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brownie0486
Member
qwert65,
Understood, in the state of NJ I'd never open my door to a stranger for that very reason. It could escalate to something I'd have to pay for in the end.
You are right, the light on might have brought him to that house.
Brownie
Understood, in the state of NJ I'd never open my door to a stranger for that very reason. It could escalate to something I'd have to pay for in the end.
You are right, the light on might have brought him to that house.
Brownie
Next time, I vote for not opening the door at all. Offer, through the closed door, to call the police for them if they need assistance.
I am not in favor of racking the gun unless they are already in your house and you are about to shoot them.
I am not in favor of racking the gun unless they are already in your house and you are about to shoot them.
doc540
Member
With that profile and at that time of the morning I would've called the cops first and told them I thought I saw him hide a gun.
No open door, no interviewing process, no risk
I would have let the professionals work all that out among themselves.
No open door, no interviewing process, no risk
I would have let the professionals work all that out among themselves.
rainbowbob
Member
qwert:
Each case IS different. The problem is - you have no way of knowing which "case" the person on your front porch is.
Google "sociopath". Those monsters walk amongst us - that is not paranoia - that's a fact. Sociopaths rely on the "normal" person's sense of fair play, civility, politeness, and desire to be helpful. They can instinctively sense if you are that kind of person and will use it against you. For the criminal sociopath - your decency confers a powerful tactical advantage to them.
I'm not suggesting that we simply abandon our fellow man and hide in our homes. I am suggesting we think carefully about how, and when, and whether or not to offer help.
Letting a stranger in your door might be "polite" - but it may put you and your family at grave risk. You can usually find a way to help if you choose to - without taking unnecessary risks.
mpmarty
Member
Sorry
I'm not polite. I'm not socially acceptable. Come to my door at night and you will be hit in the eyes with 90 lumens and have my XD45 aimed at your nose while I ask you what the hell you think you're doing on my property.
Wife will be armed with her compact witness 45 and my dogs will be quietly prowling with their hair standing on end between their shoulders.
Nobody surprises us by knocking on our door, we have alarms all along the half mile of driveway from the highway to our home that report intrusions and identify which point of the driveway has been violated.
At the quarter mile mark from the highway is a fifty foot wide swath of blackberries over ten feet high that chokes all traffic to the driveway.
I'm not polite. I'm not socially acceptable. Come to my door at night and you will be hit in the eyes with 90 lumens and have my XD45 aimed at your nose while I ask you what the hell you think you're doing on my property.
Wife will be armed with her compact witness 45 and my dogs will be quietly prowling with their hair standing on end between their shoulders.
Nobody surprises us by knocking on our door, we have alarms all along the half mile of driveway from the highway to our home that report intrusions and identify which point of the driveway has been violated.
At the quarter mile mark from the highway is a fifty foot wide swath of blackberries over ten feet high that chokes all traffic to the driveway.
rainbowbob
Member
You probably don't get a lot of people asking if you've read "Watchtower" But how do you get in and out through those blackberries?
rainbowbob, I've gotten my butt kicked often enough to know how fast an attack can go down. I will retract from my first post the paranoid comment perhaps I have worded my thoughts poorly. I did say in a later post that each encounter is different.
The sad fact is we can truly trust very few people in this world. The good news is 98% are decent people and of the 2% of scumbags only about half of them are violent sociopaths.
My point(hopefully better worded) is that I think far too many are worried about strangers when sadly we are in more danger from the people we know.
Further once we accept this and the fact that the first time someone commits a crime it is usually against one we know. How many of us would let a neighbor in if they knocked on our door in the middle of the night? I try to treat most people decently until they piss me off. If I let my neighbor in at night I would expect him/her to stay in the hall while I phone/get help unless invited to sit down, just as I would a stranger. I would be armed both times and I would ask pointed questions both times if the answer is not satisfactory I'll go from there.
In summary, I belive you can be perfectly polite and be prepared to kill someone if neccessary. I will admit that each indivual scenario is different and that a little paranioa never hurt anyone. Further, I grew up a little rougher than most and probably have a better understanding of peoples body language/motions that can indicate violence. I realize not all have this skill. I further realize that I've always had a large dog watching my back, which a lot of people don't have.
The sad fact is we can truly trust very few people in this world. The good news is 98% are decent people and of the 2% of scumbags only about half of them are violent sociopaths.
My point(hopefully better worded) is that I think far too many are worried about strangers when sadly we are in more danger from the people we know.
Further once we accept this and the fact that the first time someone commits a crime it is usually against one we know. How many of us would let a neighbor in if they knocked on our door in the middle of the night? I try to treat most people decently until they piss me off. If I let my neighbor in at night I would expect him/her to stay in the hall while I phone/get help unless invited to sit down, just as I would a stranger. I would be armed both times and I would ask pointed questions both times if the answer is not satisfactory I'll go from there.
