Remington 360 Buckhammer

[mongoslow]

Remington has reincarnated the .35 Remington as a straight wall rimmed cartridge aimed at lever action rifles to be used in straight wall restricted states, and Henry is offering about 5 new rifles chambered in it ( bet on new Marlins too) it also appears that Federal will also offer 180 and 200 grain power shocks in 360BKHM.
this appears to be playing on the popularity of the 350L in these
states and hoping an offering in lever gun will take off like the 350L did.

 

[mcb]

350 Legend is more like a straight wall 35 Remington since they are both rimless cartridges 360 Buck Hammer is really more like 30-30 with the neck blown straight-wall for 35 cal bullet.

Given that Vista owns both Remington and Federal I would bet my lunch that both the Remington ammo and the Federal ammo are coming off the exact same machines and going into different boxes.

If I still lived in Ohio I think this would have an appeal to me alot. I spent several years hunting deer in Ohio with a Winchester 9410 using 410 slugs because I wanted to hunt deer with lever action gun and that was the easiest option. Win1887/1901 were really hard to find. I moved out the year they allowed straight wall cartridges. I do have a 450 Bushmaster if I got back to Ohio but down here in TN where I do my hunting I can use just about anything I want.

I think this cartridge loaded with heavy for caliber bullets is going to be an excellent suppressed caliber. The manual action of the lever gun and this cartridge would work great for suppression.

 

[adcoch1]

Hopefully a Henry single shot will be introduced as well. Rimmed cartridges and single shot rifles go together like peas and carrots!

 

[mongoslow]

Hopefully a Henry single shot will be introduced as well. Rimmed cartridges and single shot rifles go together like peas and carrots!

I saw one of Henry's singles on Remington's introduction page

 

[someguy2800]

Yawn

 

[3Crows]

I will take one because I think it will be fun to load for and I have had occasion to hunt straight wall states.

 

[Ranger99]

I'll be somewhat interested if the guns
and ammunition are working man
affordable, but I remain doubtful

 

[mgmorden]

If I lived in a straight wall state I would definitely look at one (though I'd probably opt for .350 Legend), but as someone who simply might VISIT a straight wall state I'd probably just opt for a slug gun (likely a Savage 220) if necessary - it covers more bases for the states that are shotgun only and still haven't made the straight wall allowance.

 

[mcb]

I

If I lived in a straight wall state I would definitely look at one (though I'd probably opt for .350 Legend), but as someone who simply might VISIT a straight wall state I'd probably just opt for a slug gun (likely a Savage 220) if necessary - it covers more bases for the states that are shotgun only and still haven't made the straight wall allowance.

I don't believe there are any slug only states left. I think Michigan's southern slug only zone is about all that remains. Iowa and Illinois where the last two to fall IIRC. 350 Legend vs 360 Buck Hammer, not enough difference ballistically to matter. Rimmed vs Rimless pick the one that works in the action you like.

 

[someguy2800]

I

I don't believe there are any slug only states left. I think Michigan's southern slug only zone is about all that remains. Iowa and Illinois where the last two to fall IIRC. 350 Legend vs 360 Buck Hammer, not enough difference ballistically to matter. Rimmed vs Rimless pick the one that works in the action you like.

Minnesota is still slug only in the southern half of the state. You can also use a handgun in the slug zone but of course now the braced AR pistol loophole has been shut so that’s not much help to anyone.

 

[Varminterror]

If I lived in a straight wall state I would definitely look at one (though I'd probably opt for .350 Legend)

The idea, it seems, is to market this as an “non-AR alternative” while exceeding the performance of the 350Legend.

The cost of conversion on this by ammo manufacturers and rifle manufacturers is near zero - mostly overhead. 35 caliber bullets and 30-30 brass production lines are long standing, and converting existing rifle models to this is a simple issue of barrel inventory and a little different profile on the carrier. Easy peasy, no investment, no retooling, just marketing overhead.

Will it be the next 30-30? Nope. Will it be a top overall market leading cartridge? Nope. Will it have a home within the niche market of straightwall state hunters wanting a non-AR option with greater performance than revolver cartridge carbines and less recoil than 45-70, 450 Marlin, or 444Marlin? Sure.

I’d personally rather see a resurgence of 375win on the same principles, but for the guys in these straightwall markets (which I’d rather see be liberated anyway instead of being pandered to), adding another option to their relatively short list of existing legal options isn’t a bad thing.

 

[mgmorden]

I

I don't believe there are any slug only states left. I think Michigan's southern slug only zone is about all that remains. Iowa and Illinois where the last two to fall IIRC. 350 Legend vs 360 Buck Hammer, not enough difference ballistically to matter. Rimmed vs Rimless pick the one that works in the action you like.

