Pistols that are less susceptible to limp-wrist malfunctions?

[ShadyGrove]

I've primary been a revolver user in the past. Usually milder calibers like .38 special. As a result my grip/arm stance is pretty relaxed overall. I'm used to shooting with my elbows bent slightly to allow the gun to "roll" with the recoil. I like this method because the recoil seems to be mostly absorbed by your arms and is less jarring overall.

When I watch youtube videos of people shooting semi autos, they usually have both arms fully outstretched and locked. I guess this type of "locked out" stance is necessary to avoid limp wrist malfunctions on lighter polymer-framed guns? Seems to be effective, but yet counter intuitive to how I am used to shooting.

With that said, I would like to get more into semi-auto pistol shooting. My only foray into the world of semi auto pistols was a Ruger SR9 years ago. Nice gun, but I would frequently get malfunctions and i'm pretty sure my shooting style had something to do with it. I traded-in the gun and kept shooting my revolver.

I realize now that a lighter weight, polymer-framed gun was probably a poor choice for my shooting style. I guess my question is, are there certain types of pistols that are less sensitive to limp wrist malfunctions, are are more forgiving of a relaxed grip/arm stance?

Would a heavy all-metal gun be a good choice? (Beretta 92, 1911, etc.)

Thanks!

 

[Jim Watson]

Jeff Cooper advocated the Weaver Stance with bent elbows to cushion recoil, I don't think he had malfunctions from his 1911s. But bear in mind that Jack Weaver was a revolver shooter.

I do not have malfunctions while shooting my 1911s Strong Hand Only and Weak Hand Only. I don't recall any with my Plastic M&P, either. But I default to the Chapman stance, straight right arm, bent left arm, what is usually called "modified Weaver" these days.
My protege shoots a Glock 34 and gets caught occasionally.

I hope you have a rental range or a friend with a good assortment to try out so you don't have to try to buy your way to reliability by trading guns.

 

[cslinger]

Generally speaking I have found you have to really WANT to limp wrist to get malfunction. I generally, at least out of the box to test, shoot my firearms one handed, weak handled, light hold, sideways etc. just to get a feel for how finicky they might be and I’ve rarely induced a malfunction. Now if you are injured in some way all bets are off.

All I am saying is, at least in my experience, the vast number of modern firearms are not super susceptible to being limp wristed, at least on a holistic level. Individual examples of guns might have a tolerance issue that makes them more susceptible to malfunctions overall but that is on gun to gun basis.

Now I have shot for a long time and have shot a lot of different platforms so I might just subconsciously, at this point, handle semi auto’s “properly” and a COMPLETELY new shooter might have a different experience but all in all most firearms seem fairly resistant to limp wrist malfunctions as long as there is a modicum of hold used.

 

[Steve762us]

Metal frame >>> polymer frame.

Polymer flexes slightly.

Longer barrel & slide >>> short barrel & slide.

Shorter barrel/slide guns require stiffer recoil
springs.

 

[trackskippy]

As long as you dont allow your arm to move rearward with the gun under recoil, you shouldnt have any issue with what they call limp wristing. And it has noting to do with the wrist.

You dont have to lock your arms, and most guns can be shot with no grip at all (grip safeties could be and are an issue here) and will still function. Its when you allow your arm or the mass behind the gun to move rearward with it in recoil that you will have problems. The gun needs that mass on the grip behind it to allow the slide to function properly.

 

[CDW4ME]

Hotter ammo (+P) versus "range" ammo may provide additional slide velocity to ensure function with a less than perfect grip.
For example, in a Glock 19 a typical 115 FMJ would impart less force to the slide than a 124 +P
Glock 32 (357 Sig) in gen 3 Glocks uses the same recoil spring as the 9mm Glock 19 - 357 Sig less likely to have limp wrist malfunction.

 

[Steve in Allentown]

​

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

Ive never experienced a LW-attributed malfunction on anything 9mm or larger. .380 and smaller blowbacks seem to be most susceptible.

 

[Tallball]

I'm more of a revolver shooter, originally SA revolvers.

Like the OP, I hold them a bit loosely.

