Creep on the Porch

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I spent last night at her place. She is legal, but doesn't like the authorities, and is hoping that the problem just goes away. I will install some exterior lights tonight.

I showed up with a baseball bat because this is California. If I walk arround a condo complex with a loaded 12 guage, I will be the criminal.

I have taken her to the range several times, but she is kind of jumpy, and she doesn't trust herself with a firearm. Personally, I don't trust her with a gun right now either. She may have an accidental discharge.

I understand the advice not to be overly involved, but I cannot just do nothing. Tonight, we will have a serious talk. I have gotten some litterature about this, and a couple of police forms, so I intend for her to register a complaint.

This guy is real. I saw him once, and I heard one of his messages. I also saw his latest email. It did not threaten violence directly, but the tone was extremely negative. The subject line was "Advice: Pick Up Your Phone!" It is not a threat, but the tone is hostile, and the message was nutty.
Mauserguy
 
As someone already said, I hate reading posts like this. So I read the first page only. So my advice may be a repeat of what has already been said. First, she is lucky to have you as a friend. She/you need to get the police involved. He was not dropping by for tea when he tried to open the door. Get a camera,there are some that look like a flood light. This guy will probably continue to escalate until he is confronted by the police. So the restraining order is a good start. Pics of him after the order is granted may get his ascot locked up. Hopefully you can get her shooting. Some seem unwilling to protect themselves, it makes it difficult to help them. The NRA has that "Refuse To Be A Victim" class, you might try that. Good luck.
 
Mauser,

She definatly needs to go on the offensive. He is going to keep coming, and getting bolder until either a.) He is arrested, b.) He rapes or kills her, or c.) she kills him.

Those are the 3 real choices. She needs to decide which option(s) are acceptable to her.

One other thing, document everything, save every message, every e-mail. And when this is resolved, maybe before (might be a bad idea before), contact the University where he teaches martial arts, and tell them they are employing a stalker. And contact the local news stations, and get them on his case.

I say to do this after things are more secure, or resolved, because if she does this before there is some resolution, he might retaliate against her.

But it is important to let the university know, since there may be a problem with him doing this to students (is that how she met him?!?). They need to know, and they will need to see evidence.

I.G.B.
 
He is going to keep coming, and getting bolder until either a.) He is arrested, b.) He rapes or kills her, or c.) she kills him.
Click to expand...

Problem is, all to often "civilized" people assume there is an option d.) he gets bored or distracted by something else or takes the hint and goes away.

One cannot assume that someone that is acting squirrelly will all the sudden snap out of it and start acting normal.
 
Denko:
She/you need to get the police involved. He was not dropping by for tea when he tried to open the door. Get a camera,there are some that look like a flood light.
Click to expand...

On those first two counts, I've been thinking the same thing. On the part about the camera that looks like a flood light I have a thought or two.

1- I don't know if the stalker in question would think of it, but my thought is if a light is high enough he can't unscrew it, he could still bust it with a wristrocket and be pretty quiet.

2- If he busts your lights like that and one of them was your camera... How tough are those cameras?
 
She met him in a local hiking club, loosely affiliated with the Sierra Club. I went with her on a couple of their hikes, and I knew that something was wrong with those people. They all acted and spoke like hedonists. The girls would talk about jumping from tent to tent, and the guys would say really vile things. After a couple of months of hanging out with these people, she got offended and moved on.

I encouraged her to do more with her church, and make friends at church. Unfortunately, she had already gained herself this guy. Also, you are right about letting the University know about this. Unfortunately, it has to be documented first, and she hasn't wanted to go that far yet. You can't just slander somebody. Well, we'll talk about this tonight after her bible study.
Mauserguy
 
Quote by bcochran: "Every one speaks about going to the police. The police don't file for injunctions. There is no crime committed. It is a civil matter in most jurisdictions,"

Response by MikeIsaj:

"Last I checked even California has laws against stalking, prowling and trespassing."


What I think the original comment intended to say is that without a court order there will be no restraining order.

That is true...to a point... but a restraining order can be the result of a criminal complaint acted upon by the police department.

Like MikeIsaj said stalking is taken as a serious crime in all of the states I am aware of.

Certainly California is also one..if not, for me it'd be one more reason added to the great number of reasons to move from there.
 
the rather grim thing is that if she doesn't talk to *somebody* in authority and start creating a paper trail before something happens, this thread could prove to be part of what little evidence there is.

one of the very frustrating things about situations like this is watching someone fail to help themself. it's no different than watching an addict slowly kill himself, or (in its own way) a shy friend fail to ask a girl out.

difference is, this woman needs to get her head screwed on straight before the other guy unscrews it manually.
 
About 2 hours ago I learned that my wife's sister's husband's sister has been murdered by a stalker.
Relatives are flying to Paris right now to identify the body.

Quit quivering about the creep on the porch.
Do what needs to be done.
 
ctdonath, I don't personally know ya'll, but sorry to hear that. Stuff like this can make you want to say stalking oughta be a hanging offense like murder used to be.:cuss:
 
You can always say that you beleive that the intruder was going to cause you serious harm but you still have to prove it.
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Correction: It is not necessary that the person actually intend to do you bodily harm, it is only necessary that you believe such to be the case. And the burden is on the prosecution to prove that you didn't believe it, the burden is not on you to prove that you did.