I don't know if there are any state-wide slug onlys left but there are specific locales that are. I believe certain eastern counties in North Carolina are slug-only.

The idea, it seems, is to market this as an “non-AR alternative” while exceeding the performance of the 350Legend.

Probably, though I'm much more attached to bolt guns for hunting than anything and for that .350 Legend is the best choice (for now at least). I haven't looked at the ballistics much but they'd need to be significantly better to get me to carry a lever over a bolt gun (just for personal preference reasons).

 

[earlthegoat2]

350 Legend was a bore but this seems interesting since it is being developed with lever guns in mind.

I think Michigan's southern slug only zone is about all that remains.

Every straight wall state is a little bit different with their case lengths and single shot only or even a direct cartridge list.

Southern MI was actually one of the first ones to adopt “limited firearms” in the southern zone and has been a straight wall 1.8” max case state since 2014.

Illinois was the most recent adopter of straight walled cartridges into their firearms deer season but I believe it has to be single shot.

I would really like to see a big bore lever gun chambered in a 1.8” case length cartridge that is not a Big Horn Armory 460 S&W….though that would be pretty awesome to have. I would like to see something at a little bit lower pressure than that.

 

[Varminterror]

Probably, though I'm much more attached to bolt guns for hunting than anything and for that .350 Legend is the best choice (for now at least). I haven't looked at the ballistics much but they'd need to be significantly better to get me to carry a lever over a bolt gun (just for personal preference reasons).

Henry doesn’t build bolt guns, and jumping in now isn’t the right move for their brand. So they have to do SOMETHING to attempt to keep their respective niche micromarkets alive.

I’m not pretending there is a “huge market opportunity” or that there is even an “everlasting product opportunity” here, but when you’re Henry and Remington, polishing brass on the Titanic, watching more and more feverish fans of the levergun and the CoreLokt die every year, with no new blood to replace them, and you feed and house your family based on a paycheck derived from levergun and CoreLokt sales, you do things like this to keep the lights on a little longer.

 

[CraigC]

Very interesting. Looks like a proper levergun cartridge, using the bullets they should have used in the Legend.

 

[rust collector]

now the braced AR pistol loophole has been shut

This issue has not been settled. Framing it in anti-2A terminology does not help the cause. Please use your words wisely.

 

[someguy2800]

This issue has not been settled. Framing it in anti-2A terminology does not help the cause. Please use your words wisely.

I will use my words any which way I like.

 

[Plan2Live]

But the burning question is, will IMI make a BFR chambered in this new round so folks can have the companion revolver?

 

[Varminterror]

But the burning question is, will IMI make a BFR chambered in this new round so folks can have the companion revolver?

I haven’t checked the pressure standard yet, but I’m betting it’s aligned, so there should be no reason they couldn’t or wouldn’t, or frankly, why anyone couldn’t swap barrels with minimal cost and re-throat a 30-30 BFR. That’s a conversion I’d even be willing to take on in my garage!

 

[bigpower491]

Remington is a bit late to the party.....although a Henry lever gun in this would be nice.



I'll stick with me 450 bush bush and my revolvers tho. There's no replace for displacement

 

[Varminterror]

Remington is a bit late to the party.

Well, a guy kinda has to forgive Vista for taking a little while to secure this particular deal with Henry and cook up the new round to be standardize after only picking up Remington’s IP and production a couple of years ago, amidst the biggest civilian ammunition demand surge the world has ever seen. Gotta recall the roots of their expertise - distressed capital management - so they’re gonna milk the CoreLokt line any way they can!

 

[bigpower491]

Gotta recall the roots of their expertise - distressed capital management - so they’re gonna milk the CoreLokt line any way they can!

Agreed

 

[earlthegoat2]

Well, a guy kinda has to forgive Vista for taking a little while to secure this particular deal with Henry and cook up the new round to be standardize after only picking up Remington’s IP and production a couple of years ago, amidst the biggest civilian ammunition demand surge the world has ever seen. Gotta recall the roots of their expertise - distressed capital management - so they’re gonna milk the CoreLokt line any way they can!

Did the 30 Super Carry in that timeframe too.

 

[Varminterror]

Did the 30 Super Carry in that timeframe too.

In fairness, they did the 30 Super Carry with the Federal line, rather than the newly acquired Remington asset. Challenged, certainly, by the covid economy, but less demanding than finishing the race after starting from a stalled engine, upside down on the side of the road.

 

[rust collector]

Gotta recall the roots of their expertise - distressed capital management

Are you thinking of Cerberus, the venture capital outfit that plundered and sent the Remington empire down the tubes? Vista Outdoors is an outdoor brands company that spun off Alliant Techsystems, a big defense contractor, no?