Rebel flag, guns not wanted at battle event
- Thread starter Desertdog
- Start date
- Status
madmike
Member
Hugh:
I expect there will be LOTS of Confederate flags flying.
The town wusses will be able to shrug shoulders and say they had nothing to do with it.
Remember when most politicians weren't self-serving moral cowards?
No, neither do I.
I expect there will be LOTS of Confederate flags flying.
The town wusses will be able to shrug shoulders and say they had nothing to do with it.
Remember when most politicians weren't self-serving moral cowards?
No, neither do I.
Thefabulousfink
Member
I'm from the North, very against slavery and racism, and I feel that the leaders of the South sould have tried other measures befor spliting from the union....
However, this Mayor makes me want to buy a confederate flag, a [edit]Enfield[/edit Doh!] musket, and drive all the way down their to wave both of them at his little shindig.
Americans on both sides died in that war and it is a disservice to not honor all of them. If the Confederate flag is a devisive symbol, how do you expect to heal our country by hiding it? We have to face our past and come to terms with it if we expect to prevent our mistakes from happening again.
P.S. Eightball, I just saw your sig. We do have some crazy moose up here
However, this Mayor makes me want to buy a confederate flag, a [edit]Enfield[/edit Doh!] musket, and drive all the way down their to wave both of them at his little shindig.
Americans on both sides died in that war and it is a disservice to not honor all of them. If the Confederate flag is a devisive symbol, how do you expect to heal our country by hiding it? We have to face our past and come to terms with it if we expect to prevent our mistakes from happening again.
P.S. Eightball, I just saw your sig. We do have some crazy moose up here
madmike
Member
I may just have to drive down, and pick up a Rebel flag en route.
I've also got a couple of friends of the black persuasion who think it might be fun to bust stereotypes and make the news that way
I've also got a couple of friends of the black persuasion who think it might be fun to bust stereotypes and make the news that way
Thefabulousfink
Member
Armedbear,
I am also Pro-puppies and Apple pie
I am also Pro-puppies and Apple pie
madmike
Member
What kind of sicko wants a puppy and apple pie?
Puppies are GRILLED!
Puppies are GRILLED!
SpiderJohn
Member
Franklin, Tennessee is a rapidly growing "small" town. With a huge influx of folks from moving in all over the country, I suspect the Mayor is trying not to cause a scene. Nissan is bringing a bunch of folks from the PRK into the area, and many are settling there. Saturn did the same thing with folks from MI just a decade ago. It is now unusual to hear a southern accent in Franklin.
I went to High School in Franklin for two years back in the early eighties. Franklin was just begining to grow back then. I recall the very first day of history class. The teacher, I wish I could recall his name, insisted that the war of Northern agression was fought over state rights, and that the boys in butternut were the true patriots. At the time I thought this odd, but as I have studied it on my own, I have come to the conclusion he was correct.
Edited to add: The mascot of the high school is a Rebel, and many a confederate flag would be seen on a friday night at the football games when I was there. I also seem to recall a large confederate flag painted on the center of the basket ball court. I don't know if they still fly the flags on Friday.
I went to High School in Franklin for two years back in the early eighties. Franklin was just begining to grow back then. I recall the very first day of history class. The teacher, I wish I could recall his name, insisted that the war of Northern agression was fought over state rights, and that the boys in butternut were the true patriots. At the time I thought this odd, but as I have studied it on my own, I have come to the conclusion he was correct.
Edited to add: The mascot of the high school is a Rebel, and many a confederate flag would be seen on a friday night at the football games when I was there. I also seem to recall a large confederate flag painted on the center of the basket ball court. I don't know if they still fly the flags on Friday.
johnsonrlp
Member
I'm all for slavery, so long as it's voluntary or as punishment for a crime.
Harve Curry
Member
Saftey inspectors
I find that many firearms saftey exspurts are not familiar with function checking a single action revolver design.
They will put it on 1/2 cock and try and pull the trigger bending or breaking the sear and/or hammer notches.
They will confuse it with a Ruger SA and try and turn the cylinder because the loading gate is open.
They will know the action and still pull the trigger rediculoulsy hard on either the safety or 1/2 cock notches.
