Powder Price Spike

Status
Not open for further replies.
Some is inflation, but cant help to wonder if some of it is the monopoly Hodgdon has they own Winchester powders, IMR,, western powders, Hodgdon and accurate. I will start to use more alliant powders, only 2 others come to mind shooters choice and Vihtavuori (already high priced).
 
The IMR 4198 i got was 37.00. I loaded some Berry's 150 grain 30/30 bullets tonight to try in the RAR 7.62x39. 18 grains of powder. Im looking forward to 20.00 bottles again. I agree 44.00 is to much. I too wonder if Hodgdon is doing a little gouging. Didn't they recently buy the Western powders line?
 
Some is inflation, but cant help to wonder if some of it is the monopoly Hodgdon has they own Winchester powders, IMR,, western powders, Hodgdon and accurate. I will start to use more alliant powders, only 2 others come to mind shooters choice and Vihtavuori (already high priced).

Hodgdon has had this “monopoly” for a long time - why did they just increase their prices now? They could have raised their own prices beneath the tide of VV powders a long, long time ago, but didn’t… why is that?

When someone walks around seeking to find evil in every corner, they’ll find evil SOMEWHERE, whether it’s real or imagined…
 
Hodgdon has had this “monopoly” for a long time - why did they just increase their prices now? They could have raised their own prices beneath the tide of VV powders a long, long time ago, but didn’t… why is that?

When someone walks around seeking to find evil in every corner, they’ll find evil SOMEWHERE, whether it’s real or imagined…
well I know western powders went up in price shortly after hodgdon purchased them, that was before this shortage business.
 
The IMR 4198 i got was 37.00. I loaded some Berry's 150 grain 30/30 bullets tonight to try in the RAR 7.62x39. 18 grains of powder. Im looking forward to 20.00 bottles again. I agree 44.00 is to much. I too wonder if Hodgdon is doing a little gouging. Didn't they recently buy the Western powders line?
It’s $47.95 from Hodgdon direct online - and that’s before shipping and the dreaded Hazmat.
Made in Canada. IMR may be on the way out forever. No more powder imports wouldn’t hurt the feelings of some Americans and no more powder exports wouldn’t hurt the feelings of quite a many Canadians. We may be looking at more than just a price spike here.
 
. IMR may be on the way out forever. No more powder imports wouldn’t hurt the feelings of some Americans and no more powder exports wouldn’t hurt the feelings of quite a many Canadians. We may be looking at more than just a price spike here
IMR powders may indeed be on the way out forever - but not because of where it's made.

IMR is one of the oldest style powders - extruded, single base - made with very old technology. That technology involves certain chemicals; solvents and such, that are under pressure from the environmental wings of many Govts.
Certain chemicals and solvents are now regulated out of use in EU countries, including importing any products using those chemicals/solvents.

Some powders have been reformulated, some lines of powders invented, to conform to those regs.
Some lines of powders will necessarily be discontinued if the manufacturing of said powders cannot be economically changed. If the sales cannot support the cost of manufacturing, the powder will go away.

I look for many old lines of powders to disappear.
 
IMR powders may indeed be on the way out forever - but not because of where it's made.

IMR is one of the oldest style powders - extruded, single base - made with very old technology. That technology involves certain chemicals; solvents and such, that are under pressure from the environmental wings of many Govts.
Certain chemicals and solvents are now regulated out of use in EU countries, including importing any products using those chemicals/solvents.

Some powders have been reformulated, some lines of powders invented, to conform to those regs.
Some lines of powders will necessarily be discontinued if the manufacturing of said powders cannot be economically changed. If the sales cannot support the cost of manufacturing, the powder will go away.

I look for many old lines of powders to disappear.
Those are the powders I use and buy the most. That basically leaves the vhit 100 series as the last choice.
 
well I know western powders went up in price shortly after hodgdon purchased them

Ever think that maybe under-pricing themselves and unduly limiting their own margins and revenue might be why Winchester powders was in a position where they had to be sold to someone like Hodgdon?
 
Business owners and operators are the ones stuck perpetually making smaller, metered sales. Even when they’re selling massive items, the margin potential at any given stage in the supply chain is pressured by competition, such it’s minimized at every value-add stage of the chain. Can’t be defeated - if anyone tries to make too much at any step in the process, a competitor evolves to do that step at a lower cost to the downstream buyer and the attempt at drawing excessive margin corrects itself. Doesn’t matter if you’re selling lemonade on a street corner or billion dollar aircraft - competition opportunity compresses margin opportunity. Being good in this model means being consistent, and consistently less expensive to keep improving margins so razor thin doesn’t become razor thinner…

