Red dots on handguns
- Thread starter UncleEd
- Start date
JR24
Member
Carry and bedside guns
DustyGmt
Member
I have been telling myself they are wholly unnecessary for my purposes and I just need to spend money on ammo instead, but at the same time if I was offered the opportunity to shoot a pistol with a RDS I would seriously consider not trying it, for fear that I would like it and the experience would leave me with the impression that all my other handguns were "less than".......After a young man let me use his I went from none to four and working on number five. For old people there great, as usual Your Mileage May Very.
But for a Carbine, like an AR, I couldn't imagine a HD gun without an RDS. A handgun is a slightly different ballgame though.... suffice to say, I'm really interested in handgun RDS but am not looking to go shopping for a G19 MOS, Triji RMR and new holster just yet. I fear trying a handgun with a dot sight is going to cost me somewhere between $1K-$1.3K
DustyGmt
Member
Yeah this ^^^
43 years old, finally bought an RMR. Hated it. Just sat in my safe. fast forward a year to lasik and the Primary Arms Holosun with ACSS Vulcan, I now have 10(ish?) Pistol with optics.
My RMR has been put on my Sig XTEN for outdoor/hunting. But the features on the Holosuns make them a winner.
The main thing is initially using the big circle in the ACSS Vulcan to get used to your presentation. I no longer "hunt" for the dot (chevron). A few reps of presentations on bad guys on the TV and I no longer need the circle.
Due to this my presentation and time to first shot has improved with both optics and irons.
My RMR has been put on my Sig XTEN for outdoor/hunting. But the features on the Holosuns make them a winner.
The main thing is initially using the big circle in the ACSS Vulcan to get used to your presentation. I no longer "hunt" for the dot (chevron). A few reps of presentations on bad guys on the TV and I no longer need the circle.
Due to this my presentation and time to first shot has improved with both optics and irons.
C-grunt
Member
Red dots on handguns originated in competition, that is true. But it's been used in combat for a couple decades now. If you are asking if they have shown to be effective in gunfighting, then you are far behind the times. CAG (Delta) started really messing around with red dots on handguns back in the 90s. The SF unit on my FOB in 2005 had some handguns with red dots. Big Army and the rest of the conventional forces are now transitioning to dots on the M17/M18. On the LE side it has become very prevalent over the last 10 years. Go on YouTube and watch body cam footage and you'll see a bunch of them.
At close ranges the dot can be slower. But at close ranges you also can use the window as a big peep sight. I can make consistent good A/C zone hits out to 15 yards using this technique. Past 10 yards the red dot is noticeably faster and more accurate. The difference gets more noticeable as the distance grows. Tracking moving targets is also much easier.
One of the biggest advantages of the red dot on the handgun is better situational awareness. A few weeks back I responded to an armed robbery at a local store. Guy robbed it with a handgun in his jacket pocket. I ended up finding the guy in a nearby business complex and confronted him. He was initially pretty non compliant. I was able to keep both eyes open, have complete view of him and his movements, while still having a good sight picture on his chest. This lasted about 30 seconds before my backup arrived and the suspect decided a parking lot shootout was a bad idea and gave up.
Red dots on rifles were an idea that was tried off and on since the 70s. Technology caught up in the 90s and they took over. Now the benefits of red dots (I use this term to describe all of the electronic optics) on a rifle are common knowledge. The technology took a bit longer to be able to be easily used on a handgun. But now that we are here, everyone is starting to see the same benefits that they saw with rifles. They are still improving the optics and a standard mounting footprint hopefully happens.
At close ranges the dot can be slower. But at close ranges you also can use the window as a big peep sight. I can make consistent good A/C zone hits out to 15 yards using this technique. Past 10 yards the red dot is noticeably faster and more accurate. The difference gets more noticeable as the distance grows. Tracking moving targets is also much easier.
One of the biggest advantages of the red dot on the handgun is better situational awareness. A few weeks back I responded to an armed robbery at a local store. Guy robbed it with a handgun in his jacket pocket. I ended up finding the guy in a nearby business complex and confronted him. He was initially pretty non compliant. I was able to keep both eyes open, have complete view of him and his movements, while still having a good sight picture on his chest. This lasted about 30 seconds before my backup arrived and the suspect decided a parking lot shootout was a bad idea and gave up.
