and the guns are extremely concealable and reliable.
 
Let her shoot a P3AT. She won't want a "pocket auto" anymore. (I just pulled the factory 11# springs out of mine and replaced them with 16# to try to tame it)

Actually, a .32 might be OK, but the recoil of a .380 in an 8 ounce gun is just *nasty*.

Is anything still chambered in .30 Luger? That's a nice little cartridge.
 
I didn't find my LCP *Nasty* to shoot at all, and the only time I've ever seen a limpwristing failure, was shooting a G19 with target ammo. If defensive ammo is used, there should be recoil to spare, to keep from shortstroking.
 
my wife is an excellent shooter with her XD9 4" service but has issues and has to work to NOT induce a problem with her PF9 To the point I'm probably going to buy her a G26,27 or khar PM9 to replace it ASAP...in the mean time we mover her down to non-+p 124gr HP and added KT addons and a hogue rubber grip. The P3AT was still not likable to her but she didn't have a function issue with what little she shot in...I'd say a 642 airweight S&W revolver or a sub-compact Glock or Khar PM9 would be your best bet...I carried the PF9 a while (we both had em) but pocket carry just doesn't work realistically well enough for me...I'm in a higher risk line or work for needing a real gun in a real caliber that I can get to realistically...so I'm back to a G23 (sometimes 21) in a strongside pancake holster under my shirt. Crossbreed supertuck when deeper concealment is needed (after-hours)
 
The LCP is 2 ounces heavier than a P3AT isn't it? That might be enough help.
If defensive ammo is used, there should be recoil to spare, to keep from shortstroking.
Click to expand...
Even with the 16# springs it still throws the brass almost into orbit. (with the 11# springs, I swear some of the empties never came back down)
 
I agree that the smaller caliber semi-auto's will require less attention to the "limp wristing" component. But, all semi-auto guns need support. The necessary support should be able to be given by any person of average grip strength. I wouldn't worry so much about being limp wrist tolerant as I would just learning to shoot that particular firearm well. Select a caliber she feels comfortable shooting and the rest is solved with practice. I purchased a Bersa .380 for my 22 year old daughter just recently. She can, and has shot my 45 ACP, and 10MM. She shoots the 380 very well. Good luck in your search.
 
(I just pulled the factory 11# springs out of mine and replaced them with 16# to try to tame it)
Click to expand...
I do believe a heavier spring will increase felt recoil, but may tame some flip. As far as 2oz helping with recoil, in an identical platform.....:scrutiny: I was shooting S&B ball ammo, not SD stuff, but recoil was not bad. Orbiting brass is right! I shot a mag full as fast as I could, and was empty before any of it came down:D All shots were on my paper plate at 21',too:) The LCP is the best shooting mouse gun I ever shot!
 
Unless my understanding of physics is all wrong (which is quite possible...), I'd think a locked breech .380 would be far superior to a blowback design as far as limp-wristing goes.

So, look at a Sig P238 or find a used Colt Mustang.
 
KodiakBeer, not really, because stacked blowback / locked breech designs have more rotational leverage due to the barrel's positioning on top of the spring, so they're more prone in the first place to muzzle flip and limp wristing. Their locking breech also delays the blowback, resulting in energy being lost into the frame and hand of the wielder (or lost entirely in the case of limp wristing). Energy transfers outside of the pistol prior to blowback. In a direct blowback pistol, ALL energy is directed straight into the slide, and the lower barrel means less muzzle flip. These guns should cycle even if fired on a lanyard.
 
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Even with larger but still pocketable pistols like the Kahr PM9, there simply isn't much of them to hold on to, with a two-finger grip at most; some only allow a one-finger grip. I would not personally want a little .380 or .32 as my only armament anyway unless there is no other choice. As a second/backup gun they are fine. Read this story and ask yourself if a tiny pocket pistol is what you really want.
 
That's the other reason to have an inline blowback: size and comfort. The inline blowbacks have a lower slide height, which leaves more space for a proper grip while still keeping the gun compact. Locking breech / stacked blowback dramatically increases the bulk of these smaller guns, with no real benefits.
 
It's already been said quite well by other members, but I'll repeat it. What you're looking for does't exist. I love semi autos, and I have a bunch of reliable ones, but the only thing I know with 100% certainty is that each of them ARE going to malfunction, sooner or later, and probably at the worst possible time. The light weight pocket versions that are harder to get a grip on are probably more likely to hi-cup than the others too.

If stone cold reilability is what you're after? The answer is Revolver. Consider getting her a light weight (15 oz or less) DAO snub nose.
 
I've never had a malf of any kind with my Mustang through thousands of rounds. The next time I shoot, I'll try to get a limp wrist failure as shown in the video. We'll see...
 
Go heavy. The mass (or lack thereof) of the frame is what causes the Glock 'limpwristing' failures. With smaller semiautos such as the Kahr PM guns, I suspect you could run into the same thing. I don't recall ever hearing of P32/P3AT/LCP limpwristing problems. All steel guns such as the PPK/Mak/Kahr Mk series or the Colt 1903/08 should do better in this regard, as should the NAA semi's. But be aware that these guns are going to weigh in the neighborhood of 24 ounces or about the same as a Ruger SP101.
 
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