My big steel 1911's and CZ75's and so forth are NP.

The little polymer buggers need a tight grip, and it's also much easier to accidentally put pressure on the slide release (or mag release) without meaning to.

 

[Ohen Cepel]

I tried many times to jam a Beretta M9 (92) by limp wristing it as a teaching point when I ran ranges for those. I never could get it to jam that way and I tried it often with a lot of ammo. Not saying it can't be done, but I never got it to do so.

 

[chicharrones]

My Glock 36 in .45 ACP will absolutely experience a limp wrist malfunction when firing one handed if I don’t hold on hard and lock my wrist to that gun.

My long gone NAA Guardian in .32 ACP was similar but mostly due to the poor grip size on that little blowback pistol causing the gun to slip in my hand during recoil.

Both of those guns have short slides with short and stiff recoil springs compared to some longer barreled guns.

My other pistols don’t require the same firing hand strength.

 

[chicharrones]

I don’t do limp wrist testing with my pistols, but if I did I’d like to think that my 5” barreled all steel 1911 in 9mm would be the most tolerant.

 

[peeplwtchr]

Keep your thumbs up and you shouldn't have an issue.

 

[dogtown tom]

Ive never experienced a LW-attributed malfunction on anything 9mm or larger. .380 and smaller blowbacks seem to be most susceptible.

Same here. In fact, I've tried many times to limp wrist a Glock and I fail miserable every time.

 

[Rule3]

Generally speaking I have found you have to really WANT to limp wrist to get malfunction. I generally, at least out of the box to test, shoot my firearms one handed, weak handled, light hold, sideways etc. just to get a feel for how finicky they might be and I’ve rarely induced a malfunction. Now if you are injured in some way all bets are off.

All I am saying is, at least in my experience, the vast number of modern firearms are not super susceptible to being limp wristed, at least on a holistic level. Individual examples of guns might have a tolerance issue that makes them more susceptible to malfunctions overall but that is on gun to gun basis.

Now I have shot for a long time and have shot a lot of different platforms so I might just subconsciously, at this point, handle semi auto’s “properly” and a COMPLETELY new shooter might have a different experience but all in all most firearms seem fairly resistant to limp wrist malfunctions as long as there is a modicum of hold used.

For years I have pretty much done the exact thing. At our outside range with no one around I have "tested" every gun I planed on carrying. Shot the gun pretty much with 2 fingers, sideways upside down let the gun "flop" around in my hand let it recoil up. Different ammo , never got them to malfunction. This is of course after shooting the gun with normal hold and letting it "break in a little"

 

[roval]

i had jams when my cz97b was new with my reloads( due to too long COAL jamminh on the short leade and first range outing). on the uploaded video on YT even when i explained what the eventual diagnosis was, all the internet "experts" just kept mentioning limp wristing. like above i had to make a limp wristing video.

 

[Rock185]

Shady, I think you'd be on the right track with the metal framed pistols. As the slide recoils, that heavier metal frame wants to stay stationary in space, Newton's first law. The polymer frame is governed by the same law, but it has much less mass, so...

I can cause the polymer framed Glock 17 9mm to malfunction by intentionally limp wristing it. Metal framed guns, not so much.

 

[Tallball]

My daughter is tall and strong, but she can make anything jam. It's like a mutant ability. I won't let her shoot my Makarov, because it's the only pistol I know for a fact has never jammed (since 1988) and I don't want her to break the streak.

 

[someguy2800]

If your gun malfunctions from having a loose grip on it, it was never reliable in the first place and the loose grip just proved that out.

 

[DukeConnor]

I know limp writing is a thing but I have tried to limp wrist several of my autos but never had a issue.

 

[epags]

My experience:
Colt 1911 - works despite LW
Glock - negatively affected by LW
Revolvers never affected by LW (except accuracy)

 

[JohnKSa]

When I watch youtube videos of people shooting semi autos, they usually have both arms fully outstretched and locked. I guess this type of "locked out" stance is necessary to avoid limp wrist malfunctions on lighter polymer-framed guns?

