Rebel flag, guns not wanted at battle event

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Desertdog

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Rebel flag, guns not wanted at battle event
Franklin officials cite safety and sensitivity
http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061004/NEWS01/610040397
By KEVIN WALTERS
Staff Writer


FRANKLIN — A Confederate battle flag and the crack of rifle fire were two of the sights and sounds Civil War soldiers faced 140 years ago.

Yet top Franklin officials contend those things, each fraught with modern symbolism and conflicts, should not be present during a Nov. 30 ceremony to commemorate those killed during the 1864 Battle of Franklin.




Mayor Tom Miller is urging that a color guard planned for the event not fly the Confederate flag. Police Chief Jackie Moore wants re-enactors to keep their rifles away from the ceremony.

"In the strongest terms possible, let me suggest that flag not appear," Miller told officials Monday night during a committee meeting to approve funding for the event.

Afterward, Miller acknowledged he might face criticism.

But he said he wants to avoid controversy that might come from flying the flag.

Moore said he wants to keep rifles away because of security issues.

"I do have serious concerns about the safety and our being able as a police department to vouch that firearms used and borne in this event are safe," Moore said.

While both men say they want to avoid conflicts, their stances have raised thorny issues about race and history.

Some say flag simply reflects history

A leading advocate for battlefield preservation, Miller stressed that the flag doesn't carry any baggage with him personally, but that others might feel differently.

"It doesn't mean anything to me," said Miller about the Confederate flag. "I accept it for what it is. It's a historic emblem. But to a lot of people, it is an anathema. And we don't need anything that could potentially polarize our community like that could."

Miller's stance drew immediate support from the Rev. Denny Denson, an African-American pastor who believes the planned event would garner little support from black Franklin residents.

"I agree with him totally," Denson said. "The Civil War means one thing to the majority culture. It means another thing to African-Americans."

Plans call for members of the Huntsville, Ala.-based Olde Towne Brass band to divide its 14 members into two bands dressed in Union and Confederate uniforms and serenade the crowd gathered in Franklin's downtown square with songs popular in that era.

They would unite and play American anthems while the Confederate flag is lowered and the American flag raised, all by the light of 10,000 votive candles.

Bob Baccus said his band stays out of politics, doesn't fly flags and wants to educate.

"We try to be historically correct in everything we do and everything we play. We try to stay out of politics," Baccus said. "We want to play the music the way it was played 150 years ago. We try to educate our audience."

Black and white members of Franklin's Battlefield Task Force that designed the ceremony, as well as re-enactors, politicians and others, fired back at Miller's suggestion to keep flags away.

"If you're doing a ceremony where you're honoring men of two sides and you do away or ban the symbolism of one side, what does that do?" asked committee member Robin Hood, who said he dislikes how the Confederate flag has been used by hate groups who have "sort of kidnapped that flag" for their own uses. But erasing it from the event will cause only more problems, he feared.

Pearl Bransford, a longtime resident and committee member, supported the group's plan because it presents both sides of the fighting — and is a reminder of that war's hard-won, bloody lessons.

"Don't be afraid to talk about the Civil War," said Bransford, who is black. "It had a lot of ugliness in it. Out of that ugliness came freed people. There were people in bondage. … The Civil War freed me and my people. If it wasn't for the Civil War, I would be somebody's slave. And those days are over."

Meanwhile, Miller's comments left Williamson County Civil War re-enactor Ronny Mangrum, 49, outraged enough to reconsider his donation to help the city buy battlefield land in Franklin. Mangrum is known by many for his barefoot marches from Columbia to Franklin on the anniversary of the battle.

"How can we properly honor these men who fought and died for this flag because we're not allowed to carry one today because of political correctness?" Mangrum said. "My God, what in the world is happening to our town?"

Chief cites safety issues

Moore's problem with the events stems from the historically accurate guns that might be brought to the event by re-enactors and enthusiasts.

"My concern is for the safety of the re-enactors and anyone else who happens to be in attendance," Moore said. "Weapons, no matter what age they are, were designed in such a manner as to kill human beings."

Instead of re-enactors carrying rifles or firearms during the ceremony, Moore wants attendees to stack the arms beforehand outside the public square.

Moore's recommendation left Franklin Alderman Dana McLendon incredulous.

"They're six feet long and 200 years old," exclaimed McLendon. "We're not talking about people walking around with Glocks and AK (47)s."

Final approval for funding the ceremony, as well as a permit to hold it, has to be given by city officials.

These discussions may be inevitable as Franklin searches for new ways to mark the 1864 battle.

"The first year of trying to get the elephant up and dancing there are going to be these kinds of problems," said Joe Smyth, president of the nonprofit Save the Franklin Battlefield Inc.

"This is a matter of working it out with officials and staff. I would expect these issues." •
 
They would unite and play American anthems while the Confederate flag is lowered and the American flag raised, all by the light of 10,000 votive candles.
I don't see anything wrong with this at all. I think the symbolism is dead on. Seems we are way too eager nowadays to pretend history we don't like doesn't exist. I guess we will have to do it all over again and see if we can learn after the umpteenth time someone tries to eradicate an entire race.

Not allowing reenacters to carry period accurate weapons definitely diminishes the presentation. And if they aren't firing or even loading them them what's all the hoopla about?
 
