Police denied entry to party so they ticketed party-goers

[Sindawe]

Maybe he was traumatized by a coffee can full of dryer sheets when he was a child?

thebucket: Breathalizers may come under the same classification as urine streams and garbage, since the exhaled breath is a waste product. Dunno know about the state this took place in though.

 

[Luku]

Stuff like this is going to make it harder for the good cops to do their job.

 

[2nd Amendment]

From another forum, someone had an observation that struck a chord...

So holding people hostage till they take this alchol test is OK by these guys?

Pretty much distills it down to the bare truth. Surprised I didn't come to the same observation...

 

[nico]

One thing I've always wondered. If you're drinking underage and the cops want to breathalyze you, couldn't you refuse under the 5th amendment as taking the test would cause you to incriminate yourself? This is assuming they can't just shove the thing down your throat. Also could the same apply if the police knew you were drunk and believe, but don't know for sure, that you're underage and wanted to see your ID?

To the first question, I would think so. The thing is, MD is one of the above mentioned states where having a driver's license is a de facto consent to a brethalyzer and refusing results in an instant suspension of your license. I wonder, though, if that only applies while operating a car, but I wouldn't put it past the lawmakers in this state to make it universal.

To the second question, iirc, there was a Supreme Court case a few months ago where they basically ruled that if a cop asked for your ID in investigating a report, you have to hand it over.

Another fact in the case that wasn't mentioned in this article is that after setting up their road blocks, the cops looked into the house with binoculars and saw kids "drinking out of red cups" (the disposable kind you'd hand out at a party when you don't want to do a lot of dishes afterwards) which make them SURE underaged drinking was going on. I guess they went to the centac school of law enforcement.

::sigh:: without cops like centac, vernal45 wouldn't have a leg to stand on

 

[Zundfolge]

The tickets where petty and childish ... but if they where legit tickets then those who got them are stuck ... pay the ticket.

But its the breathalyzer tests that bug me.

These cops didn't have probable cause to give the tests ... in general you can't just randomly test people unless you have reason to believe they are indeed under the influence (for those over 21) or have consumed some alcohol (for those under 21).

Stuff like this is going to make it harder for the good cops to do their job.

Ultimately thats what this is all about. Crap like this erodes trust between police officers and the community they serve, and it always seems like its the good cops who pay the biggest price for this (by their jobs being harder and more dangerous).

Actions like this get ALL police painted by the same brush. Can anyone here imagine LawDog pulling such a childish stunt? I can't.

 

[Standing Wolf]

The cops had probably rounded up all the illegal aliens and violent criminals in their jurisdiction, and just didn't have anything better to do.

Let's cut them some slack, eh?

 

[nico]

These cops didn't have probable cause to give the tests ... in general you can't just randomly test people unless you have reason to believe they are indeed under the influence (for those over 21) or have consumed some alcohol (for those under 21).

I was under the impression that it was deemed OK as long as they brethalyzed everybody (basically, in this case, they set up two checkpoints near the house).

Standing Wolf: that's unlikely. MoCo's policy on illegal immigration all but invites them to come.

 

[Justin]

Good thing none of these kids had coffee cans in the back seat of their cars.

 

[Phantom Warrior]

What's the reference to coffee cans?

 

[P95Carry]

Phantom - do a search on that in Legal and Political - and if the thread/threads involved have not been canned, you should find out!

 

[hammer4nc]

Metaphor for the police state: If government officials are unhappy with you, everyone can be arrested for something. And, the same officials will make professional sounding statements justifying their actions. Some people who hear these statements will actually believe them.

 

[MN_Strelok]

So police stationed patrol cars at each end of her street, six in all, and began giving the tests to guests as they left the party, she said.

He said it is standard procedure for alcohol enforcement officers to cordon off a block if they are denied access to a property where they suspect underage drinking is happening.

Seriously? A six car police roadblock is their SOP for this sort of thing? Wow.

I guess when your department has a $150.6 million budget, you can really kick it up a notch.

 

[2nd Amendment]

Or just look up Vernal45's Sig Line...

 

[Steve in PA]

They can't just give breath tests, sorry. No way shape or form can they do that without PC.

As for the tickets, yeah pretty petty.

 

[pax]

Moderator Note



Awright, you kids. No more personal comments about the other posters, please.

For those who need a refresher, you can find the forum rules here.

pax

 

[Vodka7]

What really gets me is the cops started giving out parking tickets *after* doing the breathalyzers. I understand they're part of a task force to route out underage drinking. I understand that a lot of high schoolers get drunk at graduation parties.

