Probability of Bad Guy Snatching Gun

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Kleanbore said:
Yes, the open carrier has the means to defend himself, but if the objective is in fact a gun grab, he will certainly not be afforded the opportunity.

The lone open carrier is vulnerable to surprise from behind and to being disabled by a blow or an edged weapon. The concealed carrier is of course also vulnerable to having his gun taken, but he will present a target of opportunity only after he has produced the weapon.
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If a criminal is in need of a gun, chances are they likely do not have one. There are very, very few criminals in this world who would be dumb enough to try to take it from the person wearing it instead of just stealing a couple hundred $$$ to buy one. Again, though, it is not about absolutes. It's about playing the odds. There is a documented case of a man being beaten to death by a criminal using a flower pot off the victim's own front porch. So, should we conceal our flower pots on our front porches?
 
Posted by Mainsail: The volume of cars and trucks stolen every few minutes far exceeds the number of handguns stolen from their owners while carrying, openly or concealed, in all of the last century.
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The number of opportunities for stealing automobiles from parking lots, garages, driveways, and curbside parking spaces far exceeds the number of opportunities presented for stealing firearms, though unsecured firearms are stolen from homes or parked autos with sufficient frequency to be of some concern.

The more serious risks involve the taking of a gun from a person via robbery, and car jacking. To stand a chance of taking a gun from a person without the risk of being injured, a criminal actor would have to be able to move in close and surprise and threaten or injure the carrier from behind. Opportunities for that are limited. The problem is, the open carrier has little he can do to prevent that opportunity in the event. Every one of us will at some time stand in line or walk on a crowded sidewalk. The only effective mitigation is to not be known to have a firearm.

It seems to me that vehicles appear far more desired by criminals than guns.
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Could be. Depend on what is afoot.
 
Yet not a day goes by that I don't see someone walking down the street with a set of car keys in their hand or hanging from their belt and not one of them had those keys snatched by a bad guy.
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What good would keys do them? Are they going to go through the entire city trying the keys until they find the car?

Unless they just watched the person lock & leave the car and therefore know which cars the keys open they're going to have a hard time using them.

Besides, if someone stole your car keys, all you'd have to do is get to your car first to prevent it from being taken--something that should be pretty easy to do since you know where it's parked and the criminal probably doesn't.

And, to top it off, if you got there with the cops, it would be a very bad day for the criminal if he did manage to locate the vehicle.

So criminals don't snatch car keys because they don't want car keys, they want cars. And turning a random set of car keys into a car is difficult and risky.
There are very, very few criminals in this world who would be dumb...
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Any sentence that starts like this isn't going anywhere productive, for obvious reasons. :D

There is no shortage of evidence to prove that criminals are often very, very dumb.
 
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The more serious risks involve the taking of a gun from a person via robbery, and car jacking. To stand a chance of taking a gun from a person without the risk of being injured, a criminal actor would have to be able to move in close and surprise and threaten or injure the carrier from behind. Opportunities for that are limited.

I would hope that we all use our situatuational awareness first and foremost. You don't have eyes in the back of your head, but you can approach, look and then make a decison based upon circumstances, then move as apporopriate.
I challange some of you to sit in a parking lot in a big box store or a Mall and watch people move through the parking lot, there is a bit to be learned there. Having your head down reading a text, with your keys in one hand and cell in the other is an invitation for disaster. I would guess most people move through these places more or less distracted.
While being armed is a big part of self defence, it will remain only a part. being aware of you surroundings. Avoiding distractions and Moving with a purpose are to me just as important if not more important than being ready to take on six bad guys with some MMA moves.
I'm not saying you cannot be disarmed, I am saying there are an awful lot of common sense things you can do first to prevent that from happening.
 
I'm so worthless these days... I can't fight worth a darn anymore. It's about 12 feet for me if I'm certain an attack is inevitable. It's jump/reach from the attacker plus my reaction time. And this is cutting it close for me. If I ascertain that an attack is inevitable from farther away then I'll draw much earlier.
 
Kleanbore said:
The problem is, the open carrier has little he can do to prevent that opportunity in the event. Every one of us will at some time stand in line or walk on a crowded sidewalk.
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Wasn't there a thread here not too long ago started by a poster that had some () give his gun a tug standing in line at a store?
 
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Wasn't there a thread here not too long ago started by a poster that had some () give his gun a tug standing in line at a store?

Flat Sap to the wrist?
 
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I'm going to agree with Tom's post from last month where he points out that Mom really isn't talking about handgun retention.


She's not quite ready to accept her little boy might have it inside him to kill another man. But those big, bad criminal thugs do, and all her baby is doing by carrying a gun around is bringing one for them to use on him.


I've seen similar sorts of struggles from mothers who can't believe their son (or daughter) is capable of doing horrible things on the battlefield, too.


Let Mom have her opinions. No good can come of you trying to persuade your mother you are willing and capable of killing a man.

