Purchase my first AR yesterday.

[Bigmike79]

Being that I live in a state that is starting to get stupid with the gun control stuff, I decided to buy an AR yesterday. I had been considering getting a mini 14 or 30, but got talked out of it after posting a thread on the subject.

Anyways I bought a Colt M4 carbine. I picked her up for a little under a grand, and took her out to the woods this morning. While I'm shot plenty of AR variants, this is my first time shooting one that wasn't covered with a bunch of tacticool stuff.

I got to be honest, I'm not really all that impressed. It feels cheap for $1,000 gun, the round feels weak when compared to my AK or SKS, and the accuracy isn't anything special with iron sights (for me). I'm sure if I keep shooting it my accuracy will improve, but after getting it sited in, I was no more accurate at 75 yards than I am with my AK or my lever 30/30.

I'm still glad I purchased it, as this is one of those rifles that undoubtably won't be available at some point. I'm thinking about putting some type of Optics on it. I figure if I'm just as accurate using iron sights with my AK, I might as well utilize the range of the 5.56 cartridge on my new AR with Optics.


I've used red dot systems with 22 long rifle and on some of the ARs that I have shot. I thought they were pretty neat, but they were made for closer Ranges than I'm looking to shoot.

What are my options with Red Dot sights designed for longer ranges? Any suggestions on smaller tactical style traditional scopes instead?

 

[entropy]

1-<insert as high a number as your wallet allows here> scopes are much handier on an AR than red dot, particularly if the scope has an illuminated reticle. Many made for AR's do.
I plan on putting one of these on my AR when finances allow:
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/3...s-first-focal-illuminated-btr-1-reticle-matte

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

Many manufacturers make dedicated AR scopes. I'm partial to Burris, but that's just me.

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

As far as red dots, I have no problem banging 8x11 steel plates at 100yds just about as fast as I can pull the trigger. What I would call combat accuracy.

Spend some more time with your AR. If you want more distance put a decent scope on.

As to the "weakness" felt from the 223, that's part of the appeal to the gun, the minimal recoil. The round itself is plenty capable of most tasks.

 

[Bigmike79]

As far as red dots, I have no problem banging 8x11 steel plates at 100yds just about as fast as I can pull the trigger. What I would call combat accuracy.

Spend some more time with your AR. If you want more distance put a decent scope on.

As to the "weakness" felt from the 223, that's part of the appeal to the gun, the minimal recoil. The round itself is plenty capable of most tasks.

I have no doubt that it's a capable round. The super light recoil adds the cheapness feel to the rifle for me though. I just got done taking it apart a bit ago, and it just doesn't seem like a thousand dollar gun at all. I realize they make or you can build much cheaper AR's, but I had a few people that I trust tell me to just buy a Colt and call it a day if I have the money to blow. I'm sure it's a high quality rifle, but compared to a thousand dollar bolt gun, revolver, shotgun, etc.......it looks and feels like a toy.

 

[Klint Beastwood]

Primary arms

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

While I don't mean to bash more expensive guns, I've found from my experience that a lot of the time many platforms tend to be very similar in quality while a fairly large difference in cost exists.

My sole AR was $499 a few years ago. It probably "feels" just as cheap as more expensive guns, but in all honesty its probably more the platform more than anything.

You have to bear in mind that an AR has fairly loose tolerances and is fairly lightweight. I've held $2000+ DD rifles in the store that had just as much play between the upper and lower as my $500 gun.

I'm sure your Colt is fine you just have to accept it for what it is, or not.

 

[Jackal]

Get a good red dot with a small 2moa dot size. 300 yard hits are doable. 200 yard hits are super easy. Primary Arms advanced or Holosun offer great budget friendly models. I routinely hunt coyotes with my red dots out to 250m.

 

[bluejeans]

Sight in your red dot so you aim with the top curve of the dot rather than covering the target with it... keeps the dot relevant at longer ranges or smaller targets up close.

As to feeling cheap I wouldn’t know.. I’ve never shot an expensive ar.. but I do believe that after the first thousand rounds it will be feeling much smoother

 

[primalmu]

Well, first off, its my opinion that you paid roughly $300-400 extra for the Colt roll mark. They are fine rifles, I'm sure, but its kind of like buying a Harley -- part of the price is a premium for the name. The good news is it will hold its value better than, say, a Rock River Arms AR if you decide to sell it.

