"Real" reason so many trash Model 700?

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My take on CRF vs. push feed...I came to this opinion from years of M700 (and a few model 7's) actions chambered in 308 (read, short actions)

I don't care about chambering rounds while hanging upside down any more than the next guy...but its the clunky, often sticky feeding of the model 7's and 700's that I don't like. I've had 2 model 7's that would occasionally bind up completely while feeding 308's...and neither was a "budget model"...one was a stainless synthetic (nearly $800)...the 700's, most recently was the SPS Tactical (I sold that rifle on here)...it never locked plumb up like the model 7's, but I just didn't like how it fed...it felt cheap! Long action 700's...I've never had one fail to feed but more than one has failed to eject. Even that nice ADL (270 Win) that I recently bought for my wife...the plunger stuck while I was working up loads for it, and for no apparent reason (it was clean). I removed the bolt, tapped the plunger with a screwdriver and it popped right out and was good to go....easy fix, but who wants to deal with it while hunting?

The CRF actions just don't do that...they feed, fire, extract, and eject as slick as snot on a doorknob...to deny that is to deny a fact of life.

As far as the case head being shrouded...well, it is on the 700 and it ain't on the 70...is the 700 stronger in that respect...yes...but thats not saying the 70 is weak either, the model 70 is a VERY strong action...and the gas dispersal system on the new production model 70's has been improved (directing it down).

At any rate...its all in what satisfies YOU...smooth, reliable feeding, extracting, and ejecting are what satisfies ME.
 
The LE line such as the 700 Police and 700 LTR are a good value.

Roughly $1,000 gets you a parkerized finish rather than matte blued, an HS Precision stock with full length aluminum bedding block, free floated barrel, and a little more quality control.

Remington is like Smith & Wesson now a days.

A whole lot more attention goes into law enforcement and military firearms than sporting firearms. Evidently, Remington and S&W are more interested in LE and military sales than you and I.
 
I am sure Remington puts a little more work into their $1,000-$1500 rifles and I am sure they are reasonably good but I have owned rifles that will shoot every bit as well and have been a workhorse for many many years with zero issues that cost only a small fraction of that, I would honestly be surprised if one of those $1,500 high end tacticals could hang with my old $125 Savage, back to back to back semi smooth one hole groups is a tough act to follow for any rifle. I miss that old gun.
 
No, my point was for the first time in a long time they have a military contract. They might be the lowest bidder, but they are also exacting specifications. The Military does not mess around...it takes a few years to get these contracts and hundreds of thousands of rounds of testing.
 
Not to diss any military contractor, but whoever the hell built my issued M16A2 was not following any "exacting specifications" That was the jamminist gun I have ever shot anywhere (5-7 time per mag no kidding), and yes it was so clean you could eat off the bolt face.
 
That might be the exact reason Remington now has part of the contract. I wont say that my issued rifle was dependable or that it was the highest quality. But it performed enough to keep me here, and I am sure there are some cheaper versions that could not stand the abuse and rebuilding that mine had obviously seen. I am just stating that I love my new R700, would not trade it for my pre 64 M70 for anything. It might be made faster and cheaper, but it has an accuracy that tops most of my $1500 and less rifles. Maybe not all of them shoot that good, mine is just my experience. But as some were saying they were dangerous and horrible, until mine proves me wrong it has won a place in my heart. I have never had a single fail to eject or a misfire. While the x-mark trigger leave alot to be wanted it is the step that Cerberus took to make them more safe. Cerberus own a few firearm companies and I like most of their companies products... Bushmaster for example, nothing like an LAV with a Bushy cannon on top... Same parent company.
 
To each his own on what guns you admire and like. My first centerfire was a Rem. 722/222 and I got chucks and more with it. It must have been the cheapest gun my late dad could find that would not kick all that much for my 13 yo small frame.

I spent a lot of time back then in his tool and die shop and I got to operate the lathes and millers. I appreciated that good machinery and still have some of it.

By 1957 I knew I wanted a better made rifle so I ordered a M70 Varmint in 243 for both position target shooting and varmints. You can see the well made machinery in those old M70's and also see that the bolt lugs on a 722/700 are brazed onto the bolt body! Did you know that?

This is what I like. Perhaps you like cheaper stuff? I shop for lower prices on gas. What can't others like cheap guns?

Here are some of my hunting rifles at the range.

scaled.php


To each his own. :)
 
I am saying the exact opposite Savage99, the Remington has a pricepoint now along with most other entry level rifles. I consider the base 700 to be one of the cheaper magazine fed bolt rifle. The only reason I pick my 700 over the M70 my dad bought new and passed down , is accuracy. It is not as accurate. It has someones heart and soul poured into it though. It is a fine piece of craftmanship that someone was proud to assemble. Just is not a sub MOA rifle. It has a <1000 round count. As I said I am just defending my 700. To each their own and more power to them.
 
to each his own,its your dollar spend it where you want.i own rem, mauser,win,sav,sig and marlin along with others, that being said. i have not had any trouble with any that were in good condition, but each brings its own values to the shooting game and will fill a need to all. i will not enter a pissing contest with any one about what you like and use,its your trigger finger so put it on any trigger you want. eastbank.
 
They've always shot good for me. That said, reliability has been questionable and the finish on those things is just pure junk. I like to call it rem"rust" They aren't the worst rifles out there but they're far from the best.
 
Yeah, just realized that I was wrong about that it is Boeing that is the parent company of that. Cerberus bought AAC, DPMS, Bushmaster & Remington... Sorry for the confusion.
 
Nobody was saying they were top tier or anywhere near the best. Just saying that people were saying that even the newer 700's were dangerous or junk. When they ate as good as any other entry level rifle. People will stick to their own brands and the often hate the others. I in no way am knocking any other brand, I spoke from my personal experience. I like my R700 and would have no problem buying more.
 