Alternatively: Business Developers - entrepreneurs - are those of us making the big sales on lesser volume. We can create opportunity for OTHERS to become business owners and operators, and our margin on the business is only limited by THEIR ability to make those margins with the proposed business at scale. So we do 20% of the work to get the businesses 80% to commercial maturity, and sell it on massive margin, possible because those folks want that competitive timeline advantage to make their margin ahead of others. Yes, there is greater turmoil, but in every instance, it’s these turnover opportunities which offer the greatest returns - so being good at this just means having a great BS filter, so you don’t chase dogs which don’t hunt, and having the ability to create returns for VC’s and IEI’s which lay the seed money…. Who naturally get the sweetest deal out of all of us - no labor, just an appetite for risk (and a bunch of capital on hand), and the only burden is to have an even better BS filter than everyone else so their money doesn’t get pulled into dumpster fires and tarpits, but rather into rocket engines.

Or, of course, you can be a bank/creditor… lending at 25% to borrow at 0.7% is a pretty sweet gig…
Are you saying it’s hopeless or are you hopeful given the alternative? I can’t really tell.
 
Are you saying it’s hopeless or are you hopeful given the alternative? I can’t really tell.

Neither. Just stating the dynamics of risk tolerance and corresponding margins for respective aspects of the economic food chain.

But philosophically, I’m an optimist - or maybe rather I’m perpetually confident in my ability to generate the income I desire through pursuits I enjoy within the context of a fair, capitalistic, free-market economy. I’m not the uber-risk taker yet to be a PEI, but I’m also too hungry for the small margins offered by operating. So business development is my passion.
 
Those are all things that the majority of the population buys; powder is not. If you're referencing inflation overall, that could affect the shipping, but I would be a bit surprised that in a couple months, it has impacted the powder industry that much, when gas has been at record prices for over a year. Not sure if you're aware, but it doesn't take gas, eggs, butter or a car to make powder.
The primary ingredient in powder is also a widely used ingredient in everything from ppe, to fertilizer. So yeah, it's something everyday consumers buy. All the same inflationary pressures apply.
 
I don’t know what I’d do but I’m glad I don’t run my own small business. But if I did I’d be in it for the big payout or not do it at all. My charity goes to my church, Salvation Army, and whatever the neighborhood kids are collecting for, everyone else pays retail +
You're exactly right, but the other thing nobody seems to be talking about is future costs. If you owned a gas station, gun shop, ammo company, or any other business... and you priced on what current inventory cost the past 2 years... you're already bankrupt and out of business. You HAVE to price on what future inventory is going to cost... or you won't be able to buy new inventory.
 
You're exactly right, but the other thing nobody seems to be talking about is future costs. If you owned a gas station, gun shop, ammo company, or any other business... and you priced on what current inventory cost the past 2 years... you're already bankrupt and out of business. You HAVE to price on what future inventory is going to cost... or you won't be able to buy new inventory.
Agree
 
The Russia/Ukraine conflict is sucking up large amounts of ammunition, components, and precursors too. We, (American civilians) are having to compete with Uncle Sugar who is using our money to buy up as much as they get their hands on to give to Ukraine- gratis.
Of course, some of that is relieving global ammunition supply pressure as Ukrainian (and Russian) troops resell it on the black market...o_O
 
I have no expertise in this area at all (so my comment can go on forever unencumbered by facts) but seems to me robots could do it all.
Who programs the robots?
People like me. And we don’t work cheap.
And before you make a comment about how easy it is to program robots because you heard about some guy’s neighbors friends 8 year old who programmed the toilet to flush every time the dog drinks out of it… we are talking about something a little more complicated than robot chicken. :cool:
 
I have no expertise in this area at all (so my comment can go on forever unencumbered by facts) but seems to me robots could do it all.
The process is mostly automated. It requires human operators & maintainers. Nitration needs to take place under tight perameters of ideal conditions. Otherwise, the exotherm ignites the product. Alfred Nobel blew up Stockholm twice till he figured that out. They still have a law that you cannot manufacture Dynamite within city limits.
 
I don't understand the jump in powder prices. I have three lb bottles of BL-C(2) powder the one I just emptied was $19.95 the next one had a price tag of $23.98 & the one I just bought to replace the first was $39.99. It hasn't been but a few years from the first to the last bottle. I know there was a short while that powder was hard to find but there is no reason to punish us for needing to reload.
 
Who programs the robots?
People like me. And we don’t work cheap.
And before you make a comment about how easy it is to program robots because you heard about some guy’s neighbors friends 8 year old who programmed the toilet to flush every time the dog drinks out of it… we are talking about something a little more complicated than robot chicken. :cool:
Not saying it’s easy just that it can be done. Nor cheap (but cheaper than human life).

And I don’t need to tell you there are lots of complex things automated today that folks never thought possible except the ones who did it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top