Reloading Cost by the Box

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I can't recall ever having a passion for reloading thinking about all the money I was going to save myself over factory ammo in the process.


But I have gotten excited over shooting calibers or rounds that simply aren't available for sale. I've loaded Varmint 32-20s with 110 grain V-Max rounds. I've loaded hot 38 Supers in all sorts of competition and defense-loadings that no one sells. I load up .308s for matches that my rifle shoots well, not the "average chamber and barrel". I could go on and on.

And back when the ammo shortage was at it's peak, because I reloaded I could still shoot. Components cost less to inventory - or stockpile for those of you who like to whine about life not being fair and hate on us guys that planned ahead. Having components like primers and powder that work across many different calibers means we can shoot whatever we wanted, as long as we had a bullet for it.

Flexibility; better quality; freedom from being limited to a small variety of factory-loaded options and independence from the stock-outs at the stores is what makes me enjoy reloading. The reduced cost is just a bonus. I shoot a lot more because my money goes farther, and I'm a much better shooter because of it.
 
Some cartridges cost so much to shoot, it takes all the joy out of shooting if you don't reload. "Bang! (cheeseburger), Bang! (cheeseburger)", etc. .45 Colt and .41 Magnum come to mind...
 
zxcvbob said:
If I ever have to move again, I'm screwed. Maybe my truck will hold all the lead and the bullets, but I dunno. It's [the truck] just a half ton...
Click to expand...

Sounds like you'll get to add the cost of a new truck to the reloading tab... :)
 
Bullfrog - Yes, overhead is not capital. For this discussion, what is the difference it makes?

As for the value of payback. For this discussion, I think that most people would be worried if they were 'saving money' on each round but didn't get paided back for 10 years. Most of us would consider that 'not saving money'.

Right?
 
jelenko,

I like to think that with my earlier example I illustrated how the cost of the reloading equipment itself is very quickly dwarfed by the cost of the components, and is insignificant to the total cost of handloaded ammunition.

About the only way someone would not come out ahead loading his own ammunition is if he bought the equipment and only loaded one or two hundred rounds of inexpensive pistol ammunition, such as 9mm.


We're not talking about spending 10 or 20 thousand dollars on manufacturing equipment here. For about the price of a quality handgun or rifle someone can outfit himself very nicely. Really the only costs that matter are the cost of the components needed to load compared to the cost of factory ammunition.
 
But just as Economics is not concerned with the study of money, the cost in opportunity cost is not a dollar value.
....The opportunity cost for reloading 200 rounds of ammunition was having clean dishes
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Sorry Bullfrog, but I don't think that your link supports what you are trying to say.

All costs, whether monetary or nonmonetary are opportunity costs
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Opportunity cost can be either monetary or non-monetary but as Dr. Sowell so often points out, dollars are a convenient way of evaluating the cost in a manner everyone can relate to. One of his examples is that the price you are willing to pay for goods (say oranges) represents your willingness to exchange a medium (dollars) for the convenience of not growing your own oranges and, hopefully, doing something else instead worth more to you (and others so you make money!)

Your clean dishes cost you something, and we can convert it to a dollar cost by analyzing what you could have done with your time in different scenarios (like working,explicit), what you would have paid someone to do them (explicit), or what type of tongue lashing you would endure before the wife does them herself and makes you sleep on the couch (implicit). It all costs something, you have to put a value on it and that is tricky in the latter case but I bet you'd be willing to pay something to have someone clean the dishes instead of sleeping on the couch IF you FELT had enough money to jusitfy it.

I don't think it is worth getting into a peeing match over it because not many people are willing to look at the situation without resorting to the, "I wasn't doing anything anyway so it didn't cost me anything," line or some other excuse for devaluating their time. For instance,

Really the only costs that matter are the cost of the components needed to load compared to the cost of factory ammunition
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What if you took all the time and money you spent on reloading and sunk it into practice and training? What if it enabled you to become the next Jerry Mikulek? What if you then could train people for $250k a year? You sure that the only cost in reloading was your components or does it include the $250k you let go (opportunity cost). Reloading wouldn't look all that good to you then, would it? It cost you a lot more than components, because you let go hundreds of thousands in earnings to pull a handle as a hobby.

As you point out, very few people are willing to entertain such economic arguments and this won't change.
 
I actually found some of that "free range brass".
It's very, very rare at my club, but some schmuck, just sprayed brass all over & left.
I'll bet I picked up about 10 lbs worth.

It's all 7.62x39, but it's 100% brass (FC headstamp)
So I won't be reloading it, but it'll get me some $$ for primers next I go to the recyclers.
 
Actually, it illustrates what I'm trying to say quite well. The link to those lecture notes are concerned with discussing the differences between accounting profits and economic profits, so you see dollars expressed. That's the specific point of the lecture.

But it states what an opportunity cost is quite well right before that text you lifted out:

You know that the value of the best alternative forgone is the economic cost of anything from lard to romance.
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Here's the definition -
Opportunity cost is the cost of any activity, among mutually exclusive choices, measured in terms of the value of the best alternative that is not chosen (that is foregone). ​

Economists do NOT try to relate opportunity costs to monetary values when teaching the concept. In fact, when I learned it my professor said the opportunity cost of coming to class tonight was watching a college basketgame game.

