Police denied entry to party so they ticketed party-goers

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nico

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I know there's been a lot of (too much) cop bashing around here lately, but this is a ridiculous case of sour grapes.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/06/AR2005060601652.html
The link requires registration, but bugmenot gets around it.

Police Ticket Cars In Lieu of Teens
Liquor Fears at Md. Party Unfounded

By Nancy Trejos and Daniel de Vise
Washington Post Staff Writers
Tuesday, June 7, 2005; Page B04

Anna Phelan and Emily Adams wanted to end their four years at Bethesda-Chevy Chase High School with a memorable backyard graduation party.

There was a blues band, a moon bounce, a popcorn machine and a pit for making s'mores. Guests feasted on hot dogs, hamburgers and bratwurst. There was plenty of ginger ale, cranberry juice and root beer to go around. What there wasn't plenty of was alcohol.

"It was pretty low-key, and it was just sweet," Margaret Engel Adams, Emily's mother, said of the party for about 80 friends and relatives. "It was just pretty much out of Norman Rockwell."

All that changed about 9:30 p.m. Thursday, Adams said, when a Montgomery County police officer knocked on the Phelans' door, in the 4600 block of Rosedale Avenue in Bethesda, to say that someone had complained about the noise. The officer then asked Anna's mother, Kathy Phelan, if he and several other officers could give breath tests to the teenagers. She refused.

So police stationed patrol cars at each end of her street, six in all, and began giving the tests to guests as they left the party, she said. None of the teenagers tested positive for alcohol, she said.

Officers then began ticketing vehicles parked outside the Phelans' house, she said, including ones that belonged to neighbors who weren't at her party. Some vehicles were ticketed for a wheel improperly touching a curb or for extending into a driveway. Emily Adams, 18, received a $35 parking ticket; her Honda Odyssey minivan was parked directly in front of the Phelans' home.

"It almost seemed like they were angry that they didn't find anything," Kathy Phelan said.

The officers were part of an Alcohol Enforcement Section that combs the county around holidays and during prom season to guard against underage drinking. The eight-officer unit checks bars and restaurants and responds to citizen complaints when house parties appear to involve underage drinking.

"When they get calls that there may be underage drinking, their response is to investigate it," said Lt. Eric Burnett, a police spokesman. "We're trying to prevent teen deaths."

Margaret Adams and Kathy Phelan have written a letter to Montgomery Police Chief J. Thomas Manger and several other county officials. They are seeking disciplinary action against the officers and apologies to their daughters, best friends since middle school who graduated from Bethesda-Chevy Chase High School on Wednesday.

Burnett said that it was too early to discuss the allegations of the party hosts but that the incident was under investigation and that any proven misconduct would result in disciplinary action.

He said it is standard procedure for alcohol enforcement officers to cordon off a block if they are denied access to a property where they suspect underage drinking is happening. He added that the parking infractions described in the letter "are tickets that you can actually receive. We can't just make this stuff up."

Phelan said police never asked her if there was alcohol in the house. There was a small amount of beer at the party -- for adults -- but it was kept in the kitchen. The teenagers couldn't get to it without walking past an adult, she said.

John King, assistant Montgomery police chief, said the alcohol enforcement officers had "some indicators" of underage drinking at the party. "But it turned out those indicators were wrong."

Ryan Hamm, 17, said he was tested as he walked from the house to his car. No alcohol was detected, he said.

"We were like making s'mores in the back and they had cake," he said. "It was just like people talking and a band playing, and it was fun."

A local morning DJ was talking about it today and quite a few cops called in supporting these actions. One of them said he was at the party and that if the woman "had done the right thing and let [them] in" there wouldn't have been a problem. Another caller mentioned that people have a right to not let cops in. But, the next caller (also a cop) said that if you're in the woman's situation, you should just "do the right thing" and let the cops take a look around.

When did it become "the wrong thing" to exercize a Constitutionally guaranteed right if it happens to make a cop's job less convenient?
 
Everyday the 4th Amendment is becoming more and more irrelevent.
 
It does sound like sour grapes from the cops.

Not that the tickets/permits are illegitimate, they clearly are legal.

But the cops were mad nothing panned out.
 
Well, there might not be so much cop bashing if you didn't have retalitory enforcement like the described incident.

I realize there's always more than one side to the story, but it's pretty screwed up when other LEOs support that action as described.

I saw a thread a while back about your bags being searched when you left stores like Frye's or Best Buy--too many folks said it's not big deal, don't worry about it. The problem is that mentality infests itself into the public norm and kids grow up thinking that is normal and then become cops and judges and it becomes policy.

And honestly, that consititution is a nice read and all, but those folks still got tickets to pay.
 
This is pretty much S.O.P for cops around the country. Most people are intimidated into cooperating lest they get a parking ticket, so you don't hear about it much.
 
nico, why do you hate the children?

Don't you realize that if you don't do every little thing a police officer asks you then you undermine our entire police state...er...society?

And for those of you who want to bring up the constitution, that is an ancient, irrelevant text written by a bunch of dead white guys who did horrible things like smoke and drink and think people should be able to say NO! to authority, so obviously it doesn't have anything to do with our little post-modern Utopia :rolleyes:

You people make me sick.
 
Chicken Manure

Sure sounds like abuse under color of authority to me.

