This is some extremely true stuff right here.
Progressive Press Opinions
- Thread starter J_McLeod
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This is some extremely true stuff right here.
I've wondered where the 550b gets its speed. I've owned all the Dillon presses except the SD. To be honest I don't find the 650 to be much faster then a 550. The only reason I sold the 550 was I will not own a progressive press without a powdercheck die.
Either will work and I'm not going to say one is better then the other. I've been looking for a Hornady to compare to the Dillon line.
Why some people feel the need to deprime, size and prime off the progressive has puzzled me. To me that's like buying a car with a v8 and pulling 2 spark plugs off.
Why some people feel the need to deprime, size and prime off the progressive has puzzled me. To me that's like buying a car with a v8 and pulling 2 spark plugs off.
Master Blaster
Member
Because its well designed, and the ergonomics are very good for setting the new case and indexing and setting the bullet. I find the LNL to be poorly laid out, it takes me much longer to set the bullet and the new case.
Master Blaster, you may be right. My friend has the LnL and I've tried it a couple of times. To me I feel awkward feeding it. I attributed this to using Dillons but I just can't get over the awkward feeling.
When I owned a 550 I was amazed that it almost matches the speed of the 650 which has a case feeder. The 550 was a good press to learn on in my opinion.
When I owned a 550 I was amazed that it almost matches the speed of the 650 which has a case feeder. The 550 was a good press to learn on in my opinion.
thorn-
Member
I really don't understand the awkwardness regarding the LNP.
- You keep your right hand always on the handle.
- Place shell. When ram raises, pick up bullet with left hand.
- When ram is lowering, place bullet as it hits bottom.
- Raise ram, pick up shell.
- Place shell. Repeat.
If if had a widget that would place brass upright at my fingertips, I wouldn't even consider the need for a shell feeder. What's the awkward part?
thorn
- You keep your right hand always on the handle.
- Place shell. When ram raises, pick up bullet with left hand.
- When ram is lowering, place bullet as it hits bottom.
- Raise ram, pick up shell.
- Place shell. Repeat.
If if had a widget that would place brass upright at my fingertips, I wouldn't even consider the need for a shell feeder. What's the awkward part?
thorn
1. Different strokes for different folks.
2. i cannot inspect the primers until after the case is loaded.
3. The progressive press mounted primer systems are not reliable enough in my opinion. Without inspection capabilities, it must be 100% reliable. I gave up trying to make them 100% reliable. I was wasting too much time fixing errant or missing primers.
4. I am not real excited about prepping brass, i would rather do it in small quantities after shooting and store it away for future reloading.
5. While I know all the stories about cleaning primer pockets, it makes me feel better to tumble the brass after depriming. If i feel better about my reloads I will shoot better. Might as well resize the brass when depriming.
6. I find the progressives run more smoothly if you do not resize while reloading. Also, resizing goes lickity split when that is the only task being done on the progressive.
7. i can hand prime 100 cases as fast as it takes me to fill a primer tube.
8. i enjoy reloading.
9. As i said before, different strokes for different folks. It is what makes the world go around.
It is more like running a V8 with a four barrel carb and electing to not open the secondaries.
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It is kind of what you get used to.
My first progressive was a Hornady L-N-L. I got used to keeping my right hand on the lever.
I have added a couple Dillon SDBs that are dedicated to particular cartridges. It is less efficient to me to place cases in the press with my right hand and the bullet with my left.
But some of that inefficiency is a result of the layout of my reloading set up.
I like both the L-N-L and the SDB but each have their positives and negatives.
billybob44
Contributing Member
Same here, except, I have had my 550 since the mid '80's
Tango Sierra
Member
Reloading with the Dillon RL550B is a three step process for me.
When all Four stations are loaded and ready:
1.) Simultaneously I pull the lever down with my right hand while picking up a bullet with my left hand and while raising the lever I visually check that the primer cup has a new primer in it and as I finish the stroke to insert the new primer in the casing I look to see if I have a correct powder drop.
2.)While using my right hand to pick up a new brass case my left hand advances the shell plate and I'm also looking to see that the primer cup is empty.
3,) While watching the bullet my left hand inserts a new bullet and simultaneously my right hand inserts a brass casing and I make sure it is inserted properly by feel.
Repeat steps one though three until you run out of either primers, powder, bullets or brass cases.
I don't reload at Dillon's advertised rate of 500-600 rounds per hour. Because I'm visually checking everything every time I pull the lever, I'm loading 280-300 rounds per hour which also includes time to refill the bullet tray, brass tray and the primer magazine (using a RF100). My 550 is mounted on a 36-1/2 inch high workbench using a Dillon Strong Mount which gives an additional press height of 8-3/8 inches. The shell plate area is well lighted from above on both sides
When all Four stations are loaded and ready:
1.) Simultaneously I pull the lever down with my right hand while picking up a bullet with my left hand and while raising the lever I visually check that the primer cup has a new primer in it and as I finish the stroke to insert the new primer in the casing I look to see if I have a correct powder drop.