Red dots on rifles were an idea that was tried off and on since the 70s. Technology caught up in the 90s and they took over. Now the benefits of red dots (I use this term to describe all of the electronic optics) on a rifle are common knowledge. The technology took a bit longer to be able to be easily used on a handgun. But now that we are here, everyone is starting to see the same benefits that they saw with rifles. They are still improving the optics and a standard mounting footprint hopefully happens.
Riomouse911
Member
I never used a RDS equipped handgun on duty, even though I hung up my Glock 34 for a 43X MOS for the last 3+ years of my career as a neutered, office-bound administrator. I just never had the opportunity to go through handgun RDS transition training.
The biggest request I got over the past 3+ years I was in charge of training was for red dot transition school. Our older guys really were seeing the benefits of RDS on patrol rifles, and were hearing great things about the handgun RDS from the training staff. The younger guys all seem to be hip to the latest and greatest, so they, too wanted to transition to dots. (And $2,500 Staccato 2011’s… good luck getting the office to pay for those!) I must add that no one ever wanted lasers, even though I did write the policy to allow them.
Prior to retiring last month, I had two guys go through RDS instructor school and they were completing a curriculum to submit to POST for approval of a plainclothes RDS transition course. Hopefully it happens, as the demand is there and the training wasn’t cheap. (It should go through if someone in admin picks up the torch to drive it home.)
Other than the dot sights I have on rifles, I have two other RDS-milled handguns. Both are Glocks, a 17 and a 19, yet both are also sans a red dot sight.
Now the only handgun I own with an actual dot sight installed is one of my two 5.5” uppers for the Ruger Mk IV .22. ( Man it is nice taking 15 seconds to swap these out!)
I will say that for me the RDS is a bit funky to get used to, as I feel like I am pointing the gun downwards a bit when I am actually pointing straight. In close when I point shoot, I do not think I would be faster with a dot. In fact on a “draw-shoot” out to 7, maybe 10 yards or so, I would be slower trying to find the dot as I have trained for decades in this stuff. (I am not even using sights until I am out a ways.) But for shooting 15 yards and out, or for slow, deliberate fire; the dot is easier to shoot well with by far.
I will say don’t knock it until you’ve tried it. They take some getting used to but the red dot sights really do work well.
Stay safe.
The biggest request I got over the past 3+ years I was in charge of training was for red dot transition school. Our older guys really were seeing the benefits of RDS on patrol rifles, and were hearing great things about the handgun RDS from the training staff. The younger guys all seem to be hip to the latest and greatest, so they, too wanted to transition to dots. (And $2,500 Staccato 2011’s… good luck getting the office to pay for those!) I must add that no one ever wanted lasers, even though I did write the policy to allow them.
Prior to retiring last month, I had two guys go through RDS instructor school and they were completing a curriculum to submit to POST for approval of a plainclothes RDS transition course. Hopefully it happens, as the demand is there and the training wasn’t cheap. (It should go through if someone in admin picks up the torch to drive it home.)
Other than the dot sights I have on rifles, I have two other RDS-milled handguns. Both are Glocks, a 17 and a 19, yet both are also sans a red dot sight.
Now the only handgun I own with an actual dot sight installed is one of my two 5.5” uppers for the Ruger Mk IV .22. ( Man it is nice taking 15 seconds to swap these out!)
I will say that for me the RDS is a bit funky to get used to, as I feel like I am pointing the gun downwards a bit when I am actually pointing straight. In close when I point shoot, I do not think I would be faster with a dot. In fact on a “draw-shoot” out to 7, maybe 10 yards or so, I would be slower trying to find the dot as I have trained for decades in this stuff. (I am not even using sights until I am out a ways.) But for shooting 15 yards and out, or for slow, deliberate fire; the dot is easier to shoot well with by far.
I will say don’t knock it until you’ve tried it. They take some getting used to but the red dot sights really do work well.
Stay safe.
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