That is definetely a travesty, but given the leftist trend, it wouldn't shock me that they care to disintigrate their culture and history. The civil war was fought with arms, not empty handed boys. And the Southern Cross, the flag non grata, was not some evil national symbol as are those of Iran or NK or some other Communist, facist or otherwise anti American state that the left is so ready to flaunt. It was and still is a symbol of courage, a willingness to stand up for one's (percieved) rights, one's ability to stand one's ground. The South was not the party that sought seperation, but rather did all necesary to remain a union. Lincoln could have none of that- no necesary concessions, not making moves that could have prevented war altogether. Any claims of racist intentions (by the South) barely skim the surface of wars' causes, but that is not something kids will be taught. Rather Johnny was a black hating, inbred traitor. Yup, sounds like the same likes, the officials in this town in TN and those who educate the kids in the public/government schools, and most of the private ones nationwide.

Amazingly, I'm a Northerner.
 
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:confused:

Yeah, I'm sure black people would like to forget about the Civil War and gaining their freedom. If we just forget about it completely we'll be much better off. While we're at it, let's ban cotton and demolish the plantation homes.:rolleyes:
 
Wait, there was a "Civil War"?

I thought that it was just made up for that one movie!

And they had guns way back then in the Middle Ages?!!!

Wow!

:)
 
Da*n shame. To minimize one battle that was so important
in many, in a war that changed the face of America is
beyond any common sense or decently at all. I say
let em represent the Stars & Bars & Battle flags
and be allowed to carry said weapons.
 
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That is definetely a travesty, but given the leftist trend, it wouldn't shock me that they care to disintigrate their culture and history.
Re-enactor types used to annoy me, but I've laways appreciated the efforts these people go to in order to get things right. With the modern idiotic mood, I'm tempted to go get me some uniforms and muskets and join them......:fire: :fire: :fire:
 
Another generation of this nonsense, and they'll ban the confederate uniforms too. Then the reenactors can all dress up in Barney costumes and future children will think that was the cause of the War.

--Travis--

:rolleyes:
 
Another generation of this nonsense, and they'll ban the confederate uniforms too. Then the reenactors can all dress up in Barney costumes and future children will think that was the cause of the War.

You say that like it wasn't the cause of the war.
:confused:
 
:barf: Police Chiefs :barf:

As to the battle flag, paintings of the event (obviously there were not photos of the actual fight--film was too slow then), clearly show the battle flag being flown. In earlier battles it may be anachronistic, since the military forces were primarily state-based militias flying a confusing array of flags. But IIRC, by 1864 it would have been in widespread use by the military forces of the CSA. So it should fly.

300px-
 
Cosmoline

Yes, the rectangular flag in the painting would be correct for 1864-65 fighting in Tennessee. Normally, the Battle Flag was the square version flown by the Army of Northern Virginia -- and the Navy Jack was rectangular. However, Confederate forces in Tennessee had adopted a retangular version by then.

I wonder if they oppose the Stars and Bars -- or just the better know battle flag.

200px-Battle_flag_of_the_US_Confederacy.svg.png

Battle Flag used by Army of Northern Virginia


250px-Conf_Navy_Jack_%28light_blue%29.svg.png

Navy Jack (and flag used by Confederates in Tennessee 1864-65)


250px-CSA_FLAG_4.3.1861-21.5.1861.svg.png

Confederate Stars and Bars
 
I'd always thought that re-enactments were one of the best ways to let each generation see a hint of what went on, albeit without the blood and gore. To just see how people had to fight, then, how they lived, what they used.

As others have said, yay for revisionist history. I suppose it will soon be thought that the opposing sides settled it all with a heated argument over afternoon tea in the historic locales. :rolleyes:

What next? Are they going to plaster over the bullet holes still in buildings in Gettysburg, so people don't have to see that anymore?
 
But, but, wasn't it a "civil" war?
Aren't they comemorating an event where folks sat around and discussed the issues in a civil manner?
That's how the slaves got freed and all that other stuff happened isn't it?
They didn't have guns or flags did they?
Oh my!! That is just too awful to think about!!
:barf:



:banghead:
 
Revisionist historians. Pfeh.

My only solace is the hope that some day history will overwrite them.
 
sort of...wait till you see the new politically-correct visitors center being built in Gettysburg...you'll be learning more about the evils of slavery than about the actual battle of Gettysburg...

They better not touch the awesome gun museum they had there! They had some gorgeous officers' presentation pieces, along with the requisite Sharps and rare sniper rifles, all in beautiful shape. Plus all the uniform dioramas, the ones of campsites, cannon loading, all the stuff that mattered.
 
I say that everyone who bothers to go take the flag with them, wear it, wave it, do whatever you want with it.
 
I think re enactors should substitute a giant UN flag for the stars and bars, and point (non-sharp) sticks at each other and go "bang!". Joe
 
i am sure if santa anas army wanted to have a re-enactment,there would be no trouble. time for some enacting.
 
I sent him this email:

Mayor,
If you can't trust Americans who the heck can you trust ?
Let the people reenact history accurately. They put alot of time, money, and effort into it and most likely have insurance through their organization.
Bill Weddle
U.S. Cavalry reenactor
 
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