Pistols that are less susceptible to limp-wrist malfunctions?

[OrangePwrx9]

I'm guessing your use the of the abbreviation "SA" is for "semi-auto" rather than "single action".

Right!

Context always has value.

 

[JohnKSa]

Whatever limp wristing is, its still the fault of the shooter, and not the fault of the gun.

To a point. There are a couple of things to consider.

When the gun is small and light enough and the caliber powerful enough, you can get to a point that it's hard to make a gun work because the recoil spring has to be so stiff. There was a gun writer some years ago who had a micro-compact plastic-framed .40S&W that would only work for a few rounds before the recoil tired him and he couldn't maintain a good enough grip on the gun to make it consistently reliable. He had a gunsmith work on it, tried all kinds of things himself and finally had to acknowledge that the gun was just too small and light for the caliber.

The other issue is that in some cases, it's not possible to get a good grip on the gun, such as when injured or when shooting from awkward positions and it's nice to have a gun that will work under those conditions. I see a surprising number of malfunctions in videos of real-world shootings and it looks like a significant number of them are due to not getting a good grip on the gun, or from shooting one handed from awkward positions or while injured. Also, shooting one-handed with your weak hand can sometimes come with a surprise. I have one gun that is generally very reliable, but I did get a stovepipe malfunction (the only time I've ever had it happen with that gun) when shooting one-handed with the weak hand. I wouldn't argue against the idea that it was my fault, but it was still an eye opener since I might have to shoot weak-handed in a crisis situation.

I have a lot of polymer framed handguns, including Glocks, so I'm not against them in general or saying they're a problem across the board or that people should avoid them. I just think it's wise to keep in mind that almost any design decision (i.e. going with polymer for the frame to keep weight low) will come with some kind of tradeoff (i.e. more potential for grip related malfunctions).

 

[Tallball]

I think it's some small, involuntary reaction to the discharge in such cases.

I have a Canadian friend that's very strong on 2A rights. She went through courses (don't know what passes for firearms training in Canadia) and can identify and clear jams lightning fast...but she can't run a SA through a magazine without 3 or 4 jams. At a range that rents guns we tried several SAs. I had no trouble with any of them; she had jamming issues with all of them. In spite of all the jams, her accuracy was fairly good.

She's also big and strong, so it's not a matter of being small and weak..

She's a prime candidate for a revolver, but had no interest in them when we last shot together.
Bob

My daughter plays double bass for a college orchestra, so her hands and arms are extremely strong. I'm starting to suspect that she's really good at riding slide stops with her thumb? She shoots revolvers just fine and her accuracy with both is pretty good, so I don't think it's anything like a flinch. She plans on claiming my Model 64 when she moves off-campus, so NBD either way. My friend is a revolver guy like I am, but all three of his girls chose 9mm Shield EZ's. I'll have to tease him that at least one of us raised his girl correctly.

 

[ExtremeSquared]

I tried many times to jam a Beretta M9 (92) by limp wristing it as a teaching point when I ran ranges for those. I never could get it to jam that way and I tried it often with a lot of ammo. Not saying it can't be done, but I never got it to do so.

The M9 is the platform I've seen fail most in limp-wristing. Smaller shooters.

I'm convinced that what drives susceptibility more than anything is how the pistol is sprung. Under-sprung pistols with heavy slides and frames can result in peening and cracks, whereas lightweight-frame polymer pistols are probably easier to run under-sprung without damage by design.

Presumably, the M9 is sprung for moderately hot ammo.

 

[JohnKSa]

The M9 is the platform I've seen fail most in limp-wristing. Smaller shooters.

Good observation and you hit on the reason for it. I mentioned this in my first post on this thread:
"Having a gun that fits the shooter so they can comfortably get high on the grip and behind it so they don't have to take the recoil on their thumb instead of into the web of their hand will help."

The first time I watched a smallish person shoot an M9 (92FS) they complained about the recoil. I couldn't understand it because that gun is very light-recoiling. What was going on was that she couldn't get a proper grip on the gun because the grip circumference was so large. So she was having to cheat her strong hand around a bit on the grip so she could get a finger on the trigger. That left the gun recoiling in to the first joint of her thumb where it meets the hand instead of into the web of the hand. Even the mild recoil of the gun against her thumb was causing pain.

