Private Gun Show FFL transfer...would you use one?

[Redlg155]

First... I'm not advocating that private sales should be regulated as I enjoy the freedom of being able to buy and sell as I please.

My question is that would you use a dealers services if he offered a relatively low cost service $10.00 to facilitate a transfer for "peace of mind"?

I know the obvious answer is to not sell if you aren't completely comfortable with the sale and to complete a bill of sale with the language included that protects both the buyer and seller.

Again, I am not advocaing restrictions or proposing a model for gun shows to follow.

On a second note..I'm off to the Tallahassee show in a couple of hours to see if this latest "event" has created yet another spike in demand and prices.

 

[HexHead]

No, a private sale is a private sale. Period.
And the obvious answer is NOT bils of sale and documentation. Protection for whom from what?

Private FTF sale... Ask if he is legally allowed to buy a gun. Ascertain the buyer is a resident of your state. You've done your due diligence. Buyer hands you money, you hand them gun. Done deal. Anything beyond that is superfluous.

 

[Hokkmike]

My standard requirement is to check somebody's CCL or LTCF. Aside from same state residence we do have an obligation to make a determination as to the eligibility of the buyer to be able to own a firearm.

A bill of sale is always a good idea. Why not?

HexHead is correct in that his comments outline the minimum required protocol necessary in a private sale.

 

[hovercat]

NO.

 

[bigfatdave]

Unlikely. It would have to be something I really wanted and knew I'd be unable to find elsewhere. I wouldn't use it as a seller at all.

As far as I'm concerned, bills of sale are bunk as well.

Anything beyond showing state ID is silly and pointless.
(I freely show my carry permit if asked for in-state ID for a private sale, and appreciate ((but don't require)) the same in return)

Stop acting like you're liable for future use/misuse of tools you sell. And stop acting like everything needs permission in the form of some kind of government blessing.

The State created all these classes of "prohibited persons" and then did NOTHING to keep them away from arms.
It isn't MY problem to do so, it shouldn't be the problem of small business owners to enforce the unenforceable federal laws.

Remember that there were no background checks at all before the '90s. This silliness is a new thing, and part of a long propaganda effort to make you feel like guns are special, guns require special permission to own, and that you need to check in with great white father in Washington DC before doing anything with a gun.

Act like a citizen, not a subject begging permission from his masters.

 

[brboyer]

Nope.

Treat firearms transactions like any other: Knives, phones, TV, stereo, clothes, etc.

Hand over cash. Take product. Simple. Legal. No need for any of the other stuff.

 

[jerkface11]

No but if the buyer wants one he can pay the $10.

 

[hso]

You might argue that a sale to a stranger that you're not completely comfortable with could bring peace of mind if you did it with a background check, but the counter to that is what are you doing making a sale to anyone that you're not completely comfortable with in the first place.

 

[Wildbillz]

Ask the guys from Cali how it has worked for them? They have had just what you are suggesting for quite a few years now. Of course the price tended to go up each year and now you need to take a state safety test and who knows what else.

Nope.. Private is private, don't invite the .gov in where you don't need or want em.

WB

 

[oneounceload]

No I wouldn't

and to complete a bill of sale with the language included that protects both the buyer and seller.

And that is pointless. You advocate less restriction, yet advocate this? For eons, folks have bought and sold without so much as a first name exchange, let alone unnecessary paperwork.

 

[Midwest]

NO.



And for those sellers requiring to see a carry permit in order to conduct a private firearms sale. WHY?

Suppose the buyer doesn't have (or want) a carry permit? You won't sell to him/her? It is a PRIVATE SALE.

Unless there are state regulations requiring a private sale be documented and ID's and permits verified...then why require it?

 

[Bailey Boat]

We bitch, groan and moan about the gov requirements to purchase and possess and then create more ourselves???? Seems counterproductive to me. A resounding NO!!

 

[M2 Carbine]

My question is that would you use a dealers services if he offered a relatively low cost service $10.00 to facilitate a transfer for "peace of mind"?

Absolutely not.

The best thing about a FTF sale is the gun's paper trail ends.
In a FTF sale the most information I may give or want is a show of Driver's License or CHL, with my thumb over the address.

A bill of sale is always a good idea. Why not?

Because it isn't worth the paper it's written on. If I was buying your gun illegally I'd give you a Bill of Sale and it would be worse than no paperwork because if would be phony.

Protection for whom from what?

That's the question.
If you followed the law in a FTF sale, what do you need protection from?

I'll tell you exactly what happens if you sell a gun and it's used in a killing because that's just what happened to me.

The Detectives called me saying one of my guns, that I had filled out the 4473 for, was used in a killing. (Don't tell me the 4473 isn't gun registration)
I told the Detective I sold the gun (legally) to a individual and I didn't know where it went.

The Detective thanked me for my time.

Unless you are a Crack dealer, or some such, what do you need "protection from"?


It makes my day when I end the paper trail on a gun.

 

[Willie Sutton]

"And for those sellers requiring to see a carry permit in order to conduct a private firearms sale. WHY? "

Why?

1: It's proof positive of the buyer being from my own state.

2: It's fair assurance that he's not a prohibited person. A corollary is that it lessens the chance that I'm being set up for being robbed in a face to face meeting.

