Reccomend a very accurate handgun

[Godsgunman]

Can't say for sure because I've never shot at that distance nor do I think my eyes are good enough to shoot a handgun that accurately without a bench rest but believe it or not I do believe my Springfield XD 45 and even my Astra 75 could do this in the right hands. At 10 yds both are tack drivers, I can put multiple rounds through the same hole even with cheap ammo. Both are well below your $800 budget.

 

[rpenmanparker]

Just checking back issues of Handgun Magazine. The Sig Sauer 1911 Super Target at $1600 can’t do it, but barely. The Ruger SR1911 Target at $1,000 is worse. Ed Brown has a CCO 9 mm that handily beats the requirement, but it costs $2,700. I think the semi-auto story is pretty clear. Pay up or shut up. Revolvers, they may be different.

 

[rpenmanparker]

Can't say for sure because I've never shot at that distance nor do I think my eyes are good enough to shoot a handgun that accurately without a bench rest but believe it or not I do believe my Springfield XD 45 and even my Astra 75 could do this in the right hands. At 10 yds both are tack drivers, I can put multiple rounds through the same hole even with cheap ammo. Both are well below your $800 budget.

I will say again. There is no “in the right hands”. OP asked for a gun that was mechanically capable, not one he or anyone else could shoot to the desired spec.

 

[rpenmanparker]

Want a break? Here are multiple 1.5" 25yd groups Jeff Quinn from Gunblast shot off his rest with a P220= 3" at 50yd.

And bro, chill.

Chilling is no fun. Where are the groups? I don’t see them.

 

[Tallball]

I'm pretty sure my 7.5" Ruger Super Blackhawk would work. I got it used for $400.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

I have many centerfire handguns that I am sure are mechanically capable of 3-4" groups at 50 yards.

I have a 7" 686 with a 3 MOA Burris Fastfire III. I am sure it is the easiest one I have to shoot good groups at 50 yards with.

 

[ugaarguy]

A used 3rd gen S&W auto from the Performance Center might be worth investigating. I'm not sure of their exact mechanical accuracy, but many had hand fitted 1911 style BBL bushings and they had a great reputation for accuracy.

 

[Godsgunman]

OK rpenmanparker, mechanically speaking I believe my Astra and XD are 'mechanically' capable. Happy?

 

[rpenmanparker]

OK rpenmanparker, mechanically speaking I believe my Astra and XD are 'mechanically' capable. Happy?

Not sure what your point is. Have you tested them? OP wants to know. It’s his money.

Just so you know, I am almost always happy.

 

[straightshooterjake]

For a bit over $2,000 Les Baer will sell you a 1911 which is guaranteed to shoot 3" at 50 yards. This guarantee is important, it means that every gun will meet this standard, and it if doesn't, you can send it back. Note that I am not recommending Les Baer in this case, but they are one of very few manufacturers with a precision guarantee. There is a reason that no less expensive centerfire handguns have a similar guarantee. It is expensive and difficult to deliver this level of accuracy every time.

I have never seen a service pistol under $1,000 that would shoot 3" at 50 yards, but some individual service pistols do shoot very well. However, if you want to buy a pistol for accuracy, you need to be aware of what the factory standard is. The factory standard is really a type of guarantee, since it states what accuracy level will be considered defective and will be "fixed" under warranty. For most service pistols, the factory standard is about 4" at 25 yards, which is 8" at 50 yards. Of course, most of the guns shoot quite a bit better than that, since the factory doesn't want them returned with complaints. But you can't buy any common service pistol and expect that it will shoot much better than that.

You are much more likely to find reasonably priced revolvers that will shoot 3" at 50 yards, but there is still no guarantee. My 6" Smith & Wesson 686 shoots better than 3" at 50 yards when I shoot from a rest, with an optic, and use quality ammo. Unlike centerfire semi-autos, it is pretty common to find revolvers that shoot this well. However, revolvers can still have mechanical issues which affect accuracy.

For a revolver to be extremely accurate, each of the chambers must line up perfectly behind the barrel when the revolver is in lockup. If the chambers are not drilled perfectly straight, or if they are a little off center with the barrel at lockup, then accuracy will be affected. This relationship between the barrel and chambers can be checked with a range rod, and I would typically refer to this measurement as "range." For a revolver to have extreme precision, then range must be perfect. If one chamber is drilled a little off, then there may be one round that spoils each six shot group.

When you really look at how revolvers work, it is a bit surprising that they work as well as they do, but they actually do work very well. I am not at all surprised when a S&W revolver shoots 3" at 50 yards, but it is still not guaranteed.

If you want a revolver, that is guaranteed to have the cylinder to barrel alignment nearly perfect, then you need to look at something like a Freedom Arms, and you are back to a price range over $2K. Freedom Arms uses different manufacturing techniques than anyone else to assure precision alignment, and their methods would not be possible in a mass produced product at a lower price point.

