Poll on position for legalizing drugs

How legal do you want drugs to be?

  • Execution or life sentence for all illegal drug users and dealers.

    Votes: 7 2.1%
  • Execute or life sentence for all drug dealers.

    Votes: 22 6.5%
  • Ban alchohol and tobacco, maybe even caffeine

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Keep the drug laws the way they are

    Votes: 21 6.2%
  • legalize Marijuanna for medical use

    Votes: 16 4.7%
  • legalize Marijuanna/individual drugs

    Votes: 65 19.2%
  • legalize most drugs

    Votes: 72 21.3%
  • legalize all drugs

    Votes: 135 39.9%

  • Total voters
    338
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We need to have the ability to view who picks what option in a poll. That way the execution people would at least be named since they've all decided not to inform us why they voted the way they did.

I hope that none of you execution voters are Bush supporters or Rush supporters. Not to mention the serious lack of entertainment we'd be facing.
 
There's a reason most polls are anonymous. So people aren't afraid to post their opinion. Then again, this gets you fraud.

I think that it's interesting that ~60% of the high road wants to legalize at least "most" drugs, while only 16% want drug laws as strict or stricter than now. Nobody wants to ban alchohol or tobacco? It also seems that most people at least found a niche to vote in. That seemed to be a big problem for some of the other polls.

That's one thing about the execution thing, I wonder if any of them want to ban the two major legal drugs? Common, there's eight of you out there.

Is there a way I can make it so that people can change their votes?

Grey54956: As far as only "natural" drugs being allowed, you can synthesize asprin from willow bark with a basic chemistry set. Many of the opium variations aren't very complicated to make. Would you consider cocaine natural? Remember, the black market will remain for any drugs you don't legalize, with the caveat that legal alternatives will probably take users from any that remain illegal depending on their relative merits. For example I can see cocaine displacing crack if cocaine is legal and crack isn't. Of course, that same chemistry set can change cocaine into the crack form rather easily.
 
Good point Firethorn.

I suggest that we simply use the FDA to regulate chemically refined and synthesized substances. A lot of medicines are offered over the counter because they have been deemed safe enough or common enough to do so. If for some reason the FDA were to decide that crack is safe enough for over the counter sale, that's fine. They won't ever do so, but it should be their jurisdiction.

Under my system, cocaine would be legal to use in its natural, unprocessed form. Coca leaves can be chewed or brewed into tea, and have been used by natives for centuries as a mild stimulant, like coffee. However, chemically processing them into a refined substance without being licensed would be illegal. Processed cocaine might be available with a prescription depending on its merits, and could be supplied by appropriate manufacturers.

Similarily, opium would be legal to use in its natural state, but heroin and other opium derived drugs would again be limited to prescription use only.

The nice thing about this system is that natural products which are cheap and easy to produce should satisfy most recreational users, thus ending their dependence on illicit sources, whose goal in general is to introduce the end user to more expensive, higher margin product.

A black market may still exist, but this would be far more manageable in size and scope, and would be executable under a completely different set of regulations.
 
Grey54956:

While I think that safe* cocaine & such should be at least available "Over the Counter", I think that your idea has merit, at least for a transition period where we convince people that we're better off with the stuff legal.

*Safe: consistant purity, quality and cut with safe materials. Many of the problems with ODs is that the purity and quality vary widely, and often isn't cut with safe materials. Cut cocaine with Chalk?
 
The difference between crack and powder cocaine

is
Baking soda, some water and heat.
Yep thats it sheeple. Crack is noting more complicated than taking cocaine
adding about 25% by weight baking soda, water and applying heat.
 
Legalize them all. Ensure that the legislation specifies that by using drugs, the user assumes sole and total responsibility for the consequences of his action.

If you feel the need to provide government funded rehab (which isn't a totally bad idea), ensure that it is funded entirely by taxes on the drugs.
 
Ensure that the legislation specifies that by using drugs, the user assumes sole and total responsibility for the consequences of his action.
How about blanket legislation, even a constitutional amendment, specifying that EVERYONE over x years old (I'm leaning toward 16) assumes total responsibility for ALL actions, drugs or no. Just to clear up some misconceptions.
 
I don't care if somebody wants to drill a hole in their head, and pour in battery acid. The government has no business regulating self-regarding behavior. And the federal government has no authority to regulate it, either.
 
I'd be interested in why the "execution voter" thinks that drug dealers should be executed?
Our lone voter for 'kill any and all drug users' is probably chortling quietly to himself about the funny trick he's played on us all by voting for such an outlandishly silly idea.
 