In the case under discussion, I agree on the lights and motion sensors ... and with the advice to be sure the lights are high enough that he can't reach them. Use floodlights with double heads -- makes it twice as much work to disable any one light.

Restraining order? Good for the paper trail, otherwise useless. Keep in mind, though, that she needs to have documentation of stalking before the court will issue an order. Tapes of the phone messages would be a good start. If her answering machine is one with just a microchip, send her to Radio Shack for a mini recorder so she can take the messages off the answering machine before erasing them or before a power glitch wipes them out.

Then think about an inexpensive automatic game camera. The ones that you strap to a tree and that take pictures of deer feeding at night, that kind. There are some that aren't horribly expensive. (Not terribly good, either, but the images would be as good as what banks and convenience stores usually get from their security cameras.) One covering each door and maybe one covering her bedroom window (or the computer room window, if she sleeps on the second floor) would be decent coverage. If the houses are close together, maybe the one covering the side window even gets mounted on a neighbor's house, from the second floor window. That would make it even more difficult for him to get at it once it has him on tape (or celluloid, or whatever those things shoot on). Photos or videos would be useful both to obtain a restraining order, and to prove that he is violating it (if she should get one, and if he should violate it -- which he undoubtedly will).

The gun for her is a good idea ONLY if she will learn to use it and not hesitate to use it if the situation arises. If this guy is a martial arts instructor, the LAST thing she needs is to stand there holding a gun she's hesitant to pull the trigger on. If she cannot commit to using it, she might just as well buy a shiny new gun and send it to him as a Christmas present.
 
VERY bad idea if done before. And redundant if done after.

If you contact the university before he is arrested for stalking and tell them he is a stalker, you are asking ... no, BEGGING ... to be sued for slander. If you put it in writing it'll just convert slander into libel.
 
ctdonath said:
About 2 hours ago I learned that my wife's sister's husband's sister has been murdered by a stalker.
Relatives are flying to Paris right now to identify the body.

Quit quivering about the creep on the porch.
Do what needs to be done.
Click to expand...
You have my sympathy CT. Best to your family.
 
the problem will not go away by itself...ever. polity ask this friend to stop being the victim.

the recorded phone messages and emails are enough to do something.where does this stalker live?how bout giving him alittle surveilance?
 
ctdonath, you have my sympathies.

I made my friend file a report with the cops, but now she is mad at me for making her upset. The guy has not been arround for the last week, and I can do no more, and maybe I have done too much.
Mauserguy
 
Yeah, the guy's been harassing her for months and YOU'RE the one who made her upset. :rolleyes:

I commend you for helping a friend in a time of need, but after this, if I were you, I'd find a new friend and let this one find someone else to be mad at.

Just think how mad she will be with you if anything really bad ever happens to her...:rolleyes:
 
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now she is mad at me for making her upset.
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Better than doing nothing and letting the stalker make her dead.
maybe I have done too much.
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Like WHAT? Let the police know that a very capable stalker is afoot? Convince her that this is not something to be dismissed lightly? Take steps to protect her life - and by ripple effect, protect the lives of those who would be traumatized by her brutal slaying?

Ignoring evil does not make it go away.
Evil will spread until it is opposed - and can only be opposed on a personal & viceral level. All too often we wait for bad things to just go away. All to often we try to reason with evil, file paperwork demanding compliance with good, and say "stop! or I'll say 'stop!' again!".

Too often we choose to do nothing until a lethal assault is in progress. That's too :banghead:'ing late.
Recall Cooper's Color Codes (grossly paraphrased):
- White: unaware of risk
- Yellow: aware of possibility of risk
- Orange: aware of potential risk
- Red: aware of actual risk
Your friend should be at Red. We're talking Hurricane Katrina analogy here: the threat is named, identified, and incoming - with only when and how and to what degree unsure, and one is gravely foolish to not prepare accordingly. If an assault fails to materialize, it's only because he had a few higher brain cells spark and convinced him maybe it wasn't a good idea. Hopefully the police report was acted on, cops contacted him and suggested backing off.

The warning was there. Take confidence that you did act on it, regardless of how it upset her; one's family may be upset by being abruptly thrown in the car and hastily drivine out of New Orleans, especially if "nothing happens", but it's far better than being killed by a square-on Category 5 that gave a week's warning.

Your friend may be lucky and no harm occur. Remind her: mine wasn't.
 
My Mom had a guy hang out on the porch and smoke cigarrettes in front of the front window after dark for a while... Her dad's little Colt Pocket Auto next to her coffee cup and remote control on the table under the lamp in front of the window seemed to fix the problem rather quickly. Apparently he was not fond of the idea of being shot.
 
Hawkmoon said:
VERY bad idea if done before. And redundant if done after.

If you contact the university before he is arrested for stalking and tell them he is a stalker, you are asking ... no, BEGGING ... to be sued for slander. If you put it in writing it'll just convert slander into libel.
Click to expand...


Not at all. Remember, they have the tapes from the answering machines, and e-mails from the stalker. And now they have a police report as well.

It's important to contact the university so that he doesn't do this to anyone else, especially since he teaches.

I.G.B.
 
DontBurnMyFlag:
i wonder how fond the BG would be of getting triple S'd.
Click to expand...

I'm wondering if I know this term ("triple S'd) by another name.

I think Amish_Bill's mom had the right idea, although fair warning is arguably not always the best idea from a tactical standpoint.
 
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