 

[reddog81]

What straightshooterjake said...

I'm guessing your going to have a lot better luck going with a revolver in that price range vs a semi auto but it's still no guarantee.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

Chilling is no fun. Where are the groups? I don’t see them.

http://www.gunblast.com/SIG-P220.htm
Sorry, the link didn't copy......fixed it.

 

[rpenmanparker]

Good information about factory practices. Thanks straightshooterjake.

 

[WVsig]

Im looking for a handgun that is mechanically capable of 3-4" groups at 50 yards.

1911 is an obvious choice but what else is this capable ?

I've heard the cz75 isnt on par with a tight 1911.

226? 686? Blackhawk?

I am open to 9mm, 44, 45, or 357.

ETA: budget of $800

The real deal killer here is the $800 budget. I would say that a CZ 75B which can be had for $469 + $30 shipping + Transfer fees would be a good place to start. Then either send it to CGW or buy the parts yourself and install their Pro Package and 10X bushing. If you install it yourself you will be under $800. If they install it for you then you will be about $100 over your budget. If you are up to the task that gun should be able to shoot 3-4" groups at 50.

https://cajungunworks.com/product/75110-pro-package-for-75-series-manual-safety/

https://cajungunworks.com/product/barrel-bushing-sp-01-10x/

 

[Slamfire]

For a bit over $2,000 Les Baer will sell you a 1911 which is guaranteed to shoot 3" at 50 yards. This guarantee is important, it means that every gun will meet this standard, and it if doesn't, you can send it back. Note that I am not recommending Les Baer in this case, but they are one of very few manufacturers with a precision guarantee. There is a reason that no less expensive centerfire handguns have a similar guarantee. It is expensive and difficult to deliver this level of accuracy every time.

This Les Baer Wadcutter will hold close to two inches, even though I can't:



I am certain this custom built M1911 would meet your criteria, but the guy who built it, was using it.



Having competed in Bullseye Pistol for a couple of years now, I am going to say that expectations of shooting three to four inch groups, offhand, at 50 yards with a handgun, are extremely optimistic. In Bullseye shooting, that is with one hand, I have seen a number of 99's, more 98's, at 50 yards. The ten ring is four inches at 50 yards. It is rare that someone places 10 shots within four inches at 50 yards, but mind you, these guys are shooting offhand, with one hand.My goal was to keep all shots on the repair center, something I have done with a 22 lr. I would have to check to see if I have kept them all in the black, with a 22 LR. I most certainly have not met either of these with a 45 ACP. Maybe I will get there.



I am certain with a rest, groups will be tighter, but it still seems to me, that a four inch group at 50 yards with a handgun will be very hard to do on any consistent basis.

To shoot on the Bullseye Pistol range at CMP Talladega, all you have to do is qualify. Qualification consists of shooting ten shots, at 25 yards, or 50 yards, at a paper target, that has the same approximate dimensions of the center of this electronic target. That is, the part inside the white plastic frame.







If you keep all ten shots within two feet by two feet (paper target size) at 25 yards, then you can shoot at the 25 yard electronic targets. If you can keep all ten shots on the same 24" square paper target at 50 yards, CMP will let you shoot your handgun at 50 yards. When I qualified, out to 50 yards, in front of the firing line was a huge pile of 380 brass. Seems a large group out of Atlanta came out, and not one qualified at 25 yards, and they had to go shoot at the plinking range. In fact, I noticed, that the Rangemaster at the Bullseye range got to know me by name. It turns out, to date, the number of people who have qualified at this range, is around 50 shooters. There are a lot more people who think they can shoot three or four inch groups at 50 yards, than can actually place their shots, within three to four inches at 50 yards. You see, expensive equipment will not compensate for a lack of shooting skills.

By the way, CMP will toss your butt off the range if you hit that plastic frame more than two times, in a practice session. These are after all, $15,000 targets.

 

[WVsig]

This Les Baer Wadcutter will hold close to two inches, even though I can't:

View attachment 791298

I am certain this custom built M1911 would meet your criteria, but the guy who built it, was using it.

View attachment 791299

Having competed in Bullseye Pistol for a couple of years now, I am going to say that expectations of shooting three to four inch groups, offhand, at 50 yards with a handgun, are extremely optimistic. In Bullseye shooting, that is with one hand, I have seen a number of 99's, more 98's, at 50 yards. The ten ring is four inches at 50 yards. It is rare that someone places 10 shots within four inches at 50 yards, but mind you, these guys are shooting offhand, with one hand.My goal was to keep all shots on the repair center, something I have done with a 22 lr. I would have to check to see if I have kept them all in the black, with a 22 LR. I most certainly have not met either of these with a 45 ACP. Maybe I will get there.