In summary, I belive you can be perfectly polite and be prepared to kill someone if neccessary. I will admit that each indivual scenario is different and that a little paranioa never hurt anyone. Further, I grew up a little rougher than most and probably have a better understanding of peoples body language/motions that can indicate violence. I realize not all have this skill. I further realize that I've always had a large dog watching my back, which a lot of people don't have.
Mt Shooter
Member
Each case is different and I will go out of my way to help someone out. But, I usually know what is going on, I see the little ol lady slip on the ice. I see the person having a heart attack, I preform CPR until help can take over. If someone comes to my house late at night and wants to use my phone, I don't know who you are and I don't see the need for your being there I have a problem with that. He may have been Innocent and saw the TV flickering through the curtains and thought someone was up. Or saw someone was up, late at night Ill just pull this knife out and see what I can get. Maybe he just found out he brought a knife to a gun fight. Ill never know, but all I can say is one must be on their guard at all times and judge the situation and hopefully make the right guess.
gtmerkley
member
I can see where your coming from.
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TallPine
Member
I know it is a rural vs city thing, but I carry a sidearm all the time on my own property.
When somebody unexpected shows up, I sometimes (always at night) go out the "back door" and come around the corner with a rifle in my hands. The heck with what people think - and it has never yet been a situation for either party to call the sheriff about.
In daylight, I make a judgement call based on general appearances. Usually it is someone we already know (like the mail lady bringing a package too big for the box). Sometimes it is somebody asking directions, or a couple times actually broke down and needing to use a phone. It really is all about "red flags" or lack thereof - you just have to make your best decision and go with it.
I'm not going to refuse to help people but I am going to be cautious. One time we were out working in the yard and this suspicious pickup pulls in. I was shirtless and my sidearm was plainly visible. Turns out the guy was a logger headed home and he spotted smoke up around the corner from our house.
When somebody unexpected shows up, I sometimes (always at night) go out the "back door" and come around the corner with a rifle in my hands. The heck with what people think - and it has never yet been a situation for either party to call the sheriff about.
In daylight, I make a judgement call based on general appearances. Usually it is someone we already know (like the mail lady bringing a package too big for the box). Sometimes it is somebody asking directions, or a couple times actually broke down and needing to use a phone. It really is all about "red flags" or lack thereof - you just have to make your best decision and go with it.
I'm not going to refuse to help people but I am going to be cautious. One time we were out working in the yard and this suspicious pickup pulls in. I was shirtless and my sidearm was plainly visible. Turns out the guy was a logger headed home and he spotted smoke up around the corner from our house.
just for perspective
I wonder what the incidence is of innocent stranded motorists going to some random house to ask for help, and getting jumped by the hoodlums that live inside?
I mean, if you're in a state that allows ccw and you have a permit, and you're stranded and your cell phone isn't working, you are probably going to walk up to the nearest house, and you are probably going to be carrying just in case.
I wonder what the incidence is of innocent stranded motorists going to some random house to ask for help, and getting jumped by the hoodlums that live inside?
I mean, if you're in a state that allows ccw and you have a permit, and you're stranded and your cell phone isn't working, you are probably going to walk up to the nearest house, and you are probably going to be carrying just in case.
bdickens
Member
Surely, you're not suggesting that there is a possibility that someone coming to your door asking for help has innocent motives and really does need help?
RioShooter
Member
During the last 40 years of driving, I've had 4 breakdowns where I sought assistance at a residence. Each time I was invited in, and I called for a tow.
All four instances occurred in the '70's. It's too bad we have to be afraid to help our fellow man today.
BTW, each time a woman alone in the house helped me.
All four instances occurred in the '70's. It's too bad we have to be afraid to help our fellow man today.
BTW, each time a woman alone in the house helped me.
TallPine
Member
We don't have to be afraid, but we need to be cautious.
Several years ago a clean cut young man wearing a cowboy hat walked up on our deck about dusk. I answered the door with my hand on the grip of my sidearm.
Turns out he was the HS age son of the local game warden who had slid his pickup off of the icy road. I offered to go pull it out for him but it was damaged and not drivable. He waited in our warm house until someone could come get him.
In this case, my flag went from yellow to green.
Blackbeard
Member
I greet all unexpected late-night callers with a shout from my 2nd story window. That way I can determine if I think they're legit without exposing myself to a door-kick bum rush.
+1 on sociopaths...