3: It's some small comfort to know that they are probably "gun people" and not likely to shoot themselves in the leg.

4: It gives me a point to talk to encourage people to go get a CCW.


"Suppose the buyer doesn't have (or want) a carry permit?"

Tough noogies.


"You won't sell to him/her?"

Nope. It's a private sale and private busienss is done when both seller and buyer agree to terms. These are my terms. Don't like them? "Oh well"... : See "tough noogies" above.

I've never had a problem selling anything I ever wanted to sell, and sleep well at night.


One thing that I do not do though is ask for a bill of sale. Show your CCW, hand over your cash, and walk away. I only buy things in private sales under the same conditions.



Willie

.

 

[Ryanxia]

No, I'm comfortable following the law during a private sale just the way it should be. If a buyer/seller requested that we go through an FFL then I would but they're paying.

 

[danez71]

My question is that would you use a dealers services if he offered a relatively low cost service $10.00 to facilitate a transfer for "peace of mind"?

I have never sold to someone I didn't know well and I have sold to a FFL when I didn't have a buyer that I new well.

So my answer is Possibly.

Its kinda vague as written.


Bigfatdave mentioned the state ID requirement.

I'm not disagreeing with anything he said, but personally, I think that requirement is dumb.

Why should someone have to show state ID to buy a rifle for example but you can freely move into another state (almost all states) with it with-out showing ID? I don't care where a person lives nor should anyone else.

 

[BobTheTomato]

I wouldn't do it if they paid me $10.

 

[Walkalong]

No sense taking the first step down that road.

 

[longknife12]

With the new Co feel good laws, even a FTF private has to go through a FFL.
Dan

 

[bigfatdave]

Bigfatdave mentioned the state ID requirement.

I'm not disagreeing with anything he said, but personally, I think that requirement is dumb.

I think it is dumb, too, but that's the current law. Legal private sales between residents of the same state, with "residency" poorly defined and entirely un-tracked.

But when some seller asks to see ID, I just show an obvious Ohio ID with my picture on it. I don't let them copy it, I don't even let them examine it closely*, really. It could easily be phony, and I don't really examine the other guy's ID anyway, I'm just making a token effort to [strike]avoid[/strike]spot a Bloomberg illegal sting. I haven't spotted one of those yet, and I haven't decided what to do if I ever do spot one, but it won't be anything that helps their little cause.

* (exception, buying from a C&R holder, they have odd legal requirements)

As far as bills of sale, I don't play that game, and nothing has been important enough to bother with one yet. Maybe a screaming deal on something I really want and can't get elsewhere (like a 100-year-old .32acp gun in good condition, or with a spare mag) would get me to fill out someone's made-up worthless form, but I'd trash my copy as pocket-clutter within seconds, and I'd be unhelpful on what I filled out. The whole concept is silly, and I'm not playing along with people that are scared of Big Brother to the point that they help Big Brother.

 

[bigfatdave]

I'll tell you exactly what happens if you sell a gun and it's used in a killing because that's just what happened to me.

The Detectives called me saying one of my guns, that I had filled out the 4473 for, was used in a killing. (Don't tell me the 4473 isn't gun registration)
I told the Detective I sold the gun (legally) to a individual and I didn't know where it went.

The Detective thanked me for my time.

M2 Carbine - thanks for the rational, reality-based account.

Logic would show that a cop investigating a crime would be more interested in the people involved with motive/oppurtunity/etc than chasing down a serial # except as a long shot. If citizens would stop taking crime shows as fact and think about it for a moment, there's no reason to do silly things in an effort to avoid impossible harassment in the future.

 

[brboyer]

"And for those sellers requiring to see a carry permit in order to conduct a private firearms sale. WHY? "

Why?

1: It's proof positive of the buyer being from my own state.

2: It's fair assurance that he's not a prohibited person. A corollary is that it lessens the chance that I'm being set up for being robbed in a face to face meeting.

3: It's some small comfort to know that they are probably "gun people" and not likely to shoot themselves in the leg.

4: It gives me a point to talk to encourage people to go get a CCW.


"Suppose the buyer doesn't have (or want) a carry permit?"

Tough noogies.


"You won't sell to him/her?"

Nope. It's a private sale and private busienss is done when both seller and buyer agree to terms. These are my terms. Don't like them? "Oh well"... : See "tough noogies" above.

I've never had a problem selling anything I ever wanted to sell, and sleep well at night.


One thing that I do not do though is ask for a bill of sale. Show your CCW, hand over your cash, and walk away. I only buy things in private sales under the same conditions.



Willie

.

It's proof positive of the buyer being from my own state.

No it's not. Plus this is not a requirement in most states.

It's some small comfort to know that they are probably "gun people" and not likely to shoot themselves in the leg.

Why do you care what other people do with their own property?

It gives me a point to talk to encourage people to go get a CCW.

 

[Monte Verde]

If you bought your gun through a dealer and sold it FTF without paperwork - the paper trail stops with YOU. Guess who the police are going after if the firearm is recovered at a crime scene or in the hands of a felon?

 

[HexHead]

and that you need to check in with great white father in Washington DC before doing anything with a gun.

Who's that, Biden?

 

[medalguy]

Hate to say this, but the police won't "go after you" for a gun you sold. Ain't happening.