Then the same meat handedness will attack the workings of a sidelock long arm.
I find that many firearms saftey exspurts are not familiar with function checking a single action revolver design.
They will put it on 1/2 cock and try and pull the trigger bending or breaking the sear and/or hammer notches.
They will confuse it with a Ruger SA and try and turn the cylinder because the loading gate is open.
They will know the action and still pull the trigger rediculoulsy hard on either the safety or 1/2 cock notches.
Then the same meat handedness will attack the workings of a sidelock long arm.
ought to be tarred and feathered and rode out of town on a rail. No good scalawag coward. His word wouldn't mean jack to me, I'd do it anyway ESPECIALLY since he urged me not to because that flag represents defiance to tyranny and arrogance like his. Furthermore, I'd bring loaded rifles AND I'd bring another flag along side it used by Tennessee cousins in Texas
This is your typical modern "southern" statesman, squeemish and self-serving fence rider.
Real people, black or white, aren't obsessed with this kind of stuff. Real people don't think the way this idiot spineless mayor thinks or the NAACP or Southern Poverty Law Center or the idiots you see screaming on the CNN and Fox news about the flag.
I wear a confederate flag (national 1 2 or 3 or battleflag) on my lapel a lot. NOBODY has ever said "I am offended by that." I always get complements for it. VERY few times has anyone every said anything negative about it. BUT, it wasn't "I am offended by that." it was "aren't you afraid someone ELSE might be offended by that." or "aren't you AFRIAD blacks might be offended by that."
You see. They aren't offended, BUT they are AFRAID someone else MIGHT be. OR they are just self-righteous people who want to make THEMSELVES feel and look good at your and your ancestors expense. That in a nutshell is what political correctness is and what it is for. It is a lie, used to silence people into submission.
+1
Deo Vindice SpiderJohn!
madmike
Member
Regardless of where you place slavery, cotton, industrial growth, development, etc on the map.
The clear fact is that SC started the war. You can debate the politics all over the place. They fired the first shot and bear the blame.
What I want to know is, can we find a cannon to launch the mayor out of as a salute?
The clear fact is that SC started the war. You can debate the politics all over the place. They fired the first shot and bear the blame.
What I want to know is, can we find a cannon to launch the mayor out of as a salute?
So why does SC get the blame? 1) Fort Sumter was built by South Carolina, in South Carolina, for the purpose of defending South Carolina. Why shouldn't they fire on it, it's theirs. 2) The reason they fired on it was because 3 U.S. warships were approaching to reinforce it (sent by Lincoln). 3) it was an episode with 0 casualties. 4) the Fort was surrendered to SC Confederate authorities by the Federal troops with honor played to the Federal troops as the band played Yankee Doodle as they marched out.
Then Lincoln responded by trying to call out 75,000 volunteers to invade the southern states and force them back into the union at gunpoint.
Sounds like the blame belongs with Lincoln to me
+1
madmike
Member
It was FEDERAL property and they were either:
A) a state in rebellion. Shoot at a federal agent and see what it gets you
or
2: a foreign power shooting at US property. We respond badly to that here.
SC spoke of "State's rights" but expected that NY's "State's right" to emancipate arriving slaves was outrageous and an abuse of power.
See, this is why I didn't want to go here. Let's stick to the event NOW, not the one of 140 years ago.
That fact that it's still so debated is a GOOD REASON the Confederate presence is NECESSARY at that event.
A) a state in rebellion. Shoot at a federal agent and see what it gets you
or
2: a foreign power shooting at US property. We respond badly to that here.
SC spoke of "State's rights" but expected that NY's "State's right" to emancipate arriving slaves was outrageous and an abuse of power.
See, this is why I didn't want to go here. Let's stick to the event NOW, not the one of 140 years ago.
That fact that it's still so debated is a GOOD REASON the Confederate presence is NECESSARY at that event.
That was built by the federal government for the purpose of defending South Carolina. Remember, back then anyway, the Federal government was a servant of the states, not a the other way around like it is today. Once South Carolina left the Union there wasn't any need for a Federal fort there. In fact, the Confederacy offered to pay for it. Every other fort throughout the South was peacefully surrendered and payed for. The South even thought Fort Sumter would be too and was lead to believe that in Washington, until Lincoln sent said 3 warships to reinforce it and use to to block SC harbor to collect tariffs and/or use it as a base to invade SC. Lincoln provoked the firing on Fort Sumter.
