police have to fire my gun?

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Old trick perps used was just to take a screwdriver and jam it down the barrell a few times, made it usless to the police to try identify.
 
And of course since the majority of guns used in crimes are stolen it doesn't do any good even if the technology and tracking process was flawless.
 
To help defend "ballistic fingerprinting" (the process itself, not the system or how it is used) I have included 2 links here.

http://www.swggun.org/swg/index.php

http://www.firearmsid.com/

Unfortunately, I do not have time to completely go through all of it because I am busy working on school assignments. One thing to know about the IBIS or NIBN system is that it does not find a "match". It brings up multiple close images that an examiner has to look at in person. My father also said that "ballistic fingerprinting" has convicted criminals. Yes, there are many variables that can cause the matching process to fail, whether it is replaced/altered parts, mangled bullets or the event that the firearm does not leave a perfect toolmark. But any form of scientific method can be deemed unreliable if something is altered.

Also, the The National Academy of Sciences is under scrutiny right now for not allowing Tool Mark Examiners to give their full report and defend their position.

Once again, I am not talking about how the database system should be used (I am against cataloging guns that were not used in crimes). You can believe "ballistic fingerprinting" is a hoax, but I assure you it is not. There are just a lot of variables that can impede the identification. Please look through the links I provide and do your own research on the subject.
 
Beretta, Colt, Taurus, Kel-tec, and some others do not include fired casings. These firearms need to be taken at the dealers expense to a state police facility and be fired. Over 100 mile drive for us. The police fire the guns and collect the spent casings. Most of the other manufactures include a spent casing with the new firearm. The dealer keeps this at the sale and sends it to the State police. This is only required for new handguns in NY. We usually wait until we have a few handguns before making the trip. Some dealers will not sell firearms from companies that do not include a fired casing. So, if we get in a shipment, and someone wants to purchase say a Beretta, they may have to wait a week or so.
 
My father also said that "ballistic fingerprinting" has convicted criminals.
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Undoubtedly when combined with an overworked public defender, who has neither the time, the training, nor the inclination to provide a first class defense.
 
What a waste, we can surely find better ways to waste money. Once a crook and a firearm are recovered, yeah you can make some statements that the "ballistic fingerprint" is consistent with the items found. But as far as I know, no criminal has ever been identified using this technology.

Thanx, Russ
 
SDC,

Thats a good line, "Have to make sure that particular firearm fired that cartridge" LOL Wonder why it takes so long to get someone from the ATFE to fire one?? Must be down on the border filling rifle orders !!:evil:
 
***UPDATE***WOW so I bought the gun april 15, I called the shop owner today for an update on this ridiculous situation and he says THE STATE POLICE HAVEN'T GOTTEN BACK TO ME YET!!!!!! ***! so not only are they putting me through all these hoops but their taking their sweet ass time as well!!! I could see it taking a week if they came a few days later picked it up fired it and brought it back a day or two later but they haven't even RESPONDED TO MY GUN SHOP'S MESSAGES YET :banghead::cuss::banghead::cuss:
 
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Seems to me like people are getting a few key distinctions mixed up.

A BULLET can be matched to a certain gun in some cases due to the amount of contact time and the tendency of some barrels to leave nice unique marks on it. The ballistic matching is also normally done soon after the crime when wear and cleaning wouldn't have changed the marks yet. BULLETS have been ballistically matched and used in concert with other evidence to get a conviction.

A CASING has minimal contact time with a fairly uniform element of the gun. Most firing pins and extractors look exactly the same(especially new) when just a glance will show you differences in most barrels. Casings are pointless to rely on. "Matching" the casing can be used as an investigative tool but is not nearly sound enough for court or even to be considered evidence. Most of the time you just use the caliber and brand/type of ammo as another piece of information to help narrow the field.
 
How can it be legal for a state (or any) government to compel citizens to surrender property that is rightly their own with no legal basis to do so?

I know it's just a spent casing, but it is your physical property. I thought that if you owned something, no matter how minor the item is, it still belonged to you. :confused:
 
And exactly how many crimes has this prevented?
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Prevented? None. Solved? None. It has been used in two cases in NY, but neither one resulted in a conviction. This is after ten years and millions of dollars of taxpayers' money.

It is only done a requirement with new handguns. No long guns, nothing used.

I thought that FFLs were authorized to do the firing for guns that don't come with a fired case. Is it possible that this guy is jiving you because he hasn't gotten around to it?

Beretta, Colt, Taurus, Kel-tec, and some others do not include fired casings.
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Are you sure about all those? I just bought a new Taurus from a Gander Mountain store, and there was no BS about waiting for the state police, etc. Is it possible they fire the pistol themselves onsite? They don't have a range, but I imagine a sand barrel would do.
 
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Rick I agree. Remember that most likely the LEO's charged with doing this program most likely thinks it's BS and would rather be doing some thing more constructive. However they don't make these asinine laws it's the politicians that make them, they have to enforce them or be found to be maleficent in their duties, been there, happy to be retired.
 
I have a Dan Wesson with 3 spare barrels and I've changed out the firing pin as well as an M9 with 2 spare slides and a few extra barrels, so they can have all the 1st rounds they want, but in the free state of Ky we don't worry about such BS.
 
IMHO, including a few spent casings with a purchased firearm won't meet any recognized standard of chain of custody sufficient to stand up to query in court. Even having the arm fired by a local PD leaves a lot of room for dispute, as the PD would have to provide proofs of security/identification/linking to any weapon undergoing forensic examination. >MW
 
toivo said:
Prevented? None. Solved? None. It has been used in two cases in NY, but neither one resulted in a conviction. This is after ten years and millions of dollars of taxpayers' money.

It is only done a requirement with new handguns. No long guns, nothing used.

I thought that FFLs were authorized to do the firing for guns that don't come with a fired case. Is it possible that this guy is jiving you because he hasn't gotten around to it?



Are you sure about all those? I just bought a new Taurus from a Gander Mountain store, and there was no BS about waiting for the state police, etc. Is it possible they fire the pistol themselves onsite? They don't have a range, but I imagine a sand barrel would do.
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I am sure they do not come with fired casings. We have the cobis done before putting them in the case. With special orders, or if someone asks, we will sell them the firearm then they have to wait until we can get them fired. We have to make an appointment. Like I said, we drive 100 miles for this. I would give the dealer a break.
 
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