I deal with them in my work regularly and their coldness to other human beings is why I got my CHL. I've heard stories about unspeakable cruelty, and they just shrug their shoulders afterward and say I have no remorse for anything I do. Beware their superficial charm, as they usually can get along pretty well with people until you get into certain areas. The guy who seems harmless can be your worst nightmare if he wants something from you or your family...
gp911
I deal with them in my work regularly and their coldness to other human beings is why I got my CHL. I've heard stories about unspeakable cruelty, and they just shrug their shoulders afterward and say I have no remorse for anything I do. Beware their superficial charm, as they usually can get along pretty well with people until you get into certain areas. The guy who seems harmless can be your worst nightmare if he wants something from you or your family...
gp911
Everyone has a cell phone nowadays. I see the "I need to use your phone" as more ruse than reality as opposed to even a few years ago.
I would have looked through the peephole and told him I was sorry but that, "we don't open the door for strangers at night" or something like that. If he kept it up, "Please leave."
My wife doesn't go to the door if I am not here.
I would have looked through the peephole and told him I was sorry but that, "we don't open the door for strangers at night" or something like that. If he kept it up, "Please leave."
My wife doesn't go to the door if I am not here.
packnrat
Member
if ANYBODY knocks on my door it can only mean trouble. as i live over one mile up a dirt rd...at the end of it., and behind a locked gate, wire fence, etc.
not quite ten foil hat...just people around here have fences around there property.
if somebody needed help the fire dept is better and on a paved rd,
it can be tough walking a unlit rough rocky dirt rd in the dark.
.
not quite ten foil hat...just people around here have fences around there property.
if somebody needed help the fire dept is better and on a paved rd,
it can be tough walking a unlit rough rocky dirt rd in the dark.
.
hso said:
I have one of those latches on my front door (we put it there to keep the little ones from being able to let themselves out!). I'd recommend a simple addition to make it more effective - a rubber door stop. Just position the stop right where the door rests when you open it on the latch. If someone tries to rush the door, that little stopper (particularly on a wooden floor like we have) will stop it cold. It's a nice piece of added security for $0.97 from Walmart!
As a surprisingly small number of members have said, I too struggle with the balance between security and being a good Samaritan. Our house is one of the only ones on the block with lights on at night, so we'd probably be a natural destination for anyone legitimately looking for help. I think I would be inclined to do the same thing as Mt Shooter -- except I would have had my gun with me the first time. We have kids in the house, so we can't leave them laying around, but I have a Ruger P93 in a quick-access lock box in a closet on the ground floor. In 10 seconds, I can have it in my hand, round chambered, and ready to go.
Posts like this always make me reconsider the options and my plan...
Jim
I don't agree with racking your slide to show an unseen person that you are armed. The sound of racking your weapon could be the last sound you hear before the BG shoots you through the door. Besides, your HD weapon should be armed and ready to fire with, at most, a safety between you and "bang". Demonstrating that you are armed marks your home for a break-in later and could put you or your family at risk. Or some wacked-out-on-drugs BGs might even use the threat as a reason to escalate the situation. Only show a BG your gun by the light of the muzzle flash.
I am glad I read this thread, though. It may help prepare me with the "I'm calling the police to help you now. Where's your car so I can send them to you?" response.
Dale
I am glad I read this thread, though. It may help prepare me with the "I'm calling the police to help you now. Where's your car so I can send them to you?" response.
Dale
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Cosmoline
Member
You opened the door, unarmed, and stuck your single most vital part where he could get a good bead on it. There's no safe way to do that, so don't do it. Having a firearm behind your back is fine, but may not help if he's fast enough and knocks the door down on top of you--or just shoots through it.
If a stranger who looks out of place is knocking, ignore him. Keep a firearm ready. If he's peaceable he will leave. If he's coming to do harm he may try to come through the door, in which case you want to be down the hall with a rifle pointed at him, NOT standing with your head cocked around the door.
I'm not sure I understand why people would open the door and presumptively jam a loaded gun in the face of the stranger. THAT could get you into trouble. JUST DO NOT ANSWER THE DOOR FOR STRANGERS. Don't get in a @#$@ conversation with them, don't engage them, don't threaten them with a gun, don't call the police. Just ignore them and be ready if they try to break in. Say nothing. You are under no obligation to answer your door to odd strangers.
If a stranger who looks out of place is knocking, ignore him. Keep a firearm ready. If he's peaceable he will leave. If he's coming to do harm he may try to come through the door, in which case you want to be down the hall with a rifle pointed at him, NOT standing with your head cocked around the door.
I'm not sure I understand why people would open the door and presumptively jam a loaded gun in the face of the stranger. THAT could get you into trouble. JUST DO NOT ANSWER THE DOOR FOR STRANGERS. Don't get in a @#$@ conversation with them, don't engage them, don't threaten them with a gun, don't call the police. Just ignore them and be ready if they try to break in. Say nothing. You are under no obligation to answer your door to odd strangers.
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