If say tomorrow Germany decided to expel all U.S. Diplomats from their country peacefully and reclaim all embassies and insist on their evacuation so that they may reclaim them (even generously offering to pay for them). All but one are evacuated peacefully. Then instead of evacuating it we send in more troops reinforce it. They open fire on the U.S. troops and order them all to withdraw peacefully. They do. We are in a pretty bad position if the United States then decides to declare war on Germany, invade it, overthrow it's government and declare "democracy saved."
BUT, I agree with the rest of your point, the fact tha 99% of everyone in here takes more or less a sympathetic view of the Southern position in one way or another and that these are hot topics today does make Confederate postion at Franklin and other arenas in the South important
They believed in states rights, BUT the right of a man to take his slave into another territory WAS agreed upon in the constitution to which states like NY agreed to. The right to extradite fugative slaves was also stated in the Constitution. To not honor that was to not honor the Constitution. That's what the Dred Scott decision was all about. It would be one thing if NY got out of the Union so they could keep slaves out or emancipate slaves arriving, it's another if they stay in the union they agreed to and violated the agreement. The South never suggested invading the North on this point either....in fact, secession by the South removed any Constitutional claims to slaves taken to Northern states (BTW, "free states" wanted to be "free" of the black man, which is also why they wanted the western territories "free." Slavery mean't blacks could be moved into the territory. Even Lincoln stated this early in his political career about the West being "a white man's land." Abolistionist rant about freeing slaves and freeing them once they got north was just rant not reality and it was just a political weapon to use against the South)
Last edited:
madmike
Member
Doug, I'm not going to argue this. It ended 140 years ago. The south lost. Get over it.
The ISSUE here is, that even being the losers, it was one of the few wars where GENERALLY both sides acted honorably, and the South were fighting for their homes, for right or wrong. They are entitled to respect, and in any forum where it is being debated, remembered, celebrated, both sides need to be shown. The North wasn't fighting imaginary playmates with no slaves, and the South wasn't fighting over tiddly winks and chewing gum.
The Confederate flag is historical and appropriate for this event and should be there. And if the band is in uniform, soldiers in uniform with muskets are also appropriate.
The ISSUE here is, that even being the losers, it was one of the few wars where GENERALLY both sides acted honorably, and the South were fighting for their homes, for right or wrong. They are entitled to respect, and in any forum where it is being debated, remembered, celebrated, both sides need to be shown. The North wasn't fighting imaginary playmates with no slaves, and the South wasn't fighting over tiddly winks and chewing gum.
The Confederate flag is historical and appropriate for this event and should be there. And if the band is in uniform, soldiers in uniform with muskets are also appropriate.
Well....you tell the flag screamers that, not me.
really, then why are the yankees/liberals (I don't mean everyone north of mason-dixon) still shooting at us?
They are the ones that keep screaming at us to get rid of our flag/monument/plaque etc. and erase all memory of our culture and heritage. They are the ones that come down here to live, as one other poster has noted about Franklin, Knoxville, Nashville and other Southern cities (I live in Houston and we have the same problem) and then start telling us how backward we are and how we "ought" to do things.The view you express here is what predominated America through most of the 20th century. A lot of good honest people, like you, still hold that postion today. HOWEVER, the fact is that that world does not exist anymore and we should quit acting like it does. Those people who are screaming for the flag to come down and scream "racism" laugh at people like you who express such views. They hate the South and all she represents. In fact, they hate any kind of tradition and that's probably one reason they are so vicious against the South (always been a traditional conservative people.) Those people (yankee/liberals) are the same hippie/socialist/counterculture/pot smoking/radical leftists who emerged from the 1960s. They are both Democrat AND Republican. They are the ones by and large running our media outlets, universities, schools, Federal, State, Local governments and yes even most of our churches. They are not interested in Truth or Honor. They are interested in advancing their own abstract radical ideas.
