Someone needs to make a new straight walled rifle cartridge for deer hunting in Ohio

[CoalTrain49]

Many states want to limit the distance that a projectile will travel in deer hunting areas because of flat terrain and/or the proximity of the hunting area to houses. Therefore, they have "shotgun only" hunting areas - I fail to see why safety concerns are "screwed up.

OK, there's nothing wrong with safety concerns. I was speaking more to the technical issue. Rifled slugs are less accurate than bullets from rifles. Bullet technology for the last 100 years has pretty much proven that to be true. So maybe you can tell me why someone would want to use a smooth bore 6 MOA slug gun for shooting medium game at short ranges rather than a 3 MOA straight wall cartridge in a rifle. About the only reason I can think of is it's cheaper because you can use one gun for two types of game.

Both have about the same effective range. That's why some states are making straight walled cartridges legal and old timers used them instead of shotguns.

 

[Arizona_Mike]

Probably bigger than you are looking for but there is a long straight .429 wildcat for lever action that allows the same gun to shoot .44 Mag and .44 Special. Ballistics are almost the same as the .444 Marlin.

Mike

 

[eastbank]

i load for my marlin cowboy in 38-55 and use 375 win cases and it shoots 3/4 inch 3 shot with 220 gr hornady bullets with 31grs RL 7 groups at 75 yards from a rest with a reciever sight. eastbank.

 

[CraigC]

The .444Marlin or the .460S&W in a Ruger No. 1.

 

[rodregier]

.45-70 with sabotted ammunition? Just a thought.

 

[Corn-Picker]

According to the only study I'm aware of on the subject, bullets are less likely to bounce and ricochet than slugs, and bullets travel less distance assuming it's a flat shot, which it should be on flat terrain.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...q6Bjg2rcIN8xZBDAg&sig2=NoU_Xj6MPnM1pTzpSt8t3A

Seems at the least that OH should allow bottlenecked rifles in the southeast portion of the state (terrain smilar to WV). I've never worried about it much because I don't live there. At least this development is a move in the right direction.

 

[herkyguy]

I would welcome a reduced general gun season in NC (currently 3 months) in favor of a month of straight-walled shooting.

I could really dial in a great .357 load for my 6" GP100 and have a great reason to buy a Winchester M77 in .357. That and a quality 1-4X powered scope would be a lot of fun and a new hunting challenge.

 

[spaniel]

"According to the only study I'm aware of on the subject, bullets are less likely to bounce and ricochet than slugs, and bullets travel less distance assuming it's a flat shot, which it should be on flat terrain.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...PnM1pTzpSt8t3A

Seems at the least that OH should allow bottlenecked rifles in the southeast portion of the state (terrain smilar to WV). I've never worried about it much because I don't live there. At least this development is a move in the right direction."

First of all, thank you for linking the study. I've heard people mention that study and reference it as "proof that rifles are no more dangerous or are safer than shotguns" but this is the first I've been able to actually review it.

However, I don't agree with your conclusion. The zero elevation scenario was the only one where the rifle was SLIGHTLY safer than the other weapons; in all other scenarios, the rifle bullet traveled further...and not just a little bit, but 30-40% further. Which, when you take into account the area put in danger, is more like double or even more.

As I indicated in my anecdote, I too found that soft-point Core-Lokts did not travel far after impacting the ground, but designs like the Match King and Barnes bullets took off and we deemed them unsafe to shoot except into a vertical backstop or very hilly country where we'd be shooting into a hill.

The study quoted only tested soft point rifle ammunition. There are plenty of deer hunting bullets out there which will travel further and ricochet a lot more.

There are plenty of field scenarios where it is not a flat shot...hunters shoot prone and sitting, or hold high and shoot over a deer. In ever scenario tested where there is any vertical angle to the shot, the rifle bullet traveled a lot further.

I do use a rifle for coyotes, but there are not nearly as many people in the country during that season, and I use only highly frangible bullets driven at high velocity -- fragmentation on impact, not viable for deer.

It is reasonable for states to dictate zones for different weapons. Michigan does so. Such a rule would be reasonable for southern Indiana, though they don't do it.

 

[Corn-Picker]

You raise some very good points, I had forgot that the study linked to was soft point bullets and didn't discuss the newer breeds of solid copper and a-frame type bullets.

As I said before, I don't get too worked up about it, as Ohio is not my home state.

 

[ugaarguy]

Maybe a .32 caliber that shoots a 160-180 grain bullet. Make it have enough juice on it that it shoots 200 yds on a rope. This would be a great round in a bolt action carbine, ruger #1, handi rifle or Remington pump.