Parents were home, kids were supervised, noise complaint was bogus (IIRC, you don't have to quiet down until 11PM in Mont Co), kids were otherwise behaving. Noise aside, no probable cause for a search. let alone shut down the party; a simple 'turn it down please' would have been sufficient.

Then again, Monkey County is pretty much the epicenter of MD liberal nannism & PC, so I guess you reap what you sow :barf:
 
nico, why do you hate the children?

Don't you realize that if you don't do every little thing a police officer asks you then you undermine our entire police state...er...society?

And for those of you who want to bring up the constitution, that is an ancient, irrelevant text written by a bunch of dead white guys who did horrible things like smoke and drink and think people should be able to say NO! to authority, so obviously it doesn't have anything to do with our little post-modern Utopia

You people make me sick.

Zundfolge, good stuff man! :evil: Slave ownership! You forgot the slave ownership! LoL...
 
There is a pretty simple solution to most of the so called cop bashing. Where I grew up people treated each other with respect, regardless of occupation or station in life. I think if law enforcement officers would behave in a respectable manner, they would have fewer problems with cop bashing. They seem to often have the idea that they ARE the law. That just doesn't fly with me or with lots of other folks.
Bob
 
I'm gonna get flamed for this, but oh well.

If I were a cop, and the parents told me that there was no alcohol, I wouldn't necessairialy be inclined to believe them. Having been to a few last year when I graduated, and this year is starting up again, it is usually the parents providing the alcohol.

The breathlyzers when the people exited, I don't really have a problem with. they had no way of knowing if there was alcohol or not being served.

The parking tickets? Sound like they were mad, but if the tickets were legit, I can't really be mad over that. If I were their supervisor, I may have a talk about decision making, though.
 
Let us into your property to test your children...

...or we will harrass you to the furthest extent of the law...
Burnett said that it was too early to discuss the allegations of the party hosts but that the incident was under investigation and that any proven misconduct would result in disciplinary action.
The report was written before this incident. It will have words such as "unfounded" and "exonerated."

He said the police "suspected?" What reasonable suspicion did they have? And since they were wrong multiple times, what does that say about their police work and "intuition?"

Secondly, I would love to get more info on how the teens were coerced into doing BAC tests. Public skool graduates, no doubt. Trained to obey the State.

Maybe, just maybe, the PD have sown the seeds for, or even created a few more small-L libertarians.

Rick
 
Screw the neighbors who called in the complaint. And anyone involved in an auto accident with one of these kids afterwards, well, hey, they shoulda got outta the way. Go ahead and park whereever you want, its a free country.

I dont get paid to lose or walk away. Bash away, its what you do best. :rolleyes:
 
Secondly, I would love to get more info on how the teens were coerced into doing BAC tests.
The state may have one of those anti-drunk driving laws that specify if a breathalizer is refused, the drivers license is confiscated on the spot pending further investigation. IIRC we have one of those here in Colorado. Don't forget just how important that license is to teen-agers.
 
Secondly, I would love to get more info on how the teens were coerced into doing BAC tests. Public skool graduates, no doubt. Trained to obey the State.
Once you're in your car, all the cop need to do is demand a breath test. Most states require that you comply with such a request as a condition for the privildge of driving. IIRC cops don't need much justification, and I'd think that most courts would uphold the decision to breath test the kids. Now, if you're just walking down the street, and not getting behind the wheel of a car, that's different.
Screw the neighbors who called in the complaint. And anyone involved in an auto accident with one of these kids afterwards, well, hey, they shoulda got outta the way. Go ahead and park whereever you want, its a free country.

I dont get paid to lose or walk away. Bash away, its what you do best.
I still have not added anyone to my Ignore list, but geeze centac you're getting awfully close to justifying that. I'm sure you'd have hauled the kids to jail too if they'd had a coffee can in their car?
 
Stuff like this makes me wonder somedays why im going into law enforcement.

Other days it makes me glad i am, maybe i can help curb this kind of thing from happening.
 
Yeah, but what are the chances that you are a big enough dip???? to be stuck on traffic patrol or liquor duty? Something tells me you wont run into these people very much if you are investigating homicides or somthing useful.
 
Just don't let the centacs of the world alter your goals, Arsenal.

And centac, ya know, I don't believe in "ignore lists". I read everything, especially the stuff I oppose...but you're just too damn much. So long.
 
I dont get paid to lose or walk away.
You're kidding, right? Are you some kind of pro athlete? This is a game you win or lose?

If a police officer asks me to consent to a search and I do not consent, I don't consider myself to have won some kind of game. I also don't think of that as the officer "losing" a game of some kind.

Centac, I don't want to be a jerk, but you're not helping your cause here. You'd help yourself a lot more if you'd think twice and post once.


I don't need to comment on the original article; Jefnvk said it all. I agree with him completely.
 
One thing I've always wondered. If you're drinking underage and the cops want to breathalyze you, couldn't you refuse under the 5th amendment as taking the test would cause you to incriminate yourself? This is assuming they can't just shove the thing down your throat. Also could the same apply if the police knew you were drunk and believe, but don't know for sure, that you're underage and wanted to see your ID?
 
This is the problem,with Cops like Centac. If exercise your rights, you piss them off, due the LEO's being on a power trip. I am just glad no illegal coffee cans were found in the cars, could have been a whole lot of searching going on.


The 4th amend does not exist anymore, you can invoke it, you can say no to a consent search, but you will pay. As long as there are I AM GOD cops, you will pay.
 
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