It provides better recoil control which allows faster recovery, speeding shot to shot times while maintaining good accuracy. It should also make grip-related malfunctions much less likely, but that's just a happy side effect.

Grip-related malfunctions are due to insufficient velocity difference between the slide and the frame during recoil. A lighter initial recoiling mass (slide, or slide/barrel depending on the operating system) helps. A heavier frame helps. A lighter recoil spring helps. Generally speaking, making the gun larger overall seems to help. Having a gun that fits the shooter so they can comfortably get high on the grip and behind it so they don't have to take the recoil on their thumb instead of into the web of their hand will help.

A full-sized gun that feels comfortable in the hand, fits the shooter, is easy to rack and has a steel frame is going to be hard to beat.

 

[OrangePwrx9]

My daughter is tall and strong, but she can make anything jam. It's like a mutant ability. I won't let her shoot my Makarov, because it's the only pistol I know for a fact has never jammed (since 1988) and I don't want her to break the streak.

I think it's some small, involuntary reaction to the discharge in such cases.

I have a Canadian friend that's very strong on 2A rights. She went through courses (don't know what passes for firearms training in Canadia) and can identify and clear jams lightning fast...but she can't run a SA through a magazine without 3 or 4 jams. At a range that rents guns we tried several SAs. I had no trouble with any of them; she had jamming issues with all of them. In spite of all the jams, her accuracy was fairly good.

She's also big and strong, so it's not a matter of being small and weak..

She's a prime candidate for a revolver, but had no interest in them when we last shot together.
Bob

 

[JTQ]

...but she can't run a SA through a magazine without 3 or 4 jams. At a range that rents guns we tried several SAs.

Bob

I'm guessing your use the of the abbreviation "SA" is for "semi-auto" rather than "single action".

 

[trackskippy]

Back when the MAC channel boy posted up that video and was saying the Glocks were such a problem, I tried it myself, as Id never run into it.

I shot one of my 17's, basically normally, but with absolutely no grip whatsoever. The gun was simply resting on the web of my hand and the only thing keeping it from leaving my hand when I shot, was my trigger finger in the trigger guard. My wrist and elbow were relaxed. I shot four full mags, 68 rounds, and not one stoppage or problem. Unlike him, I was actually aiming at a target tooas I was doing it, as whats the point if you dont? I put all 68 rounds on the silhouette right around COM where I was pointing the gun at around 5 yards or so.

Now, when I turned the gun sideways, holding the gun with my thumb and trigger finger, like he was shooing them in his video, I did have some trouble with the 17, but even then, it was only 3 out of 10 or so. Holding the gun sideways, with no mass behind it, is the reason it was having trouble. Just like when someone who allows their arm and the gun to move rearward under recoil.

Oh, and shooting it at a target that way, like I did the first time, I had more misses off target than hits on it too. Kind of hard to shoot well when youre holding the gun wrong.

Whatever limp wristing is, its still the fault of the shooter, and not the fault of the gun. Im still convinced its allowing the gun and arm to move rearward together with recoil, which causes the slide to short stroke.

Ive taught a number of people who were having short stroke problems to correct it, and that includes young kids. Once they knew to be a little more aggressive in the itr stances, and not to let the gun and their arm to move reward with recoil, the problem went away.

And from what Ive seen when people do have the issue, a lot of it is their stance and to some extent fear of the gun. Its pretty easy to tell if there's going to be an issue, and who its likely to happen to, just by their body language.

Oh, and one thing I learned doing that little test too was, my 1911's were actually more of a problem than my Glock, when the gun was held loosely. I had a lot of problems with the grip safety not disengaging and allowing the trigger to go. Something Id never had a problem prior to that, because I always held the gun properly.

And now since Ive been using Glocks and shooting them a lot more than I do my 1911's now, Ive come to find that because of getting that higher grip on the gun, that the Glocks allow, when trying to get it on the 1911's, I find that it forces the grip safety to lever out and engage, and again, the trigger wont go unless I adjust my grip.

Another reason why its good to sus things out in practice and learning and trying new and different things. Weird things can and do pop, that you might never have considered or thought might.