Well it's good you've had good luck with them. I understand where you're coming from and its perfectly reasonable. I had two of them at one time and had pride in both of them. I still see no major problem with them other than they come up short when compared to howa, weatherby, or savage but cost as much.
 
eastbank, post# 38,

What statistics do you have that touts lever action rifles the most dangerous rifles to be carried? I like to see those numbers, and how many hunters have been killed using them! I've never heard such BUNK! Savage rifles are the strongest lever actions ever made. My Pop had a .300 Savage my Mom gave him in 1946, I have it now, still as strong as ever, never had a feeding problem, still shoots as accurate as it did then. Maybe you've never had the abilities to use one correctly, but don't sit behind your computer keyboard and write something as anal as what you posted, don't believe it for one second!
 
Savage99 said:
and also see that the bolt lugs on a 722/700 are brazed onto the bolt body! Did you know that?
Click to expand...

That's a sloppy description right there. When you consider the function of the bolt lugs and consider that they are integral to the front section of the bolt, this is a non-issue.
 
Ridgerunner665 said:
My take on CRF vs. push feed...I came to this opinion from years of M700 (and a few model 7's) actions chambered in 308 (read, short actions)

I don't care about chambering rounds while hanging upside down any more than the next guy...

The CRF actions just don't do that...they feed, fire, extract, and eject as slick as snot on a doorknob...to deny that is to deny a fact of life.
Click to expand...
I've seen people carry on about the CRF for years. So I tried a little experiment with my Winchester 70 Stealth .308, which is a PF. Turned it upside down and attempted to chamber a round. It chambered!

Also tried it with my older Remington 700 in .25-06, again it fed.

Haven't tried all my rifles but 2 out of 2 will feed upside down. Says a lot about CRF.
 
Savage99 said:
and also see that the bolt lugs on a 722/700 are brazed onto the bolt body! Did you know that?
Click to expand...

Umm ... that's a bolt handle not a bolt lug. I do agree with you in that I'm not a fan of the brazed on bolt handle either.
 
The CRF actions just don't do that...they feed, fire, extract, and eject as slick as snot on a doorknob...to deny that is to deny a fact of life.
Click to expand...

I had one that was WAY rough feeding, an old 93 Spanish 7x57 Mauser. My Remingtons are WAY smoother, smooth feeding as it gets. I have one old Commission Rifle that is REALLY smooth, feeding ain't any better than my Remingtons, but the bolt is so smooth, I can open it and tilt the barrel up just a little and it'll slide open on its own weight. My Remingtons take a little more tilt, but are smooth, the old 722 being glass smooth. My Savage 110 feels like it's riding on sandpaper and the barrel has to be PAST 45 degrees approaching vertical before the bolt falls open. Still works, though. It has killed a half dozen west Texas whitetail and one New Mexico mulie. Ain't dissin' the Savage as a tool, just there is no way in HELL it's as well built as my old 722 or my M7 Stainless. Yet, it still works.

The bolt on the Remington is one piece machined, perhaps not the bolt handle, but the BOLT. The Savage 110 can be disassembled. It's built of multiple pieces to reduce cost of manufacture. Savage has ALWAYS been a CHEAP entry level gun that works. The 700 is an upgrade. My Remingtons also out shoot my Savage, the old 722 by 1/2 MOA. All shoot at least 1 MOA with the right load. The Savage is harder to load for, more bullet picky. It seems to like Sierra 150 Game Kings and Nosler 160 Partitions. Some bullets I've wanted to use, like Barnes, do good to shoot 4MOA. The Remingtons have NEVER found a load worse than 1.5 MOA. I reckon the Remington 700 is as popular in bench rest as it is for a reason, called ACCURACY. Same can be said for the government sniper rifles on 700 actions.

Dis 'em all you want, but there's no way in HELL I'm going to agree that a Savage is better than a Remington ANYthing. I do own a Savage, will buy more if I want to, but they're bargain guns that work, not on a level with Klein Gunther or some such, not even with Remington's 700. :rolleyes: The new guns I'm not gong to argue about, have no experience with 'em. Mine are at least 20 years old. I know the 870 express has had its problems. I'm a duck hunter and hunt in the salt marsh, pretty harsh environment. Yeah, most guys that like 870 expresses paint 'em with rattle can paint to keep the rust off, crappy finish. They shoot, take limits of ducks, I just don't like the ergos of an 870, but I do have issues with the finish, so the comment about Remington's 700 finish interests me. My 722 is 60 years old and has been reblued, is doing well, and my Model 7 is stainless, so it doesn't CONCERN me.
 
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Before i tweeked my CRAP 770 .270win it could shoot golfballs at 100 yrds.

Some corvettes dont make it 500 miles before they break down

700's over all rock DONE
 
McGunner...I'm not singing the praises of Savage (I've never owned a Savage...except a 99 or two)...I was singing the praises of the new Winchester model 70's :)

I'm a recent convert to the Winchesters and CRF...but I do like both.


Old Remingtons never die.... but the new ones should have never been born!
 
I have no experience with Winchesters, but they went to crap in 1964 for a reason, cost of manufacture. The new ones, the classics, it is my understanding are again excellent rifles, but a step above the Remington 700 in price, at least. I have no bias to CRF, but what ever floats your boat. Lots of hype around the old Pre-64s. My uncle owned two, a .30-06 and a .308 Featherweight. He loved 'em. I never fired one and was too young to really appreciate it, anyway. :D

If that's how you wanna spend your money, knock yourself out, it's YOUR rifle. But, before you start telling me my rifles are CRAP, I invite you to the range for a shoot off. :D
 
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