Police: Man held up at mall

[xy17]

This happened in a nearby small, usually safe and peaceful town near me where I shop twice a week.

If you pocket carry, how would you deal with this situation?

By ASHLEY ADAMS
Evening Sun Reporter
Article Launched: 04/20/2007 10:21:55 AM EDT


Hanover Borough Police Department is investigating a strong-arm robbery that occurred in the parking lot of the North Hanover Mall Thursday.

Chief Randy Whitson said a 20-year-old New Oxford man was approached by two black men at 4:23 p.m. when he went to his vehicle in the lot near Carlisle Street after shopping at the mall.

One of the men approached the victim and asked him for a light for a cigarette, Whitson said. The two suspects then demanded the victim give them his money, saying they had a handgun. Whitson said the victim did not see a weapon.

After getting a small amount of cash from the victim, the two suspects fled in a dark-colored Mazda being driven by a white female, Whitson said. No one was injured.

The first suspect is being described as a black male in his early 20s with a thin build, braided hair and a thin mustache. The other suspect is a black male, tall, in his mid-20s with a large build and corn rows woven into his hair.

The female driving the car is described as a white female in her late teens or early 20s.

Anyone with information related to this incident should contact the Hanover Borough Police Department at 637-5575 or through York County 911.

XY17

 

[Sean85746]

For years I have made it a habit of carrying a LARGE cup of steaming coffee or hot chocolate in my left hand when in a mall or "big box" store.

I don't drink coffee.

Think about it...you are confronted and threatened. You simply douse the aggressor with a chest/face full of steaming coffee (pick the beverage), take a couple of steps back, or to cover, and draw your defensive tool (mine is a legally carried G30) or run like a big-assed chicken.

You have just created a very effective, and painful diversion that, in my experience, takes the fight RIGHT OUT of someone. Who's to say the coffee wasn't spilled during a scuffle?

It helps to yell for help, or for security, or scream..."Please don't hurt me!" It will look better having said these things if/when officers arrive.

Let's face it...crimes like this are becoming more apt to end in violence than ever before.

I know it works. I have seen me do it.

 

[Bezoar]

Was this incident after the victim made a monetary transaction in front of the criminals who robbed him?
The coffee cup idea is a crime i think,,, particularly after you say thats what youll do. heres something you should consider..

Get your gun a good shoulder rig, and wear it under the stereotyped loose overshirt. Put a pocket for your wallet inside the overshirt next to your gun. you should be able to get to the wallet without anyone seeing the gun..

So say you buy a latte and a criminal sees you put your money in the shirt. The criminal follows you out and demands your wallet, being a nice guy you say "sure ok, one minute please". You move latte to the off hand, and reach in for wallet, and instead pull out your glock and start screaming for help.
just a safer idea.

 

[Sean85746]

You know...the coffee is NOT a crime if you have been threatened. It is especially not a crime IF your money has been demanded.

We are talking about a situation where scumbag one has already said..."Gimme yo money mofo or I will bus a cap in yo azz".

It is merely a tool in a bag of self defense tricks that will buy me time to escape, draw my weapon (hopefully NOT having to use it because someone is having a warm and wet feeling all over their chest and face), or kick them in the 'nads. What I am saying is this....use the tool you have at hand.

I am no mall ninja, or tactical teddy. I am a realist.

I NEVER want to have to fire my weapon in self defense again. I will, but it is the last resort. I'd rather scumbag one get a little toasted than all the way dead. But then again...it is his choice, not mine.

 

[Ric in Richmond]

Here is what I did....

Coming out of lowes a couple weeks ago. Middle of the day. I am 100 feet from my truck parked in the middle of the lot. Not a lot of cars around...none between me and my truck.

Bag in each hand. Two guys come cruising across the parking lot straight at me, from a direction where there are few stores and not many cars so I believe they were on foot.

I already had the little warning bells go off.

Then it starts "hey man got a light" I think....no way, this is too text book. And I don't think I remember seeing either of them with a cigarette!!

I say "NO... DON'T SMOKE" At 40 feet the one asking for a light asks again, the other splits and moves 10 feet off his wing. Still coming I say firmly NO I DON'T HAVE A LIGHT. I am now closer to the truck, but not close enough to make it before they intercept.