Another example - relationships. I love both Sally and Sara, but I cannot marry two women. The opportunity cost to marry Sally is having Sara as my wife, and vice versa.

Business tries to assign value to mutually exclusive choices, because their goal is maximizing profits. So when a manufacturer decides between making women's shoes or women's purses, shoes is the opportunity cost to make purses. Or purses is the opportunity cost for making shoes. The rational choice is which provides more profit.



The whole point of this exercise is to reject the notion of people here who say time and time again that reloading has a “hidden cost” – our time – which must be assigned a monetary value, otherwise the cost comparison isn’t a “true and fair comparison”. Nonsense. The difference in monetary cost between factory and hand loaded ammunition is the cost of what you buy. Period. This isn’t business. If you’re sacrificing an activity than earns personal income to make time to reload, you probably don’t have time go shooting either. Still doesn't change the fact that reloaded rounds are cheaper than factory.

The cost of your time truly is expressed in, “what else were you going to do tonight?”
 
Deavis said:
What if you took all the time and money you spent on reloading and sunk it into practice and training? What if it enabled you to become the next Jerry Mikulek? What if you then could train people for $250k a year? You sure that the only cost in reloading was your components or does it include the $250k you let go (opportunity cost). Reloading wouldn't look all that good to you then, would it? It cost you a lot more than components, because you let go hundreds of thousands in earnings to pull a handle as a hobby.
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I don’t know anyone who got nationally ranked in Highpower Rifle that didn’t reload. Of the several dozen accomplished sport handgunners I personally know, only one of them doesn’t reload. Even your friend Jerry reloads; he uses RCBS presses and equipment.

Make $250k a year training others? Hate to break this to ya, but trainers don’t make that much.

Take some training and practice a bit huh? Perhaps I’ll look into that. But you know I do kind of enjoy pretending to be Smaug, perched high atop my pile of loading components and ammunition like its treasure.
 
It took me about an hour to reload a box of rifle ammo last night.
The components cost about $10.00/box, (not counting the cases I'd already saved).
The only available factory ammo for that rifle within 75 miles of here cost's $35.00 per box (and doesn't group nearly as well).
There was no opportunity cost involved that would have yielded profits.
I bought my reloading equipment used, over 20 years ago for $200.00 and it included all but a few of the little gadgets needed to load.
But I don't reload to save money. It's just rewarding to try and make ammo that shoots more accurately than what you can buy.
 
Opportunity cost can be either monetary or non-monetary but as Dr. Sowell so often points out, dollars are a convenient way of evaluating the cost in a manner everyone can relate to. One of his examples is that the price you are willing to pay for goods (say oranges) represents your willingness to exchange a medium (dollars) for the convenience of not growing your own oranges and, hopefully, doing something else instead worth more to you (and others so you make money!)

Your clean dishes cost you something, and we can convert it to a dollar cost by analyzing what you could have done with your time in different scenarios (like working,explicit), what you would have paid someone to do them (explicit), or what type of tongue lashing you would endure before the wife does them herself and makes you sleep on the couch (implicit). It all costs something, you have to put a value on it and that is tricky in the latter case but I bet you'd be willing to pay something to have someone clean the dishes instead of sleeping on the couch IF you FELT had enough money to jusitfy it.

I don't think it is worth getting into a peeing match over it because not many people are willing to look at the situation without resorting to the, "I wasn't doing anything anyway so it didn't cost me anything," line or some other excuse for devaluating their time. For instance,
Click to expand...

Yep that kind of thinking takes the fun out of everything. I lost $300 worth of time going shooting today. You guys should feel special because I lost $400 worth of time talking to you all on the interweb.

What if you took all the time and money you spent on reloading and sunk it into practice and training?
Click to expand...

If I didn't reload I couldn't shoot near as much or often. I have around $800 in equipment, that's not going to get you very far with factory ammo.
 
Are we off-topic?

A good discussion (and I am among those who count a dollar value on my time spent reloading, but just for academic purposes - I would reload even if I had to value my time at zero in order to make the comparison of factory price minus handloaded price a positive one), but off-topic I think.

In my original post, I just wanted to induce a discussion comparing the cost of reloads to the cost of factory measured in boxes of ammo vs dollars as the medium of exchange/measurement.

In that way, I thought to achieve a comparison of factory vs handloads that was independent of local markets (thinking components, equipment and factory ammo would be, in relative terms, higher or lower by the same degree no matter where you were, or when -2011 or 1970). I thought it would even transcend caliber (except for a few of the really cheap or extremely expensive ones, like 9mm, 223 Remington or 500 Smith&Wesson or 416 Rigby).

But I am enjoying the debate and learning a lot about assumptions, about economics, about loading and about psychology.

Lost Sheep
 
A good discussion (and I am among those who count a dollar value on my time spent reloading, but just for academic purposes - I would reload even if I had to value my time at zero in order to make the comparison of factory price minus handloaded price a positive one), but off-topic I think.