But what I can't understand is why, after proving for a fact that no underage drinking whatsoever was taking place at this party, that the police officers involved decided the best use of their time was to give out parking tickets to people with, God forbid, a wheel touching the curb. I mean, there must have been a half dozen graduation parties in the same town the same night, and undoubtedly underage drinking was happening at some of these other parties. So why didn't they go find them, and do their real job? How does giving a parking ticket for blocking off the driveway of a party the person is at discourage that person from underage drinking?

 

[wasrjoe]

They didn't really care about the underage drinking anymore. They were slighted, and they had to retaliate.

 

[roo_ster]

Empty Coffe Cans

PW:
According to some in law enforcement, an empty coffee can in your vehicle (and visible from outside the vehicle) gives them PC to search your vehicle/ruin your day/whatever.

Search the threads and tremble in awe.

 

[Cellar Dweller]

Totally honest mostly unloaded question:

What would have happened if, after observing the roadblocks being set up, none of the guests had left and spent the night in the backyard or house instead?

What if they called their parents to pick them up? Legally, at a roadblock, is everyone in the car obligated to take a breathalyzer or only the driver or the driver + anyone with "alcoholic beverage smell?"

What if some called cabs to pick them up? Walked instead of drove?

If coercion doesn't work and the person isn't driving i.e. "not using the road that is being blocked" would a warrant be required? That is:

[loaded]Given the flimsy PC of a party with music and teens and plastic cups and ~99% chance of SOME form of alcohol in the house (even if it's cooking sherry) but no one chugging from a keg or throwing beer bottles or dancing around with a bottle of grog...[/loaded]

 

[Crosshair]

Don't you have to be in a car for them to breath test you, so if you are walking home from a party they could not test you, correct?

 

[nico]

They can't just give breath tests, sorry. No way shape or form can they do that without PC.

My Maryland Driver's License reads

Driving in Maryland implies consent to chemical testing for intoxication as required by law. Longer license suspension may result from refusing to be tested

That tells me that refusing a breathalyzer=suspended license (and Sean Taylor's case backs it up). A kid walking down the street, I would think, would have every right to tell them where to stick the breathalyzer. The thing is, kids (especially in the DC area) are brought up to think that cops are the ultimate authority and you do what they say. The Consitituion is mentioned and often actually read, but I never had a teacher explain how the amendments relate to real life today.

IMO, it would do a great service to society if every social studies, l/s/n government, or US history class in high school had a section on what the Constitution means today. ie: when you have a right to keep your mouth shut, tell a cop they can't do something they want to do (search, etc.), etc. Most people think that a cop asking you to do something is just a nicety and that you have to do anything they ask. They don't realize that you ever have a right to say "no." I'm sure that most PDs and several cops of a certain breed would have a huge problem with such information getting such widespread dissemination though.

 

[geekWithA.45]

Some of the states more inclined to statism than others hold young people's driver's licenses hostage to their good behavior....and will yank licenses for underage posession of alcohol even if no vehicle is involved by any stretch of the imagination.

I'm moderately disturbed by the apparent pettiness and groupthink displayed by the cops in this case, and the escalation of force deployed in the face of someone asserting their prerogatives.

Recalling Sir Robert Peel's injunction that good policework cannot be achieved by force, and that it is entirely dependent on the public trust and confidence, I'd have to say that bad cops and policy are burning "coin" the good cops can't afford.

 

[geekWithA.45]

IMO, it would do a great service to society if every social studies, l/s/n government, or US history class in high school had a section on what the Constitution means today. ie: when you have a right to keep your mouth shut, tell a cop they can't do something they want to do

The public grade school I went to in the 70's covered exactly such topics.

 

[Desertdog]

To me, it's litigation time for harrassment, waste of police resorces, and intimidation by requiring all drivers to take the breathalyzer test.

Each and every one of the tickets should be fought in court, which would require the police officers to spend a lot of time in court to testify. Hopefully it would be on their days off or during the day when they work at night.

 

[joab]

They didn't really care about the underage drinking anymore. They were slighted, and they had to retaliate.

I disagree.
I don't think that this was retaliation or even pettiness.
It sent a message to the 80 people at the party,
who will tell every one they know about the incident, who in turn will tell everyone they know about the incident.

The message is simple "We don't get paid to lose, or walk away. You play a game of whose the boss with us you will lose"
The next party they go to may just be a little more compliant

Suggesting or thinking that it just petty retaliation does nothing to stop what is really a coordinated effort to make us submit to the authority of the state

This would be a much better defense

Each and every one of the tickets should be fought in court, which would require the police officers to spend a lot of time in court to testify. Hopefully it would be on their days off or during the day when they work at night.

Except in Fla or at least Orange county