2.)While using my right hand to pick up a new brass case my left hand advances the shell plate and I'm also looking to see that the primer cup is empty.
3,) While watching the bullet my left hand inserts a new bullet and simultaneously my right hand inserts a brass casing and I make sure it is inserted properly by feel.
Repeat steps one though three until you run out of either primers, powder, bullets or brass cases.
I don't reload at Dillon's advertised rate of 500-600 rounds per hour. Because I'm visually checking everything every time I pull the lever, I'm loading 280-300 rounds per hour which also includes time to refill the bullet tray, brass tray and the primer magazine (using a RF100). My 550 is mounted on a 36-1/2 inch high workbench using a Dillon Strong Mount which gives an additional press height of 8-3/8 inches. The shell plate area is well lighted from above on both sides
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Master Blaster
Member
You got the first part Right YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND. How could you? Do you have a 550 you have been using for the last 14 years alongside the LNL you have had for 6 years? Have you loaded thousands of round on both presses?
No??
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I agree with several of the others about doing each stage in steps.
1. De-prime and tumble
2. Resize (Not so bad with pistol but a pain with rifle(needs lubing) and I am in the habit of my stages)
3. Prime and store-Not sure about the inspection part as I am able to feel the primer seat in this stage but just in case I do look when bagging for storage.
4. Load er up.
This is a very interesting thread and I enjoy all the comments except the
derogatory comments about the loaders. Each swear by the one they use, however that does not make any of the other loaders worthless IMO.
The Coz
1. De-prime and tumble
2. Resize (Not so bad with pistol but a pain with rifle(needs lubing) and I am in the habit of my stages)
3. Prime and store-Not sure about the inspection part as I am able to feel the primer seat in this stage but just in case I do look when bagging for storage.
4. Load er up.
This is a very interesting thread and I enjoy all the comments except the
derogatory comments about the loaders. Each swear by the one they use, however that does not make any of the other loaders worthless IMO.
The Coz
OP here are some articles to help you out.
http://www.comrace.ca/cmfiles/dillonLeeHornadyComparison.pdf
and
http://www.handloads.com/articles/default.asp?id=26
The 2nd is for the RCBS Pro 2000 which you can't get a lot of information/reviews on since not many people comment on it (read the article for why).
The current popular progressives on the market right now are (in no particular order):
Dillon XL 650 (ie. Blue religion)
Hornady lock n load (ie. Red religion)
RCBS Pro 2000 Auto (ie. Green religion)
Lee Pro 1000 Progressive (ie. Yellow religion)
Like real religions all have their fanactics and all have pros/cons to them.
What I have found out is that the customer service from all the companies is great, the presses work and help is only a phone call away from the companies.
http://www.comrace.ca/cmfiles/dillonLeeHornadyComparison.pdf
and
http://www.handloads.com/articles/default.asp?id=26
The 2nd is for the RCBS Pro 2000 which you can't get a lot of information/reviews on since not many people comment on it (read the article for why).
The current popular progressives on the market right now are (in no particular order):
Dillon XL 650 (ie. Blue religion)
Hornady lock n load (ie. Red religion)
RCBS Pro 2000 Auto (ie. Green religion)
Lee Pro 1000 Progressive (ie. Yellow religion)
Like real religions all have their fanactics and all have pros/cons to them.
What I have found out is that the customer service from all the companies is great, the presses work and help is only a phone call away from the companies.
jgh4445
Member
Check my post in the "sell" section. Just might be what you need.
Cop Bob
Member
I have three recommendations..
Dillon
Dillon
and Dillon... Great Design, Ease of maintenance, Set up/caliber changes not difficult, customer support is the world model for any business... they are bullet proof...
Dillon
Dillon
and Dillon... Great Design, Ease of maintenance, Set up/caliber changes not difficult, customer support is the world model for any business... they are bullet proof...
He's right, you have to try the different presses to experience what just feels right. To me the 550 is just designed to flow. The 650 doesn't even feel the same.
I'm not saying the LnL isn't designed right, I'm just saying I feel somewhat awkward loading on it. I'm sure if I spent more time with it I'd adjust.
thorn-
Member
You're correct; I haven't loaded thousands on a Dillon. I have loaded thousands on the LNL, though. So - educate me. How is it more awkward to keep on hand on the handle, and feed bullets/brass on the left side as I typed it out? I've found it to be a rather fluid process.
.
I suppose if you're used to one thing for years, another will feel odd - so, on that I can understand.
thorn
+1
The extra time you spend manually de-priming and priming is probably the amount of time you should spend to inspect your brass before you put it in your dillion, and index manually and place shells in manually and pluck primers with a tube.
The lee is cheap, and to make it 100% reliable it only costs $30 more in machines to take out 2 steps. i don't see what is so great about the dillion that costs much more.
Its easy to see right down into shells to make sure they have the usual dose of powder.
Takes me 5 minutes or less to change to different pistol calibers.
which is what the lee 1000 is intended for.