I assume you're an adult now Tony, and can make your own choices regardless of whether she agrees with them. Best to just let this topic alone.
 
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Not generally likely for robbers doing armed holdups.
They would never take that kind of RISK.
Seriously... They wouldn't. They would walk away.

The gun retention thing is an issue in a close quarters struggle.
Its more likely to happen in a domestic argument, or a push-and-shove kind of incident during a heated exchange ( guys who are riled up).

CA R
 
My take-away from retention class is to be situationally aware and not let the opportunity present itself for the bad guy. I keep my gun concealed and try to have the radar on whenever I carry. Based on my shoulder surgery from retention class, I realize that I probably am going to have my hands full if Mongo tries to take my gun. So, I try to avoid places Mongo would go, if I see him I give him distance, and I simply will do my best to never let him inside "the radius."
 
If I needed a gun, and saw a guy standing around mcDonald's, openly carrying, that gun would be in my hand in seconds, and I'd be gone. But I'd smack him down and then kick him as he laid there, not try to snatch the gun out of his rig. I could go to the gun shop, and they'd HAND me one to "check out". If I've already bought a box of ammo and a mag to fit the gun (being checked-out) from another store, guess what? 1.5 seconds to slam in the mag and drop the slide stop.
 
If what your mother is saying were actually true then they wouldn't issue sidearms to law enforcement as we are always physically in contact with someone when we make an arrest. Occassionally someone does get their gun taken or more often they lose it in a scuffle when it comes out of the holster accidentally but it doesn't happen enough for it to cause concern with any department that I know of. If you hesitate or "lock up" you could get it taken but that is why all people who carry should train mentally and physically for a possible confrontation. The mental training probably being the most important. They also teach us to keep a 5-7 foot distance from any suspect up until the time that we decide to make an arrest. Situational awareness is preached at us constantly.
 
A figure of 1 in 5 cops used to be bandied about.

That if they were shot, 20% of them got shot with their own gun, or their partner's gun. I believe that I recall Mas Ayoob quoting that figure, and he's usually spot-on about stuff.
 
Bullfrog Ken Said:
She's not quite ready to accept her little boy might have it inside him to kill another man. But those big, bad criminal thugs do, and all her baby is doing by carrying a gun around is bringing one for them to use on him.

I've seen similar sorts of struggles from mothers who can't believe their son (or daughter) is capable of doing horrible things on the battlefield, too.
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That's part of her opinion, but what she believes more broadly is that ANYONE who carries a gun is foolish. (she doesn't specify open carry or consealed--where she currently lives open carry is legal and about as common as having a leatherman strapped to your belt).

Let Mom have her opinions. No good can come of you trying to persuade your mother you are willing and capable of killing a man.

I assume you're an adult now Tony, and can make your own choices regardless of whether she agrees with them. Best to just let this topic alone.
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Again, well said Bullfrog Ken. I'm not in the habit of arguing with people about their strongly held opinions, especially emotionally charged opinions. There's a good thread in activism about how to effectively make the case for 2A/RTKBA/SD.

My mom has been spouting this rhetoric about "the bad guy taking your gun" since I was a kid (at 38, I'm no longer a kid). As kids, she'd rant and rave about the topic and we always just kind of laughed it off as one of mom's quirks. I've always considered it a POSSIBILITY and something to keep in mind for SA. I'm glad I brought it up on THR because people have given lots of good perspective on the matter.
 
At age 38 I wouldn't worry to much about what mom thinks about how I live my life.;)

EDIT: No offense intended by that... just the way I think.:)
 
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At age 38 I wouldn't worry to much about what mom thinks about how I live my life.

EDIT: No offense intended by that... just the way I think.
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But Mike, my mommy won't love me unless I think exactly the way she thinks :barf:

Yep, she can have her opinions. I was more interested in other people's thoughts/ opinions/ knowledge about how often it actually happens, and strategies and tactics to prevent it. I'm pretty surprised at how long this thread lasted.

Thanks for the link validballad. I guess the thug brandishing the gun in peoples' faces lacked situational awareness and was not up to speed with tactics for weapons retention in a close quarters scenario:rolleyes: Too much sarcasm bleeding in to my post here...must be time to hit the hay.

Seriously though, I'm glad he got what he deserved.
 
I wouldn't worry about it... not one little bit. And I wouldn't even try to defend my decision either. I wouldn't be rude or disrespectful but I wouldn't argue about it. Again though... that's just me.
 
So mommy thinks you shouldn't have a gun at all, correct? And nobody else should, either? She must not have raised you according to her beliefs! :)
 
I'm sorry I don't have a link but I do seem to recall an incident where a guy that was carrying had his gun snatched while he was in line to check out at a convenience store. He then chased the crook around the store trying to get his gun back until he was shot dead. I only mention this to say that if you chose to open carry make sure to get a holster with some kind of active retention. Other than that I think the odds would be slim.
 
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