View attachment 791300

I am certain with a rest, groups will be tighter, but it still seems to me, that a four inch group at 50 yards with a handgun will be very hard to do on any consistent basis.

To shoot on the Bullseye Pistol range at CMP Talladega, all you have to do is qualify. Qualification consists of shooting ten shots, at 25 yards, or 50 yards, at a paper target, that has the same approximate dimensions of the center of this electronic target. That is, the part inside the white plastic frame.

View attachment 791301

View attachment 791302

View attachment 791303

If you keep all ten shots within two feet by two feet (paper target size) at 25 yards, then you can shoot at the 25 yard electronic targets. If you can keep all ten shots on the same 24" square paper target at 50 yards, CMP will let you shoot your handgun at 50 yards. When I qualified, out to 50 yards, in front of the firing line was a huge pile of 380 brass. Seems a large group out of Atlanta came out, and not one qualified at 25 yards, and they had to go shoot at the plinking range. In fact, I noticed, that the Rangemaster at the Bullseye range got to know me by name. It turns out, to date, the number of people who have qualified at this range, is around 50 shooters. There are a lot more people who think they can shoot three or four inch groups at 50 yards, than can actually place their shots, within three to four inches at 50 yards. You see, expensive equipment will not compensate for a lack of shooting skills.

By the way, CMP will toss your butt off the range if you hit that plastic frame more than two times, in a practice session. These are after all, $15,000 targets.

I did not see anywhere in the OP where he said that the 3-4" groups were to be shot off hand. I read the OP asking what service pistol was capable of "mechanical accuracy" of 3-4"s at 50 yards. To me that means shooting out of a rest or in your hands from a rested position.

 

[rpenmanparker]

http://www.gunblast.com/SIG-P220.htm
Sorry, the link didn't copy......fixed it.

Wow, that’s really goood information. I wonder if the magazine review authors use Ramsom rests or just a sandbag. No way to compare results among guns if the methodology is different. Also no way to understand what is really the basic mechanical capability of each gun.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

Wow, that’s really goood information. I wonder if the magazine review authors use Ramsom rests or just a sandbag. No way to compare results among guns if the methodology is different. Also no way to understand what is really the basic mechanical capability of each gun.

http://www.gunblast.com/CZ-75.htm

Here's Jeff's test of the CZ75b with similar methodology. With some loads, it was mechanically capable of 1.25" 25yd groups, but group size was much more variable and ammo dependent than with the P220.

 

[rpenmanparker]

http://www.gunblast.com/CZ-75.htm

Here's Jeff's test of the CZ75b with similar methodology. With some loads, it was mechanically capable of 1.25" 25yd groups, but group size was much more variable and ammo dependent than with the P220.

Impressive compared to what you read in magazine gun reviews. As I suggested above, it makes me wonder whether those are especially fine guns or the methodology is the difference. IOW are the reviewers disadvantaging the guns they test by hand holding them off a sandbag rather than using the Ransom rest? The review is not always explicit.

The review data should be the most basic. After all I don’t want to know how good a shot the reviewer is. I want to know how capable the gun is.

 

[someguy2800]

You can’t trust anything you read in a magazine. They don’t teach marksmanship in writers school, and it’s not in their financial interest to publish negative results.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

Impressive compared to what you read in magazine gun reviews. As I suggested above, it makes me wonder whether those are especially fine guns or the methodology is the difference. IOW are the reviewers disadvantaging the guns they test by hand holding them off a sandbag rather than using the Ransom rest? The review is not always explicit.

The review data should be the most basic. After all I don’t want to know how good a shot the reviewer is. I want to know how capable the gun is.

A lot of times with new guns they review them before the Ransom inserts are available......or they just don't want to spend money on them, lol.

 

[Jim Watson]

I think the factory targets with European guns like Sig and HK are shot off a forearm rest by a good shot on company staff. It would be prohibitively time consuming to clamp every gun in a machine rest. Probably why my P210 test target has a flyer outside the proverbial 50mm at 50m group.

 

[rpenmanparker]

I think the factory targets with European guns like Sig and HK are shot off a forearm rest by a good shot on company staff. It would be prohibitively time consuming to clamp every gun in a machine rest. Probably why my P210 test target has a flyer outside the proverbial 50mm at 50m group.

Prolly.

 

[Mike J]

I don't shoot my handguns at 50 yards. I do on occasion shoot them at 25 yards though. From what I have seen at 25 yards I would say my old Dan Wesson model 15-2 is capable of it. Sadly Dan Wesson Revolvers aren't made anymore though I think CZ did a limited run a year or so ago.

 

[WVsig]

A lot of times with new guns they review them before the Ransom inserts are available......or they just don't want to spend money on them, lol.

Also it is my understanding that Ramsom rests do not play well with the flex of polymer pistols.