Purchase Denied

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People buy used guns all the time. How's the dealer to know if one of his friends bought it, didn't like it and sold it a few weeks later, happens all the time. The OP heard about it and bought it. YMMV

NYH1!
 
I want to make it clear that I'm not advocating anyone do anything that will get themselves or anyone else in trouble. Just thought I'd through the above out there. Don't get yourself in trouble though.

Sorry, NYH1! :)
 
"I'm not advocating anyone do anything that will get themselves or anyone else in trouble."

well then don't
the topic was whether or not entering your SSN, optional, is a personal security risk
it's not about how to fool law enforcement

BTW, welcome to THR, hope you stay long, and enjoy it as much as we do
(I admire your taste in pump action rifles)
 
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well then don't
the topic was whether or not entering your SSN, optional, is a personal security risk
it's not about how to fool law enforcement
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Just trying to help the OP get the rifle he wants. There's more then one way to skin a cat, legally too. When I bought my 7600 a few weeks ago I filled the paper work out and put my SS # on it without even thinking about it. I've always done it. I have an unrestricted pistol permit. I had to put my SS# on four different forms, I've been told one go's to the local police, the Sheriff's keep one (they handle the pistol permits), one go's to the State Troopers and one go's to the FBI.

My dealer is a good friend of mine and IIRC, unless something happens with my rifle the paper work will just be filed away in his possession. I know he has to give the State Troopers spent casings of new pistols that are purchased. If they don't come with spent casings from the manufacture, a Trooper comes to his house (where his shop is) and he shoots two rounds and sends the spent casings to the Troopers data base they keep. He hasn't said much about dealing with the BATF, I don't know if they look at customers forms or not. He did say when he started the process of becoming a FFL dealer a few years ago that the BATF was the easiest to deal with. They came to his house, checked his shop out, put his alarm system and his chocolate lab down as a guard dog lol, as security and left.

BTW, welcome to THR, hope you stay long, and enjoy it as much as we do
(I admire your taste in pump action rifles)
Click to expand...

Thanks, I'll come and go with the seasons. This is car season but I had major back surgery in March so I can't do much work on the Camaro. So I'm getting an early start on guns and hunting, won't be able to hunt like I normally do. I'll get some in though. I traded my Winchester model 88 308 Win. to get the 7600 carbine 30-06 Spr. I think it'll work out better for me as my main hunting rifle/carbine. Might go later today to sight it in.

NYH1!
 
My friends, pretty much anyone you think you are keeping your ssn from by not putting on the buy papers already knows it anyway. Except maybe the clerk.
 
I have a local gun shop that has in the past told me they would keep the gun and the money if one of their customers was denied on the NICS. I just about pooped when they told me that.

So I will never have this store special order anything for me and if I buy a gun that's in stock I will never pay until AFTER the NICS check. Turns out I haven't bought a gun from them in years because of their comment.
 
I never give my ss, and have never had a problem, even asking "or telling" dealers at gun shows, "people I don't know", especially. They have never given me a problem. Usually they say don't worry most peole don't do it anymore. Having had my Identity frauud from somone getting my Visa #, "which isn't even from your doing , rather it's from a database they either bought or stole from someone else who hacked a store's security" I put an alert on my cards from anyone of the 3 credit bureaus, "it's free" and they do the other 2 as a curtosy for free. I think that's another good reason to have a permit, they see that and don't bother even asking as the ATF has all your stuff on file, or at least know it's beed verified before.
The problem is that the guy still has yor ss, and name and address, and may try to open accounts you never even know of until you get a bill year later.
 
Just yesterday I had a mind boggling NICS experience. Up until I turned 21 I got delayed on every long gun I purchased. As soon as I hit 21, though, I got approved. Yesterday I was browsing one of many local gun shops and saw a Hi Standard 1911 for about $300, used. Fit and finish were pretty good save for a single tool mark, trigger felt good, barrel was in good shape. I figured if nothing else, $300 is a reasonable investment for a "project" 1911 if there WERE problems with functionality. Filled out the form, incl. SS#, then, poof. Delay. I can't think of a single reason why.
 
If you were denied the FBI has a record of it:

http://www.atf.gov/publications/newsletters/ffl/ffl-newsletter-2011-09.pdf

From page 8:

Processing a NICS Denied Transaction When a Final Status is Provided by the NICS Section

As of May 2, 2011, the NICS Section began a pilot project requesting the following from all denied individuals, phrased as follows:
- Please provide the denied individual’s address.
- Was this transaction conducted at a gun show?
- If yes, please provide the location (city and state) of the gun show.
 
NYH1 said:
People buy used guns all the time. How's the dealer to know if one of his friends bought it, didn't like it and sold it a few weeks later, happens all the time. The OP heard about it and bought it. YMMV

NYH1!
Click to expand...
Yes they do ... but remember, if you are DENIED, you are being told that you are, in the eyes if the NICS a prohibited person.