My question is: What were your expectations? The beauty of the AR-15 platform is its simplicity and modularity. I only own one store bought AR-15, a Rock River Arms, and even then its no longer in its stock configuration. I removed the gas block/sight and installed a free float ALG Defense hand guard. My other rifles have been built at home. The cheap feel of many AR-15s can be remedied with a higher quality hand guard and a better stock (Magpul is a cost-effective alternative).

Here's my current "high end" rifle, a DIY 6.5 Grendel. Nothing cheap feeling about it, and it's accurate to boot.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

I have no doubt that it's a capable round. The super light recoil adds the cheapness feel to the rifle for me though. I just got done taking it apart a bit ago, and it just doesn't seem like a thousand dollar gun at all. I realize they make or you can build much cheaper AR's, but I had a few people that I trust tell me to just buy a Colt and call it a day if I have the money to blow. I'm sure it's a high quality rifle, but compared to a thousand dollar bolt gun, revolver, shotgun, etc.......it looks and feels like a toy.

I was 40 before I got my first .223 and acquired my first AR a year later......having been raised on Garands and Mausers, it was quite a change!
I have quickly come to appreciate the round and gun for their economy, simplicity, utility, and fun factor! It is a platform and cartridge which does almost everything well (or at least well enough).

Building my third now......

 

[Water-Man]

OP,

Spend some time on M4Carbine.net and gain some knowledge about ARs. You may not know it now, but you'll learn you made an excellent choice on your purchase of the Colt.

 

[Bigmike79]

Well, first off, its my opinion that you paid roughly $300-400 extra for the Colt roll mark. They are fine rifles, I'm sure, but its kind of like buying a Harley -- part of the price is a premium for the name. The good news is it will hold its value better than, say, a Rock River Arms AR if you decide to sell it.

Colt makes the closest thing you can get to the real deal, so you're going to pay for that alone. From the few guys which I personally know and trust in my circle that are really into the AR platform, I was told universally that the Colt LE9620 was hands down the most durable and reliable of the top off the shelf brand offerings. All of these guys own and build lots of these rifles as well as competitively shoot them, so I was comfortable in taking their advice. One of them is also a part time smith, and said that the difference in quality between the the Colt and cheaper offerings like Ruger, Mossberg, or S&W is night and day.
with that being said, I get what you're saying, as I have never felt Colts 1911's were any better than a lot of the offering priced a few hundred dollars less.

My question is: What were your expectations?

I guess I just expected a rifle the looks, feels, and shoots of more quality for such I high price. It just feels like a jangly cheap gun. I guess that I have never noticed how cheap these rifles feel until now.

 

[LoonWulf]

Build a low cost larger caliber upper to go with your Colt m4.
I honestly have little love for shooting the m4 variants of the platform, and in general I much prefer the bigger cartridges, like the 6.5 or .458 socom.

The difference between handling on 400 and 1000 dollar bolt guns is usually more than between 400 and 1000 dollar AR. My 350 dollar gun is tighter than any of the Colt m4s I've handled, but if I had to fight with the gun for an extended time I'd prefer to have the Colt just because they do tend to be very reliable.

 

[Danoobie]

...it looks and feels like a toy.

That's been a common response to the AR carbine going on 60 years now. You'll be glad you got a Colt, tho, at one point or another. You can do a lot
worse, but you can't do a whole lot better for twice the price. Don't get me wrong, there are arguably better ARs out there, just not for what you paid.

 

[Phaedrus/69]

I only have one AR, a CORE with a 14" Keymod rail. Honestly I think it's at least as good as a Colt and I doubt I'd trade if for anything short of a BCM. Of course, I've finally got it set up the way I want it (eg SOPMOD Bravo stock, BCM Gunfighter MOD 0 grip, stubby VFG, Inforce WML and until recently, an Aimpoint PRO optic). Still, I have some mixed feelings about the whole AR platform that have more to do with me than the gun. Overall I like the ergos; it points well, is accurate and easy to shoot well. Yet the charging handle is still counterintuitive to me as I'm really used to your HK-pattern guns. But to me the pro's outweigh the con's and I will probably always have an AR as long as it's possible.

