Creep on the Porch

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She needs to get the police involved now.
A dog would be good but a gun would be better if you show her how to use
it correctly.

About 11 years ago or so the same thing happened to my old Bio teacher, but
not that severe. The guy sent her roses after they split and would sometimes
call, nothing too off the wall, at least that I heard.

She was a nice lady, divorced with 2 young children. I had met the older boy
once a very nice bright kid. One morning the ex-boyfriend shows up and
shoots her dead at breakfast then kills himself. I believe all this was in front
of her two children. I think the youngest was too young to remember much
if any, sadly the older will probably never forget
 
theres not many things i can add that havent already been said. however, a restraining order is not a cure all. Many people dont abide by them, and if they get arrested, the will do it again with more anger once they get out.

or...leave the dead bolt off the door, when he walks in, shoot him.

or....just forget i said that
 
Some pointers:

A) CHECK yourself. The temptation to be "Capt. Adventure, Defender of Women" is very strong, and can lead to bad judgement.

B) SHE must take SOME positive action (such as documenting the events, etc) towards rectifying her own situation. Total passivity is a very bad sign, and it profoundly limits the good you can achieve. Things can also backfire badly. If this is the issue it seems to be, the best, most durable good you can do is to help her find her spine, rather than confront the stalker for her. (google up "enabling" for background on this)

C) Unless you've got some resources, like a member of the stalker's family willing to sit the stalker down and tell him to stop being such a pathetic unstable creep, it's very difficult to resolve the situation without the police.

Long story short:

In the early 90's, after my wife to be and I started dating, she had a stalker problem. She didn't want to involve the police, as the pathetic guy had enough problems in his life, but it took a team, lead by her, backed up by me, and including the stalker's parents to get him to knock his creepy nonsense off.

In her case, she already knew where her spine was, which was the third clue I'd found a keeper. :D
 
I think that she needs to be more proactive, but she doesn't want to make waves.
Click to expand...

Please try to convince her that the waves have already been made. Does she want to swim away, or drown?
 
Don't do anything. You've already pointed out options, that's all you 'need' to do.

As a free choice advocate, I believe that a woman can make decisions for herself, even ones that others may consider 'wrong.'

Its her choice not to get police involved. Respect it.

Let it go.
 
Firstly

Call the police. It will give a paper trail, they will know something is up and can make an effort to do soemthing about it. Also, worst case scenerio something does happen, they know to nail the bastard.

Also, Id recomend taking her to the range and either getting her her own gun or loaning one of your's. Don't just give her one. Take her to the range and teach her how to use it. Gun is usless if she is just going to be skittish and by the time she pulls the trigger the gun is slapped aside and pointed at the wall. Teach her how to carry get her to carry it at all time's when she is home and teach her how to get it out of the holster and pointed at him. Don't care what belt you are, bullet's move a lot faster then you do so long as the person with the gun know's how to use it.

And dog's are great. But just getting a dog isn't always going to help. Some people jsut arn't good with dog's and the dog isn;t guaranteed to bark. Heck some dogs will run up sniff the guy and lick him to death.

Love the guinea fowl idea, redneck burgler alarm
 
And WT I am all for free choice.

But there is nothing wrong with extreme pursuation. And heck if I am letting one of my friend's get herself killed by some stalker because she doesn't want to deal with it.

Also something I left out.

If you are there and it happen's, do something.

But do not search the guy out and confront him in a parking lot. Something happen's then you at best look like the bad guy, at worst you end up hurt and he ends up po'd and in a rage.
 
...she doesn't want to make waves
Click to expand...

My wife calls this the "Be Nice Problem" ... too often women are taught not to be "mean" or "pre-judge" people, but to "Be Nice" ... this is how the get on an elevator with a dodgy looking guy and then find themselves raped and/or dead.

I bet she also tries to "be friends" with every guy she's ever broken up with.
I bet she also doesn't complain when she gets bad service in a restaurant (or she still tips 20%+)


Part of feminist dogma is built around the perception that women are the victims of evil male aggression ... well its this whole "Be Nice Problem" that brings it on themselves. :rolleyes:



One way to explain it to her is that if she doesn't make a couple of waves now, then she may be put in the position where she's going to have to kill this guy ... what's worse, having this guy "talked to" by couple of cops or seeing him buried? Which is "nicer"?

Or is it just nicer to let this guy stalk, rape and murder her?
 
Lemme see if I got this right.

She doesn't think enough of herself to take even the most elemental steps to begin the process of defending herself BUT she has no problem with you getting yourself into deep yogurt defending her? Do I have it right?