Actually he was stoned and punched the wrong button. He now denies any knowledge of the act(which makes sense, since he really doesn't remember it). :)
 
My experience (20 years as a paramedic in a medium/large city that just might be the party capital of the world: Las Vegas Nevada) tells me that our present legal position on recreational drug use provides almost no obstacle at all to those that want to enjoy them. Put another way, pretty much anyone that wants to do drugs can easily do drugs right now. The effect of law enforcement on the availability is probably not even worth mentioning. Those of you that think you are preventing anyone from buying or enjoying recreational drugs by making/keeping them illegal are just fooling yourselves.
I have a hard time imagining how making this legal would change much of anything as far as the user is concerned. The effect on society would be that a whole lot of law enforcement people would now have to dream up something else to spend your tax money on.
In the short term, I think we would see a spike in medical problems related to recreational drug use but I think after the first year or two, things would level out. We would still have problems just like we do now. Right now people are doing drugs. Problems result from this behavior. If we legalized drugs, people would do drugs and problems would result from this behavior. I don't think the problems would be a whole lot worse than they are right now in terms of the problems caused by the users. I think the HUGE problem caused by the enforcement of these laws would be mostly eliminated, however the damage already done to our rights and the expanded rights of law enforcement along with the militarization of law enforcement will be a hangover that will effect our society forever. IMO, we as a society are a big loser in this so called war because of law enforcement, not because people are doing drugs.
 
Constitutional authority?

All drugs should be decriminalized, though in practice we should expect to proceed in stages, such as Grey's suggestion regarding natural products. But any attempt to go slow will continue to encourage the violence and disruption of the existing black market. People think of the black market when they think of drugs, because people rob, steal and murder to get the cash for the artificially high black market prices, and engage in turf wars. Actually, I would prefer to see the FDA abolished, because they have killed more people than they have saved, and corrupted the practice of medicine.

The federal government has no constitutional authority to conduct the drug war -- or regulate any aspect of medicine. Nowhere does the Constitution say the government has the power to prohibit psychoactive drugs, and if it doesn't say so, then the federal government does not have that power. This was correctly understood when the attempt was made to prohibit alcohol in the 1920's: a constitutional amendment was passed to permit the prohibition on alcohol sales. Which still was highly unpopular, and many juries refused to convict anyway, regardless of the evidence.

It has been noted that the dealers would not support legalization. This is true, and the biggest dealer of them all, the CIA, especially doesn't want it. Bush I, when he was CIA director had some big operations going, and the CIA has kept it up through the Bush I, Clinton (Mena, AR), and Bush II administrations. They pump billions of dollars a year into Wall Street banks, all the while using the War on Drugs as an excuse to clamp down more and more on our freedoms. Create a crisis, make lots of money on the black market, then offer a Hegelian solution. Beautiful.
 
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Firethorn,

Thanks for putting this poll together. Believe it or not I said this kind of poll was a wonderful idea on another HR thread only a day or so ago! Now here it is. :D

UdeMan.

1st
THR is populated with many different types of people and many different PsOV are discussed here.

2nd
At 161 votes I'm not sure we have even "a real good idea" of how most feel even on THR. 161 is not a majority even of us! So put down those hookas and roll up those "Don't Tread on Me" flags.;)
I wonder how the numbers would look if all that lurk here would vote? I wish they would so we would have a better estimate.

3rd
I'm anti-legalization. I voted for legalization of MJ for medical purposes (bogus as some states have allowed those programs to become) but that's based on my own personal set if biases and past observations of human behavior. Apparently for most of you, your milage does vary and that's fine and even excellent.

4th
Question: Based on the 75% of 161 votes can we all just now agree, for purposes of doing business here in THR, that pro-legalization is our corporate position and move on. We seem to co-exist remarkably well without disussing the R or A words here...

5th
And in conclusion, one way or the other government comes to be the root of all evil. This comment has nothing to do with this poll it just struck me that if you trace back large scale human misadventures and national disagreements far enough, government usually played a part in the disaster.

Best,

S-
 
Lots of good comments. Perhaps the hoplophobes, instead of focusing on the mistaken notion that guns are responsible for violence and crime, should consider that if drugs were legalized, that would basically eliminate the power and usefulness of virtually every street gang and a great many criminals. Stiff penalties for crimes committed while under the influence of drugs are the way to go. Like guns, you can't legislate drugs out of existence
 
I guess I am beating a dead horse here, but I would be interested to know the opinion of those who are against legalization what they think the present laws are doing. In other words, do you believe the current laws are keeping drugs off the streets ? Do you believe the current laws are keeping people from doing drugs who otherwise would if they were legal ? Do you believe that the monetary cost of the "war on drugs" is cheaper than the fallout from legalizing drugs ? Do you believe that the current laws are stopping people from operating motor vehicles while under the influence ? Do you think the current laws are preventing problems with drugs in the work place ? Do you believe that because drugs are illegal, your children won't be exposed to them or they will be less likely to try them ? Do you think that our society will progress even further into dependency and uselessness which would further aid in our decline as a major world power ?
Please don't limit your response to just this: I am interested in hearing what good you feel the current laws are doing.
I am not trying to pick a fight. I am honestly interested.
 
i voted for executing drug dealers.

I don't have time for a debate, but since some of you seem genuinely curious, i'll briefly explain my opinion.

first, as to the objection about effectiveness: i am under no illusion that the government can effectively eliminate or even regulate drugs. the war on drugs is pathetic, much like prohibition.

however, neither I am under any illusion that laws against murder or speeding will stop people so inclined. If you want to spin analogies, spin this one: "passing laws against speeding won't stop people from speeding, so why not legalize any speed?"


second, the objection about rights: regardless of how you may feel about your God-given rights, as far as the constitution is concerned, the government certainly has the power to pass laws constraining your behavior. this can, and clearly does, occur. from turd-burgling to jaywalking, we as a society have the power and often the duty to discourage undesirable and problematic behavior.