Recently I picked up a CZ Bren 805. It's too early to say if it's going to be reliable (although it seems extraordinarily well made) but already I like it more than the AR. It's heavier and probably won't be as accurate but the manual of arms is more familiar to me and more to my liking. Again, eventually with enough time behind an AR I know I'll get more used to it.

I do kind of think that every law-abiding, mentally competent American should own an AR of some kind. In my mind it's the rifle of the 21st century militia.

 

[Robert]

While I like Colt, $400 was for the name alone...

I run a 4x ACOG on my mix master left over parts built rifle and have made com hits out to 600 on torso sized steel plates. With proper hand loads it can make 5 round groups the size of my thumb nail at 100y off a bag. Though mine is a rifle with a 20" barrel, not a carbine.

 

[brasscollector]

Building my third now......

Build a low cost larger caliber upper to go with your Colt m4.

Ah, picked up your first AR... You will need to make some more room in your safe, they are known to multiply.

 

[Old Guy]

I truly believe we all need a Carbine style rifle, at least one, mainly because of all these bleating anti-gun liberals saying we should not own them!

Must say I do not own an AR, just an AK47, purchased from a Pawn Shop, the owner had purchased them new and never fired either one, was thinning out his collection of safe queens. My Buddy and I put first dibs on these rifles, waited the required 3 months, and for a reasonable price bought them.

The AR charging handle? Rubbish. The AK, and my Steyr AUG? Charging handles being forward where they should be? Great.
Mind you, if you gravitate towards the AR platform, good for you.
One last thing, calling an AR an Assault Rifle? Can not these liberal fools not understand an assault rifle is a select fire, full auto weapon! Issued to our military, we can not buy them.

Might there be a time when our carbines are required, in a defensive way, to protect us and our families?

Not sure, but I have them.

 

[Choctaw]

We have real-deal Colt M4s at work. They’re fine. My personal AR is a Ruger. It will do everything my Colt will. My agency had a rifle day yesterday. I put over a thousand rounds through my Ruger without a hitch. My Colt suffered 3 FTF in 500 rounds which is disturbing since it is my fighting rifle.

I’m not worried about a zombie apocalypse or stupid SHTF scenarios. My Ruger is my primary HD rifle and is hell on wheels on pigs.

Congratulations on deciding to join the AR ranks. I bet you will come to love that Colt. It is hard to go wrong with this platform.

 

[Demi-human]

My Adams Arms felt exactly like every Colt and Rock River I picked up, which was a lot of them. (I am an excellent and patient shopper, thanks Mom!) Even though I bought it as a blemished product for a very good deal.

Then I ordered an Aero Precision builder set. I now know why my first rifle was a blem. I do not know why the other "premium" rifles were not.

Though the fit was very loose, it is still an amazingly accurate rifle, even for being an M-forgery. I attribute some of that to the twelve power Vortex.

 

[Armored farmer]

What are my options with Red Dot sights designed for longer ranges? Any suggestions on smaller tactical style traditional scopes instead?

If smaller scopes interest you, this Nikon P223 has served me well, but best suited for <400yds.

...and for close quarters, I truly like this military grade(rugged) Sightmark reflex.
There are so many options...., best wishes.

 

[FL-NC]

Vortex 1-4 or 1-6.

 

[Bigmike79]

While I like Colt, $400 was for the name alone...

I run a 4x ACOG on my mix master left over parts built rifle and have made com hits out to 600 on torso sized steel plates. With proper hand loads it can make 5 round groups the size of my thumb nail at 100y off a bag. Though mine is a rifle with a 20" barrel, not a carbine.

If we're talking about off the shelf assembled rifles, Colt makes a $700 version of the same rifle that I purchased that is meant to compete with other ARs in that price range. Surely there are differences between said rifle and the thousand dollar version that I purchased which is built to be the closest thing you can get to an actual M4, no? From what i was told, the LE9620 is actually about as cheap as it gets to buy an assembled high quality mill spec AR.

Accuracy is sorta subjective with quality here, because this rifle is definitely set up for combat and not long range shooting or hunting.

 

[Bigmike79]

If smaller scopes interest you, this Nikon P223 has served me well, but best suited for <400yds.
View attachment 782890
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Will I need to remove the Front A2 sight to be able to utilize a small scope like this? Or is it at least recommended? What are my options for backup sights if I mount a scope like such?