It already exists, but you aren't going find it in a factory loading. It goes by the names .338 Whisper #2, and .338 Thumper. It's simply a straight walled .223 Remington case. All you have to do is rebarrel any of the hundreds of models of .223 Remington carbines and rifles that are out there. Thankfully straight walled metallic cartridges are the easiest cartridges to reload.

 

[Dr.Rob]

.300 whisper is a straight walled case hmmm... so is .351 Winchester

are semi autos hunting-legal in Ohio?

 

[ugaarguy]

Dr. Rob, .300 Whisper / .300 BLK has a small but clearly visible shoulder. You can also turn the inside of the case necks on .223 Rem / .221 Fireball case that's been blown out straight and get 9mm / .355" inch bullets in there. For semi-auto rifles cannelured bullets with the case mouth crimped into the cannelure are recommended because the thinned case necks need help gripping the bullets.

 

[Dr.Rob]

Sorry, I hadn't looked at my 'sample cartridge' in a while.


But those folks with 351's are gtg in Ohio right?

 

[ugaarguy]

But those folks with 351's are gtg in Ohio right?

Assuming that the list below is just an example, and not all inclusive I don't see why not. I'm a little surprised they skipped the .351 Win, but included the .41 Long Colt. Talk about an odd cartridge to throw into the mix.

http://www2.ohiodnr.gov/news/post/ohio-wildlife-council-approves-2014-2015-hunting-regulations, Paragraphs 6-8:

The council also approved straight-walled cartridge rifles for deer hunting. The rifles are the same caliber and use the same straight-walled cartridges that are currently legal for use in handguns. The new regulation is designed to allow additional opportunities for hunters that own these guns or want to hunt with these guns. These rifles have reduced recoil compared to larger shotguns, and the rifles are more accurate than the same caliber handgun.

Legal deer hunting rifles are chambered for the following calibers: .357 Magnum, .357 Maximum, .38 Special, .375 Super Magnum, .375 Winchester, .38-55, .41 Long Colt, .41 Magnum, .44 Special, .44 Magnum, .444 Marlin, .45 ACP, .45 Colt, .45 Long Colt, .45 Winchester Magnum, .45 Smith & Wesson, .454 Casull, .460 Smith & Wesson, .45-70, .45-90, .45-110, .475 Linebaugh, .50-70, .50-90, .50-100, .50-110 and .500 Smith & Wesson.

A new regulation states shotguns and straight-walled cartridge rifles used for deer hunting be loaded with no more than three shells in the magazine and chamber combined. The current hunting regulation states a shotgun must be plugged if it is capable of holding more than three shells.

 

[gpb]

Along the lines of the Winchester 351 there is also the Winchester 401. Winchester introduced the 401 in 1910 a few years after the 351 in a rifle similar to the Model 1907 SL. It was more powerful than the 351 and it is reported that many, at the time, found it more suitable for white tail deer and black bear than the 351.

 

[Gordon]

There is the offocial list; pick one! I'd pick the 45-70 for ammo/component availability and a hit with a 300 grain 45-70 on anything in Ohio up to 250 yards is gonna be final if kept within 10" of the aiming point. !895 Marlin works very well FWIW.

 

[herkyguy]

Meant to say ruger M77 in .357.....

 

[19-3Ben]

Not a .32 but 357 maximum would work, with a better selection of bullets for the job.

Totally. If Marlin would make a .357max lever gun, it would be one heck of a carbine. I can just imagine the increases in velocity you'd see with the longer barrel.

 

[jmorris]

You can get 1500 fps out of a 357mag carbine with 160g bullet with published data.

 

[bscott29]

Ok guys I appreciate all the input, but what rifle can I get that beats this?

 

[bscott29]

Maybe a 35-70? When I say that I don't mean a necked down 45-70 I mean a 35 cal that's really long.

 

[bscott29]

 

[bscott29]

I've posted 3 of these, can you guess them without cheating. Their like splitting hairs.

 

[ugaarguy]

Maybe a 35-70? When I say that I don't mean a necked down 45-70 I mean a 35 cal that's really long.

It's called .38-55 Winchester in black powder, and .375 Winchester for modern smokeless powder. You just have use bullets that are .017 to .0225 inches larger diameter than the .355 to .358 bullets that we nominally cal 35 caliber.

 

[bscott29]

It's called .38-55 Winchester in black powder, and .375 Winchester for modern smokeless powder. You just have use bullets that are .017 to .0225 inches larger diameter than the .355 to .358 bullets that we nominally cal 35 caliber.

38-55 drops like a rock from the ballistics tables I've read. I just wish there was a new round that was flatter shooting than the slug guns we have now.