(as a point of reference, if it weren't for idiots like Sarah Brady trying to ban guns entirely, I would totally support common-sense gun laws. e.g. brief waiting period and background checks, but not registration or mag capacity limits. i.e. not laws about the guns themselves (machine guns should be legal) but I support laws that would prevent people with a history of violence from legally purchasing any gun, not because I believe the government has any hope of actually stopping a criminal from getting a gun, but because society has to show some stones and say that it's not right, and we'll light you up when we catch you)

third, the objection based on predictions of what life would be like with legalized drugs: I've spent a few weeks on the Leidensplein, in the heart of Amsterdam, as well as several visits to the countryside around Holland. In some ways it's better than our typical US inner cities, and in other ways it's worse. But if you think their approach to drug use eliminates crime and problems, I strongly encourage you to take a trip.

fourth, I won't argue that prohibition and the war on drugs and now terror have caused quite a bit of collateral damage to our rights, including 2A. But it's not right to blame the loss on those things. They were convenient excuses for powermongers. If there were no drugs, they would have found another excuse.

finally, my own opinion is simply that narcotics, unlike nicotine and caffeine, and to a much greater extent than alcohol, control people so effectively that they simply cannot help themselves. They lose their minds and their reasoning and distort the world so much that for them, violent stupidity is as inevitable as the sun rising.

I wouldn't pitch a fit about legalizing hootie weed, nor would I be upset if we criminalized drunkenness. They don't seem too different to me.

Now, obviously, the poll is very generic. Certainly, not all drug dealers deserve death. But people who sell crack to children need to be executed.
 
Just a brief comment about one of your points that kind of plays into my whole argument: "But if you think their approach to drug use eliminates crime and problems, I strongly encourage you to take a trip."
I don't, for a moment, think that legalizing drugs will stop related crime. But, we have the crime now. We would have the crime then. So what ? A lot of the problems that people bring up as things that would occur with legalization are problems that we have right now.
I guess I will also comment on my view of cime in general in response to your analogy about speeding. I also don't agree with speed limits, although I don't really have strong feelings about it either way. The problem is that we make something illegal because of what MIGHT happen instead of just punishing what DOES happen. For example, let's say there are no speed limits and someone has the skills and equipment to drive at 150 mph. What harms is done by this ? Now, if some harm does result, then he should be punished for causing the harm: not for speeding. If someone wants to own a machine gun, fine. If they harm someone wrongly, then punish them for harming someone, not for owning a machine gun. If someone wants to get high, fine. If they harm someone because of it, then punish them for harming someone: not for getting high.
 
Another thing about this subject is the idea that if you really want to solve the problem, you need to work towards finding a course of action that really works. This might mean that you have to discontinue or modify your original plan. AND, your original plan might seen to make perfect sense and seems logical; only it doesn't work in practice.
This is another of my gun control arguments.

Let's say you go to a doctor for a health problem. The doctor examines you, runs some tests and tells you that he absolutely can solve your problem. He knows what the problem is, and knows how to fix it.
You follow his treatment protocol to the letter, but the problem doesn't go away.
You go back and talk to the doctor and he tells you to have patience; continue with the treatment plan.
You continue and the problem doesn't go away.
How long will you continue to go back to that doctor before you lose faith in him when his treatment obviously isn't working and he seems unwilling to try another course of action ?
It seems that a reasonable person would decide that he needs a second opinion, or he needs to seek help elsewhere. I feel fairly certain that pretty much anyone would agree with this.
However, when we do the same thing with laws, appearently it is a totally different story. We have a problem as a society. A beurocrat tells us that he has the answer. He impliments his plan and it is a total failure. It continues to fail year after year. It might even have worse consequences than the original problem, but we stay the course. It seems to be out of the question that we stop doing what we are doing when it doesn't work. We will go down with the ship before we change anything.
 
444, that's totally reasonable line of thinking. your experiences make you lean one way, mine make me lean the other. funny how that works.

i agree that the same logic that created speed limits also created the NFA '34. That is; we might not be able to stop people from crashing or going postal, but we can try to limit the damage when they do by restricting their speed and rate of fire.

i'm somewhat conflicted over that, because i definitely agree that laws should be oriented toward harm done, and not potential harm done. however, i have to admit that if knuckleheads like dylon/cliebold were sporting M60s or a ma deuce, it would have been far, far worse.

i guess i think that we've had speeding epidemics for longer than I've been alive and that leaves us little alternative. conversely, we have never really had so many mass-murders with machine guns that we need something like NFA or the recent unpleasantness. so i'll support everyone owning a machine gun until we do.

as for crime, I understand that too. I just think there will be more of it if legalized. And as bad as this may sound, I think for a lot of people, they realize that if legalized, that crime will move into their upper-middle-class white neighborhoods, instead of being largely confined to ghettos.
 
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