J_McLeod
Member
Thanks everyone for all the input. I appreciate it. After reading all the comments and all the links I ordered a LNL from grafs today and shellplates for 40 and 9 from Midway. I also ordered a powder cop die since I didn't really know what they were previously and decided I wanted one, which meant five stations. One of the most important things to me was caliber changes and auto indexing (extra safety against a double charge), and it sounded like the LNL was the winner for that. I thought long and hard about the Dillons and almost drove down to the factory. Eventually I'll get one of those Dillon power trimmers for .223.
I've still been trying to make the pro1000 work, and have failed after 4-6 hours this week. It's not worth it to me to have a progressive and have to prime off the press. I can go faster than that with my turret.
I've still been trying to make the pro1000 work, and have failed after 4-6 hours this week. It's not worth it to me to have a progressive and have to prime off the press. I can go faster than that with my turret.
Master Blaster
Member
Thorn; the thing is that you are going to great trouble to refute each of my posts which come from actual experience with both machines. The original poster asked for some input on a choice of reloading machines, so that is what I provided to him, my Opinion based on experience and use of the two presses.
I really don't feel a need to convince you.
Have a nice day
I really don't feel a need to convince you.
Have a nice day
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J_McLeod
Enjoy your new progressive press.
Do not feel bad about not succumbing to the "Blue Flu". Either press would serve you well but I feel the Dillon blow hards are Dillon's worst enemy.
I use a Hornady powder cop die and it works. I put a Lee die lock ring on it for easy adjusting between cartridges. It is one of the few uses I have for a Lee lock ring. I guess you could also just not clamp the lock ring that comes with the die.
Some folks like the RCBS lock out die. It locks up the press if the powder charge is too high or low.
Some folks install the press so that they can see in the case and visually check the powder level.
So, you have several options to explore.
I have a powder drop die and powder measure rotor insert for each cartridge. Not a requirement but it makes cartridge changes go more quickly.
Bushings for each die is also not a necessity, you could set the lock ring on the die and swap them out at cartridge changes. Again, it makes life a little easier.
Enjoy your new progressive press.
Do not feel bad about not succumbing to the "Blue Flu". Either press would serve you well but I feel the Dillon blow hards are Dillon's worst enemy.
I use a Hornady powder cop die and it works. I put a Lee die lock ring on it for easy adjusting between cartridges. It is one of the few uses I have for a Lee lock ring. I guess you could also just not clamp the lock ring that comes with the die.
Some folks like the RCBS lock out die. It locks up the press if the powder charge is too high or low.
Some folks install the press so that they can see in the case and visually check the powder level.
So, you have several options to explore.
I have a powder drop die and powder measure rotor insert for each cartridge. Not a requirement but it makes cartridge changes go more quickly.
Bushings for each die is also not a necessity, you could set the lock ring on the die and swap them out at cartridge changes. Again, it makes life a little easier.
Blue68f100
Member
Enjoy your new press it will server you good for many years. Dillons have not had any competition for years and Blues are having trouble with that. There is no dought the 650 is a good machine but all things mechanical that require someone to setup and operate will get a slightly different results. I have had my LNL-AP for over 3 yrs maybe coming up on 4 yrs now the primer system will can can work 100% if it's setup right. The LNL has a lot fewer parts than the dillon and I liked the simplicity of the LNL. When you get it follow the directions step by step as you set it up. Play close attention to the indexing check and primer setup. Mine is 100%, so if you do your part there will be no problems. I just ordered some more bushing for my dies. I have started loading rifle again and need some more bushing. You can get by by just unscrewing dies but that is pain every time you do a change over. If I recall the LNL powder measure comes with the Large (Rifle) Rotor installed, so you will need to change it to the small one to load pistol ammo.
Hornady has a 1st Class CS so if you run in to problems you can give them a call or just post here. I'm sure you will get a answer in any case.
As you get comfortable with the press you will start adding on things like the Micrometer head for the powder piston. Brass feeder if you did not order it with one. Just remember the feeder does not come with the brass shell plates.
Enjoy you have a press that will last a lifetime and make reloading a joy.
Hornady has a 1st Class CS so if you run in to problems you can give them a call or just post here. I'm sure you will get a answer in any case.
As you get comfortable with the press you will start adding on things like the Micrometer head for the powder piston. Brass feeder if you did not order it with one. Just remember the feeder does not come with the brass shell plates.
Enjoy you have a press that will last a lifetime and make reloading a joy.
NoAlibi
Member
I'm glad I recommended a Dillon 550 to a friend and now I have two of the 550s. He loved his 550, but he moved to a hostile gun environment in New Jersey, so he sent his to me as a Christmas gift many moons ago.
I could still be very satisfied with just one Dillon 550, but with two you never have to change the primer setup. The manual indexing just removes what is usually a finicky operation (auto indexing) on most progressive presses and I don't feel at all deprived.....Doc
I could still be very satisfied with just one Dillon 550, but with two you never have to change the primer setup. The manual indexing just removes what is usually a finicky operation (auto indexing) on most progressive presses and I don't feel at all deprived.....Doc
J_McLeod
Member
I may still get a Dillon eventually.
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