Ridiculous gun shop owner... the sequel

[STAGE 2]

I don't think Stage2's problem is with the guy being unwilling to deal with NY and CA. Seems to me he's ticked off (and rightfully so) that the guy told him over the phone he would do the transfer, then after Stage2 drove an hour to get there the guy welched on the deal. I'd be pretty ticked off, too. I certainly respect the guy's right to not deal with places or businesses or people who offend his sense of what's right -- but if you tell someone you'll do the deal, then DO THE DEAL, DAMMIT!

Well yes and no. I'll admit that the drive really had me PO'ed but as someone who is from California, I really do have a feeling that gun owners from other states have written us off.

I see a distinction between something like this where it was just private citizens, and something like Barrett refusing to do any more business with a state agency.

The only way that people from CA and NY are gonna get their rights back is at the ballot box. In order to do that there needs to be a substantial amount of gun owning voters. By making life miserable for people in those states all they do is give extra incentive for people to leave, and is exactly what Feinstein and company want.

 

[Cosmoline]

Have you tried to use the 'find a Transfer Agent' feature of Auction Arms? There are lots of folks out there that'll take your $20 in exchange for a legal transfer, you know....

Ditto. You should have asked here first.

 

[nfl1990]

By making life miserable for people in those states all they do is give extra incentive for people to leave, and is exactly what Feinstein and company want

While it is a pain to have to pick where to live based on laws, the upside of pro gunners leaving those states is that some other state becomes a little more red.

 

[Monkeyleg]

Stage 2, please correct me if I'm wrong.

It's my understanding that you had contacted a number of gun stores in the area, and that all of them had told you "no." The reason they said no was that you wanted to do a transfer from a private party in NY to an FFL in TX.

If that's the case, it's not unusual. While it is legal for a private party to ship a gun to an FFL out of state, many receiving dealers will not do so because of liability concerns. If the "private party" in the shipping state shows up as a prohibited person, the ATF isn't going after him, or you. They're going after the first FFL they can find.

It's also my understanding--and correct me if I'm wrong--that the firearm you wanted to transfer was somehow illegal in NY. Again, correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[whipple]

Stage2 China Springs, TX. has a dealer that will do it for you. If you are anywhere near it.
Give him a call.

http://www.carlchandler.com/

Bob

 

[STAGE 2]

Monkeyleg,

Yes I have contacted several dealers to do this purchase, and I do understand the reason why most don't want to. As far as the rifle being illegal, no that is not the case.

 

[Monkeyleg]

Stage 2, thanks for the reply.

Your issue is of particular interest to me, since A & C has signed on for another year on my site. I've tried very hard to make sure that the stores on my site are reputable. That's why I'm constantly asking for members' input about their favorite stores.

If there's any way that I can act as a "go-between" to settle your complaint with Archie, please PM me.

 

[STAGE 2]

Monkeyleg,

I don't mind the questions a bit. As far as him being on your site thats fine too. Again, he's a gunshop owner and free to run his place as he sees fit. As for my "complaint" I don't have one. I already found a shop who understands the law and recognizes that America is in fact comprised of 50 states. And even if that wasn't the case there is nothing that would ever entice me to return there. There's a line in a particular John Wayne movie that starts off, "I won't be wronged, I wont be insulted..." I think you get the picture.

 

[444]

"He then went on to explain that he wouldn't have anything to do with either California or New York. This was his reasoning and I quote, "Those states aren't part of America and they don't honor federal law, so I don't do business with them."


I understand your problem and I would be pissed also after making the drive based on that phone call.

That being said, I don't blame him a bit for his one man boycott. I live right next to California and make every effort to have nothing to do with the place. I am not quite as bad as you describe this guy, but I certainly don't spend a dime in California willingly and haven't been there willingly for many years (my job sometimes requires me to venture into the state a few miles). I have been tempted many times to attend shooting events there. There is or was a Garand match at Camp Pendleton right around now. The CMP is supposed to be there with a lot of rifles you can choose from. But, I am not going to patronize a California hotel to attend the match. California also hosts a lot of really cool IPSC matches. I am not going to enter the state with a gun and not at all if I can help it. I know a lot of Pittsburgh Steelers fans since I am one. A couple Monday nights ago, they all went to San Diego for the Monday night game. Not me. I patronized a Nevada tavern and watched the game.

 

[Monkeyleg]

I do understand, Stage 2. That's why I'm asking.

Until now, I've heard nothing but good comments about A & C.

If any other THR member has had an experience--good or bad--with A & C, I'd really like to hear about it.

I've seen some negative comments made about other shops on my site--shops that were recommended by THR members. When those comments showed up, I emailed them to the owner or manager of the store, and the problem was usually corrected.

I've probably already said too much about my site to be relevant to the thread at hand, but I must say that I've removed stores from my site who THR members have had bad experiences with. Now that Archie has paid to renew, though, that gets a bit dicey.

 

[Waitone]

Just out of curiosity, did you happen to note the brands of guns he carried? IIRC Kimber and Henry are two Noo Yark based gun companies.

 

[ezypikns]

I don't believe I noticed where Stage 2 lives.....

or if he even mentioned it, but if anyone in Texas needs a no fuss, reasonable transfer, call Daniel at the Lewisville Pawn Shop on Mill St. in Lewisville, Texas. He's a real gentleman and has never failed to be of great assistance.