Still coming, I drop the bags, turn to a 45 angle stance and pull my jacket back and put my hand on my hip, just over my IWB Sig. Gun was on my side away from them and I don't think they saw it, but they clearly recognized the posture and the attitude. I repeat...BACK OFF... I DON'T HAVE A LIGHT.


The both stopped dead and started backing away at about 20 feet...saying..HEY MAN IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE THAT WAY.

They then turned and walked quickly away across the lot.

I was in the truck and was out of there.

Made no follow up phone calls...which I kind of regret since they might have found someone later who they did get "a light" from.


Comments and critiques are welcome.

Sure would hate to shoot a guy with a pack of camels and no matches.

 

[xy17]

Ric in Richmond

What would you have done if they kept walking towards you?

XY17

 

[Baba Louie]

What would you have done if they kept walking towards you?

I imagine they'd have to get their faces uncomfortably close to the working end of Ric's little firestick in order to light up their non-existent smoke and once they saw his choice of fire lighting device, they might once again reconsider their request... but then Ric (or anyone else so involved) would be forced into calling the LEO's into play and reporting an attempted strong-arm, his (I hesitate to use the word brandish) display of PDW and he'd have to do it FIRST, before alleged parking lot smokers called in to report a "Man with a gun". (Usually whoever calls in first is considered the wisest victim)

Having said that, it'll be interesting to hear(read) Ric in Richmond's response to your query, as I cannot and do not speak for any other than myself

 

[Ric in Richmond]

Good question. They were within close reach. I could see their hands.

The second one was moving to quarter but stopped.

They instantly backed off.

I suppose I could have thrown the plumbing parts at them and ran...but I don't run real fast vs 20 somethings.

Thought a lot about it since then.

Heavy responsibility to "carry".

I think I made the right call, but who knows?

 

[.cheese.]

I think the coffee cup thing might not work as planned - but I don't see how it's a crime.

 

[sfc123]

Marc MacYoung calls this the interview and it is a very common tactic used by criminals, though keep in mind that it is not always a verbal interview. Sometimes they are looking for just the right victim who isn't paying attention to his/her surroundings.

 

[thexrayboy]

When someone asks for a light and you reply "no, I don't smoke" two things will happen. Either they will start looking for another person to light their cigarette....no real threat. Or they will ask again as they manuever for position.....real threat, act accordingly. In public parking lots potential threats should never get two chances. If they ignore a response and continue their approach they are considered a significant threat and reactions are planned accordingly.

 

[Geno]

In Michigan, we do not have to retreat. Strategically, it is best to keep walking, while deny being able to help them. Be your @$$ alert...it's a set-up! Just remember my words..."Scan and scoot, be ready to shoot!" See, I don't smoke. If they know you can't help them with a light, and they keep coming at me, they want something else...like money or my life.

 

[Ric in Richmond]

Gut feeling says I read my situation right....So does their response.

Now if I could get my wife to carry when she wanders around aimlessly I'd be so much happier.

I told her the other day that one day she would see the reason to carry daily...I just hope it happened to me first and not her.

 

[justashooter]

next time some wanker asks me for a light, i'm gonna open up on him with my concealed flamethrower. that'll fix'em.

 

[Run&Shoot]

Ric,

I think one of the important things you did right was being aware of distance and interacting before they closed on you. Once two guys get within a few feet you would have hardly any time to react or make a decision.

I certainly don't think you over-reacted. If they had asked for change and been persistent then there might be a chance that they were just aggressive panhandlers. But persistent about asking for a light? That does not compute. they were most likely using that as a ruse to get closer.

You did good doing what you had to verbally and positioning to keep them at a distance in order to give yourself roomto think and maneuver.

 

[Soybomb]

Sure would hate to shoot a guy with a pack of camels and no matches.

I always find these discussions interesting and think its where concealed carry really gets tricky. I don't even really like commenting on them.

In the news story it sounds like the victim let the crooks get the drop on him. Ric got it right by confronting them early, and being firm that he had nothing for them. Warning bells went off for ric when 2 people who wanted a light kept advancing on a man they now knew in no uncertain terms could not help them get their cigarette lit. he took an agressive posture and remained firm that he had nothing for them.