You don't need to be wasting yourself if she fails to see any value in her own life. I realize extreme passivity is symptomatic of psychological aberations but 'nuf is 'nuf.

The problem will not get any better until the goober is confronted. My 2 cents is to lay out a gameplan for her to begin the process of defending herself. If she balks, get out of dodge. She is about to make her problem with the goober a major problem for you. Don't let it happen.
 
1) 12 gauge.
2) Restraining order.
3) Have a nice day.
EDIT:
I just read back more carefully. If she isn't willing to "make waves" and if a dog is too much "mess" then she's already made her decision. She will be a victim.
 
The problem will not get any better until the goober is confronted. My 2 cents is to lay out a gameplan for her to begin the process of defending herself. If she balks, get out of dodge. She is about to make her problem with the goober a major problem for you. Don't let it happen.
Click to expand...
Sound advice.
 
Alex, he shook hands with the guy...
Click to expand...

Yes, but other than that incident has he seen the guy hanging around the house?

Has he heard the messages on the voicemail?

Has he read the emails?
 
I would:

  • Call law enforcment.
  • Get the events on paper and get a pretoction (restraining) order.
    If anything were to happen (such a lethal force) it would make it
    a lot easier to prove self defence.
  • Tell her to post a sign that reads "No Tresspassong, inrtuders will be shot".
  • This needs to be posted on all doors and, if she has a fence with
    a gate, post it there too.
  • Get her a gun and teach her how to use it.


None the less. In Ohio, even if someone is unlawfully in your house you still can not use lethal force unless they pose serioud bodily harm to you or your family and you exercised a duty to retreat. You can always say that you beleive that the intruder was going to cause you serious harm but you still have to prove it.

Myself, I don't care. If anyone breaks in my house, they get a comand to leave and warning shot from a distace. If they dont leave then I'll shoot them. ( Just not on my fiance's good dining room carpet :D )
 
MAUSERGUY:
I agree with most everything said so far.

A) CHECK yourself. The temptation to be "Capt. Adventure, Defender of Women" is very strong, and can lead to bad judgement.
Click to expand...
This is good advice. Another way of saying don't make her problem, your problem.

I don't think many on this thread understand the role of the police in a truely oppressive government. It is completly undersandable why she would not want to call the police. She is probably thinking she will have to "pay" for her protection or have more than the stalker to fear. All that said, she needs to grow a spine and realise she no longer lives in the old country.

And what were you thinking going to confront a black belt martial artist with a baseball bat? Especially if you have a shot gun available in your arsenol.

Next time she calls for your help, CALL THE POLICE YOURSELF. You are to be commended for wanting to help a friend. Now be a friend and help her in a way that will accomplish something.
 
Just make sure you don't make it worse by giving the guy attention. She should keep all emails and phone messages but NEVER RESPOND. Not even to say "go away." For these guys any attention, even negative is better than none.

He needs to be completely 100% ignored as if he doesn't exist. That means you don't go have a talk with him and aside from an RO don't have the police talk to him or charge him with something petty. This will all escalate the situation and he can delude himself into thinking there is still a dysfunctional relationship.

Now I'm not saying to ignore the problem...just the creep. Be proactive in planning how she will protect herself if necessary. The idea is that when he gets no feedback for a long period of time, he won't be getting the attention he needs for his fantasy....then he will shift his bullseye onto someone new. Guys like this don't change, they just find new targets. Add "The Gift of Fear" by Gavin DeGraw to her reading list.

She needs to be firm in ignoring him...if she breaks down and talks to the guy it just teaches him the limits (Oh, if I call 50 times then I'll get attention)

Good luck.
 
Dasmi:

+1

Someone... ANYONE needs to have the come to Jesus talk with her. This creep is 1 or 2 steps away from a major league felony.

2 words for you. Twelve. Gauge.

Stalker come in all shapes and sizes but the sound of this is very, very creepy, and would be enough to give me heebie jeebies(sp?). Stalker, peeper, exposer, rapist, murderer. Kind of like the sexual predator's path of progression. Not all of these folks move to the "next level", but it sounds like this guy on the wrong 12 step program.

Not trying to live the woman's life for her is a good idea. That said, I'd let the woman know she was in grave danger, and in no uncertain terms. Were it me, my first order of business:

Call office, not feeling well.

Off to sporting goods store of choice. Purchase shotgun, gauge 12, 1 each. ammunition, gauge, 12 buckshot 3 50 round cases.

Proceed to local range. practice. Make sure shotgun and I are a match, feels good in hands. Spend a few minutes contemplating choice. Having done so, firmly of the belief it is the right choice...