In my original post, I just wanted to induce a discussion comparing the cost of reloads to the cost of factory measured in boxes of ammo vs dollars as the medium of exchange/measurement.
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I am curious what dollar amount you figure for reloading, I don't put a dollar amount to any of my hobbies. You are not missing work to reload so should the rate be the same as your job? Also if you are going to figure an hourly rate for reloading should you not figure the same rate for your time to drive down to buy factory ammo plus the gas? If people are going to figure time for reloading then it should be fair across the board or you are cheating the other direction.
 
The best answer I've heard is that either way you're going to spend the same amount of money. With reloading you'll just put more rounds down range.
 
I'm with falic, I don't miss work to reload, I don't miss family time, my chores are done. I do miss some couch potato time. But when I go to the range I can shoot three or four boxes instead of one. Rick
 
Bullfrog,
Your comments are on target. Special ammo for example, 173 gr .308 are hard to find, I just loaded 400 of them. Having them all touch on the target, well, try to contain my smile. I shoot because it provides some joy in my life. I reload so I can have an abundance of joy.
You hit all the points in costs, great job. Anyone that fails to understand your comments isn't trying. Let them pay more and have less joy.
 
I recall during the 'great ammo shortage' over a year ago I happened to be simply window shopping one day wandering the aisles at my nearest Cabela's store. Saw several folks get disappointed when their caliber's shelf was near empty.

I distinctly remember thinking " No worries for you Randy - you have components and can make all the ammo you want."

I ain't no CPA ner nuthin', but I cypher out that THAT sense of well being (ammo wise) is priceless.
 
RustyFN said:
I am curious what dollar amount you figure for reloading, I don't put a dollar amount to any of my hobbies. You are not missing work to reload so should the rate be the same as your job? Also if you are going to figure an hourly rate for reloading should you not figure the same rate for your time to drive down to buy factory ammo plus the gas? If people are going to figure time for reloading then it should be fair across the board or you are cheating the other direction.
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Sometimes zero, sometimes my wage rate (after taxes, of course) and sometimes I let the calculations tell me how much I am paying myself. Sometimes my "wages" (the money saved per hour of reloading) is nil, and rarely negative. Sometimes $10-12 per hour or more.

I just crunch the numbers for the mental exercise and entertainment purposes. Obviously, I am easily entertained.

"I love work. I could sit and watch it for hours." I don't know whose quote that is, but it is precious.

Lost Sheep
 
Brass is the single most expensive component in most rounds.

Using it over is the big source of savings.

With lower pressure loads (.45 ACP, .38 special) the brass can last a LONG time.

You are more likely to lose a .45 ACP shell than wear it out.
 
Right now, my cost/box is running as follows:

40 S&W = $6/50
9mm = $5.50/50
.223 = $4.20/20
.308 Win = $9/20........Using Nosler custom comp HPBT bullets, match grade ammo.
 
Some cartridges cost so much to shoot, it takes all the joy out of shooting if you don't reload. "Bang! (cheeseburger), Bang! (cheeseburger)", etc. .45 Colt and .41 Magnum come to mind...
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Coincidentally (or maybe not) I handload for both of those cartridges :)

But 90%+ of my handloading is for .45 acp, because that is what I carry daily and what I shoot weekly. Without casting, my .45 acp rounds cost about $6.00 per box of 50. That makes weekly shooting affordable.

In comparison, if I bought 50 rounds at Wal-Mart every week for $19.99, the difference in one year would be $728.

I have been handloading for about three years now, so...by that calculation I am $2184 ahead.

Minus about $439 for my press, $40 for a set of dies, another $100 for manuals, scale, calipers...I guess I am only $1605 ahead...and gaining at the rate of $14 per week ($728/yr) forever.... :)

A note on fixed/sunk costs:
I have put a certain amount into my Dillon press and dies, etc...
I have taken Accounting and business classes, and I understand the terms.

But I am not in business, so I cannot write any of these off.

However, if I ever decide to get out of hand loading, I can get a fair percentage of my investment back. So these costs are largely recoverable.
 
Per round, by reloading I save a fortune.

I also gain the opportunity to learn (e.g. .45 to 40 Sabot through a .45 LC revolver is a cool idea (and WILL fire the first time) but shreds of sabot (sooner or later) clog the cylinder gap, preventing cylinder rotation).

And I can, if careful, experiment (see above for a fail). I didn't do well w/ trying to make .223 Timbs either.

So far I know I can jam out some plinking ammo and reasonable higher-vel loads (built ny the book) to get comfy w/ how premium ammo oughtta flow.

If I look at it as $$ per hour + set up costs, I lose. If I look as deriving pleasure (for whatever reason) I win.
 
I kind of chuckle when folks put a 'value' on their time spent reloading. If you are in the garage pushing the handle instead of doing the things that allow you to sit in the garage, your priorities are hosed..

When reloading, I choose to dedicate that time instead of say, ride my scooter, wash the truck and watch TV. I get a particular buzz knowing I am stockpiling what the 'man' will come for one day. California already has twice tried to ban online ammo sales.

Further, the liberal anti-gunners just hate what I am doing as well.

I digress.....

I reload because I shoot.

-178S
 
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