In addition, if you look at how to induce grip related malfunctions, that's a good way to start. If the grip isn't seated into the web of the hand, it's going to be harder to provide the resistance that the frame needs in order for the gun to function properly.

 

[hemiram]

I've owned a few pistols that would LW unless held to a (IMHO) ridiculously tight level. They didn't stay long. A friend of mine carries a Glock 9mm, It's a full sized gun, but I'm not sure of the model #, and if I shoot it, I will get an LW at least once in a couple of magazines. I really dislike the grip shape and looks of it, but he loves it. One of the worst LW'ing guns I've ever owned was my total disaster of a Colt Combat Commander. I thought it was me, but almost everyone who shot it had problems. I was glad to see it go. Last 1911 I've ever owned, about 42 years ago.

 

[jmorris]

but yet counter intuitive to how I am used to shooting

How is it that you shoot?

Many years ago, I wound up on a golf course, not doing well at all, as one would expect someone who had no idea what they were doing. Asked if there were “any tips” and one fellow spoke up with words that stuck with me for many things in life.

“Get proper training before you develop (through practice) bad habits.”

That said, I have reduced the recoil springs on some pistols and solved “limp wrist” malfunctions with some shooters.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

.... When I watch youtube videos of people shooting semi autos, they usually have both arms fully outstretched and locked. I guess this type of "locked out" stance is necessary to avoid limp wrist malfunctions on lighter polymer-framed guns? ...

I think that stance is more for stability of aim than to avoid "limp wrist malfunction".

 

[Gork10]

I shoot mostly CZ's and there clones with some others thrown in for flavor. Neither me nor my family has had a limp wrist issue with any of my simi autos. I will say I don't buy the supper small pocket type of guns. Never found them to be overly reliable in general. Smallest gun in my normal carry rotation is a SAR b6 compact. About a thousand rounds threw it and no problems. All of them 124 grain NATO or equivalent. Just my 2 cents and what works for me. A quick photo of said compact.

 

[peeplwtchr]

Good observation and you hit on the reason for it. I mentioned this in my first post on this thread:
"Having a gun that fits the shooter so they can comfortably get high on the grip and behind it so they don't have to take the recoil on their thumb instead of into the web of their hand will help."

The first time I watched a smallish person shoot an M9 (92FS) they complained about the recoil. I couldn't understand it because that gun is very light-recoiling. What was going on was that she couldn't get a proper grip on the gun because the grip circumference was so large. So she was having to cheat her strong hand around a bit on the grip so she could get a finger on the trigger. That left the gun recoiling in to the first joint of her thumb where it meets the hand instead of into the web of the hand. Even the mild recoil of the gun against her thumb was causing pain.

In addition, if you look at how to induce grip related malfunctions, that's a good way to start. If the grip isn't seated into the web of the hand, it's going to be harder to provide the resistance that the frame needs in order for the gun to function properly.

A Tea Cup grip does the same lack of resistance as well. Why there is no argument to use it.

 

[kidneyboy]

I have had 1 pistol that didn't like "limp wristing" (whatever that is) - an STI Guardian. It forced me to pay more attention to how I was handling the gun.

 

[TRX]

I've shot a bunch through a friend's Desert Eagle. It doesn't care how limply you hold it; as long as the ammo is hot enough, it will cycle just fine. They're gas-operated, not recoil-operated.

It *is* picky about the ammo. Apparently some commercial .44 Magnum is loaded extremely mild. Also, it didn't like any of my reloads until I got to the "maximum" end of the charts.

 

[SterlingBullet]

It is doubtful that your pistol was the source of your limp writing and recoil problems. I own four SR9 series pistols, all of them are extremely mild shooting, almost down to the level of 22LR. Several dozen people have used the pistols, many their first time handling a firearm, achieving every shot within the 7-9 bullseye rings at 21 feet.

Find someone with experience training shooters to view your firing hold, stance and trigger technique; they’ll help you identify what you need to correct.