Yes there were many honorable men who fought for the Union and respected the South during and after the war and likewise earned the respect of Confederates (Joshua Chamberlain for example) and such men would certainly be the first to draw their sword against say Dubya's janitor who took down our Confederate plaque on a Texas Supreme Court building during the 2000 elections or the scoundrels who removed the flag from the SC capitol dome. They would shove you out of the way to shoot the Mayor of Franklin out of a cannon
But, I disagree that both sides generally acted honorably. I'm not here to say that everybody that fought for the South was perfect and pure. I'm not here to say that everybody that fought for the North was bad. But do belive the South had the high road as far as the issues go and the Northern conduct during the war (as far as most high ranking officials go) was pretty horrible. (something men like Robert Gould Shaw and Joshua Chamberlain took serious issue with and protested against). The reason I bring this up is not to get into a flame war with you personally, but because these issues are still with us today if not moreso, hence you could say the War is on again since at least the 1990s if not as far back as the 1960s. Politically, the issues of the war (states rights, taxes, tariffs, unconstitutional wars, centralized government power etc.) are sill with us today, the conduct of the war as expressed by Sherman, Lincoln, Grant and the radical Republicans/Abolitionists are the same goals and aims of these people, that being to eradicate the culture of the South. Granted, it's not with guns (not yet anyway) but it's being done with a lot more subtle and political ways.
These lowlives I speak of are not like you and me, they are not honest people. They don't have any depth. They don't care about why you or I respect the men who fought in 1861. They are self serving, self centered, revolutionary traitors to the America that we respected and have nothing but contempt for the true Republic of our Fathers.
Last edited:
Vitamin G
Member
Some dark, twisted part of me actually would like to see the groups take this to the extreme, and agree to not have the confederate flag, and take it a step farther and agree to have nothing confederate at all...
The result of which could be...
A bunch of union soldiers shooting at, charging, bayonetting some trees.
A bunch of union soldiers sitting around and playing cards.
A bunch of union soldiers with pickett (pun intended) signs, proclaiming the evils of the local government who took away their enemy, end henceforth their "job".
Or just dress the entire confederate forces in something completely period inappropriate, like roman legionaires, cavemen, knights of the round table, or hippies. (My vote is for hippies) and THEN re-enact the battle as it took place.
The result of which could be...
A bunch of union soldiers shooting at, charging, bayonetting some trees.
A bunch of union soldiers sitting around and playing cards.
A bunch of union soldiers with pickett (pun intended) signs, proclaiming the evils of the local government who took away their enemy, end henceforth their "job".
Or just dress the entire confederate forces in something completely period inappropriate, like roman legionaires, cavemen, knights of the round table, or hippies. (My vote is for hippies) and THEN re-enact the battle as it took place.
Derby FALs
Member In Memoriam
MUHAHAHA!
Why would an abolishionist sell inherited slaves and pocket the money?
Kaylee
Member
Kindly take any conversation regarding the causes of The Late Unpleasantness to APS, please.
hugh damright
Member
- Joined
- Nov 3, 2005
- Messages
- 825
It seems to me like it would make more sense for the Mayor to ban yankee flags and blue coats so as not to offend anyone ... I think there is something fundamentally wrong with the Mayor's perspective.
madmike
Member
Why all this emphasis on flags and sides? Can't We All Just Get Along?
Reminds me: end of the month here, we're shooting, drinking (AFTERWARDS!) and watching, ahem, "Training documentaries" on military tactics (James Bond, Snakes on a Plane, MIB...all the things a good gunny is prepared to deal with )
Central Indiana. I guarantee we can all get along...as long as you don't try to stop the shooting, the drinking, the eating of meat and the jeering.
Note that you don't have to PARTICIPATE in all of it. You just have to TOLERATE it.
Reminds me: end of the month here, we're shooting, drinking (AFTERWARDS!) and watching, ahem, "Training documentaries" on military tactics (James Bond, Snakes on a Plane, MIB...all the things a good gunny is prepared to deal with
)Central Indiana. I guarantee we can all get along...as long as you don't try to stop the shooting, the drinking, the eating of meat and the jeering.
Note that you don't have to PARTICIPATE in all of it. You just have to TOLERATE it.
Desertdog
Member
Let's hope they have a new mayor after the election.
- Status