It is illegal for a prohibited person to acquire and or possess a firearm, regardless of where they get it from. (which is I guess why they call them PROHIBITED)

If you want to own firearms, legally, and you get a DENY, you gotta get that thing fixed.
 
mgkdrgn said:
Yes they do ... but remember, if you are DENIED, you are being told that you are, in the eyes if the NICS a prohibited person.

It is illegal for a prohibited person to acquire and or possess a firearm, regardless of where they get it from. (which is I guess why they call them PROHIBITED)

If you want to own firearms, legally, and you get a DENY, you gotta get that thing fixed.
Click to expand...

I must disagree with you. A NICS denial in no way makes a person prohibited from owning firearms. Please show me the statute that says it does. There's a handy list repeated several times in 18 USC 922. Nowhere in that list does NICS denial appear. All a NICS denial suggests is that there is information to INDICATE that the potential buyer MIGHT be prohibited. The NICS denial in no way CAUSES the person to be a prohibited person.

For example, if my daughter or son who has lived with me for 18 years, when he/she turns 18 tries to buy a rifle and gets a NICS denial, I am perfectly legal to give him/her a rifle as a gift because he/she has lived with me for 18 years and I have no REASONABLE cause to believe he/she is a prohibited person. NICS denial does not provide REASONABLE cause to believe that person you have personally known for their entire life is prohibited because look at how many people have erroneous NICS denials wiped out on appeal.

It is merely illegal for an FFL to transfer a gun to a person with a NICS denial. Just like it is illegal for an FFL to transfer a handgun to an 18 year old, but in most states they are not prohibited from buying the exact same gun in a private intrastate sale.
 
What luck you have, same name and birth date of a felon? You should go buy lottery tickets immediately.

I always put my SS number down. I feel like it will help identify me if something is incorrect. One time I got denied (and my heart stopped beating) because my FFL accidentally typed the wrong letter in my last time. He just made a quick call and they were able to correct it immediately.
 
I have one question about so called straw purchases? I read on many forums that this shiny new or used firearm was a " Gift " from my wife, husband, father, uncle. How is a gift from someone legal or illegal?
 
You purchase a firearm using your own money. You give it to your wife, brother, friend, etc (assuming it's transferred lawfully, e.g. not across state lines without an FFL, or to someone who is not a prohibited person). Perfectly legal.

Your friend or brother gives you money to buy a firearm. You buy the firearm and give it to the person who gave you the money. Not legal (even if the recipient is not a prohibited person).
 
The gift is illegal if the relative bought the gun for you knowing you wouldn't pass NICS.

Sent from my LG-P999 using Tapatalk
 
Yes they do ... but remember, if you are DENIED, you are being told that you are, in the eyes if the NICS a prohibited person.

It is illegal for a prohibited person to acquire and or possess a firearm, regardless of where they get it from. (which is I guess why they call them PROHIBITED)

If you want to own firearms, legally, and you get a DENY, you gotta get that thing fixed.
Click to expand...
I've legally owned firearms since I was 18, half my life. I have a concealed carry pistol permit and own handguns, rifles and shotguns. I've never been denied. Usually the dealer is on the phone doing my transaction for 2 or 3 minutes as with most people, then I'm (we're) all set.

So if I go to purchase a firearm tomorrow and get denied for some reason, you're telling me I have to get rid of every firearm I already legally own?? :confused:
 
I have a local gun shop that has in the past told me they would keep the gun and the money if one of their customers was denied on the NICS.
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And that would be called theft. There is certainly nothing in the law that gives the FFL holder the right to keep money on a denied sale. I would certainly agree to avoid doing buisness with a self-professed criminal. :rolleyes:
 
Here's a question, How about a person who you sell or buy a gun from, how do you know they were a felon, say 20 -40 years ago, unless they tell you. If you ask them and they say no, then that's that. I can see a lot of guns getting in the hands of felons who buy on websites like pennysavers and people walking around at gun shows. Kind of makes the whole thing silly if it's that easy to circumvent.
 
gym said:
Here's a question, How about a person who you sell or buy a gun from, how do you know they were a felon, say 20 -40 years ago, unless they tell you. If you ask them and they say no, then that's that. I can see a lot of guns getting in the hands of felons who buy on websites like pennysavers and people walking around at gun shows. Kind of makes the whole thing silly if it's that easy to circumvent.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's silly at all. I think it puts the responsiblity where it belongs, squarely on those knowingly committing criminal acts. Why should I be regulated by the government in selling a gun to my next door neighbor whom I have known for years? Or be regulated by the government in selling or giving a gun to my son or daughter?

If you knowingly provide a prohibited person with a gun, they you have committed a criminal act, and you should be held responsible.

If a prohibited person knowingly lies to you and knowing that they are prohibited receives the firearm from you, then they have committed a criminal act and should be held responsible.
 
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