Breakfast.

Police station. Begin paper trail. express my extreme fear. Have witness.
Discuss safety strategy w/ the pros. How to alter routine, make self safer. After done, see if female officer available, sometimes, the man-woman communication doesn't always work 100%.

Make self more safe using common sense advice from 2 officers above which I likely already knew, but wasn't paying enough attention to.

Learn to live with cell phone charged, and ready.

Hopefully cops catch this nut-job before he causes more harm. Chances are, he already has, and just hasn't been caught.
 
Dark house and a 5 million candlepower spotlight the next time he looks in. It would be hard to attack her with his corneas burnt out.

Just call the cops.
 
My wife calls this the "Be Nice Problem"
Click to expand...

My brother-in-law is LEO, and for Christmas last year, he gave my mother a copy of The Gift of Fear. The book teaches potential victims (not just women) how to react to situations like the questionable guy in the elevator, someone you've dated that won't leave you alone, someone that wants to help you with your groceries in the parking lot, etc... The book points out that in each of these situations people have an instinct that something's wrong, but fall victim to the perception that in our "civilized" world, refusing to get on the elevator, refusing the good samaritan's help, is considered "rude." The book teaches potential victims how to tune-in to their instincts, and how to have the self-confidence and intelligence to make the right choice, even if socially taboo.

He gave it to my mother because she is someone that is always "too nice," and he's seen what happens to people that don't follow their natural instincts.
 
There's some useful stuff in The Gift of Fear ... but there's also lots of anti-gun drivel ... lots of Kellerman Study type BS about how you're LESS safe with a gun (actually I think he quotes the original 47/1 Kellerman lie).

But other then the Brady propaganda its a marginally useful read.


I'd recommend Armed and Female by Paxton Quigley instead.
 
jeez

I get this stuff all the time - "I don't want the police involved." Conversely, I get this all the time - "I have a restraining order."

Then people chime in about doing violence to a stalker.

And some other person than the potential or purported victim decides to be the rescuer.

Logic and being a problem solver don't necessarily work.

You sit down and talk. If she doesn't want to talk, then you have the message to take a hike out of her life and not be a rescuer.

You have to have an approach so that both she and you have the information on the table and the options. If you can't do this, then take a hike.

You simply ask her the following:

1. what is the problem;
2. who is going to solve the problem;
3. when is the problem going to be solved;
4. where is the problem going to be solved;
5. why is the problem going to be solved or not solved; and, most importantly;
6. how is the problem going to be solved.

Every one speaks about going to the police. The police don't file for injunctions. There is no crime committed. It is a civil matter in most jurisdictions, until a restraining order is issued.

So, you get on the horn, call the local bar association or go down to court and speak to the clerk. You will be walked through the process of getting a restraining order. There are even free classes in the metropolitan areas.

When she decides that it costs too much money (like the advice is free and the filing fee about $50) or takes too much time, take a hike. You chose poorly.

In many jurisdictions, you can directly file a complaint with the City Attorney and have a city attorney hearing. 200,000 such hearings take place within the City of Los Angeles every year. It doesn't cost anything and if the facts warrant prosecution or if the other guy doesn't show up, the City Attorney (usually a young attorney) will make a recommendation to the boss.

Yeah, men are programmed to be rescuers. Maybe this time there is a good reason. However, if it is serious and she cannot take action, you are forewarned about the future relationship. :banghead:
 
Stalking is a crime for a very good reason.

She's been living under a rock if she doesn't understand why she should call the police.
 
People keep recommending you get her a gun and teach her how to use it but what I can't figure out is why you came to her rescue with a baseball bat? If I was responding to a prowler/stalker situation (I would let the cops do it before I would) I'd leave the baseball bat at home and show up with a firearm.

Maybe you need to get a gun and learn how to use it at the same time as her.
 
Looks like she's refusing to admit that this is a serious problem.

I've known a few women like this. Deep down they all knew their boyfriend/husband/ex was a real problem, but they were too scared of the implications to admit it to themselves.

I don't get it, but for some folks it's easier to bury their heads in the sand than it is do accept the existance of a problem.

Until she can come to terms with the harsh reality, nothing you do will help. The best thing you can do is help her see the potential gravity of her situation.

So how do you do that?

Hell, I dunno. Only one solution seems even slightly useful: Get a lot of her trusted friends to tell her that this is a serious matter that requires serious attention. If she hears it from enough different people, maybe she'll let it sink in.

Or maybe she won't. In the end, it's her choice. :(
 
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