 

[Spiggy]

ouch, I'm hurt at the position this guy has taken...

it's hard enough being an enthusiast living in the P.R. of K... Stoned by the harsh liberals and anti-everything super nazies. But when fellow enthusiasts start spitting in your eye... ugh! We love the sport just as much and dont deserved to be left to die. oh baby, just cant do that to us baby

I should move out, I need to get right out of here

 

[STAGE 2]

Just out of curiosity, did you happen to note the brands of guns he carried? IIRC Kimber and Henry are two Noo Yark based gun companies.

He did have some kimbers, and there were some lever guns but I didn't look close enough to see a maker.


As far as what 444 said, the only people that this guy is hurting are those that support the second amendment.

 

[patm41]

Well after reading all this crap about A&C ill have to add..

I have known Arch for 20 years at his shop and at another place of employment ... Arch is one fine man and a fair business owner..

Keep in mind that the Firearms business is regulated closely
if the person you talked to over the phone said one thing
and the documents that were provided when you actually drove
down didn't look right to the eyes of the counter person , as a Representative
of the owner its his right to refuse service to you..

All of A&C's employees i have dealt with have always been very knowledgeable
and courteous to me..and every one else in the shop..

I don't believe a word the original person who started this thread..
I think you were caught in a shady transfer that you tried to pull and
the person manning the counter caught it.. now your pissed and whining
about it..
If it was my store, and you didn't understand , "sorry but we cant do this"
and you started to argue about it , you would be throwed out the door
by force if necessary...

 

[tonisman]

I heard about this and wanted to wade in. I've been a customer of A&C since 1996 when it opened, and I have yet to find the bell to "ring, and ring, and ring" to get someone to come to the front. I've been in there hundreds of times, so that "bell" must duck under the counter when I come in.
The shop manager is a man who goes by the rules.....if he feels like you are dodging questions or leaving out important info, he won't do the deal. He doesn't care if the shop misses a sale....he just won't do it if it doesn't seem right.

Maybe you brought some "attitude" with you, and maybe you should leave it home next time.

 

[jsalcedo]

Thats weird.

Two brand new one post members in a row accusing the original poster of lying and being a dishonest shady dealer.

Yeah whatever

 

[STAGE 2]

The shop manager is a man who goes by the rules.....if he feels like you are dodging questions or leaving out important info, he won't do the deal. He doesn't care if the shop misses a sale....he just won't do it if it doesn't seem right.

Maybe you brought some "attitude" with you, and maybe you should leave it home next time.

If you like the gun shop thats fine by me, although it seems I'm not the only one to have recieved sub-par service as evidenced by this thread here.

As far as the owner goes, he doesn't go by the rules. The rules state that this transaction was perfectly legal. Of course since its his shop he can make up whatever rules hes wants to, and thats fine with me too. If I think he's a little backwoods, alot ignorant, and doing a disservice to gun owners for the mythical rules that he chooses to live by thats my prerogative as well.

However, "rules" and keeping true to one's word are two completely different things. And where he may qualify for the former, he was completely void of the latter in this case. If he had a problem with the transfer then he should have said so on the phone. There wasn't any new information that was left out of the phone conversation or that was presented once I was in the shop.

As far as "attitude" goes, the only attitude that was there was what was sitting in the back room once I arrived. Being old doesn't make you any more knowledgable or wiser about things than wearing boots and a stetson make you a cowboy. And no matter who you are dealing with.... whether its the reincarnation of John Browning or someone who cant tell the which end of the gun is which... you should always treat them with respect.

Its evident that these two lessons haven't quite dawned on this particular individual yet. And given your tone and "constructive criticism" about my attitude it would appear to me that you both are cut from the same cloth... which of course would explain why you think everythings just dandy down at ol' A&C.

At the end of the day it really doesn't matter. He did what he wanted to and that's fine. Of course I'm free to do what I want to and let others know what happened. Is one lost transfer going to break his bank, nope. Will earning a reputation for poor customer service among the people on this board, their friends, the proprietor of gunshopfinder.com, etc make a difference? Who knows. But I bet if he knew the result of his actions, he would have been a whole lot more polite in turning me down.

 

[Greg L]

Thats weird.

Two brand new one post members in a row accusing the original poster of lying and being a dishonest shady dealer.

Yeah whatever

Yeah, that kind of pegged my BS meter as well.

I have no dog in either side of the fight but two brand new posters with essentially the same story right after each other is a bit much.

 

[STAGE 2]

If it was my store, and you didn't understand , "sorry but we cant do this" and you started to argue about it , you would be throwed out the door by force if necessary...

Well I'm glad we can agree on something.... in that a "sorry" would have been nice, but that didn't happen in this case. As far as being "throwed" or rather thrown out of the shop, I really don't think discussing a prior phone conversation warrants the use of force. But who am I to judge. Apparently A&C caters to a special sort of individual.

 

[STAGE 2]

I have no dog in either side of the fight but two brand new posters with essentially the same story right after each other is a bit much.

Methinks the owner finally saw the thread, and I appreciate the benefit of the doubt from both of you guys. Thanks

 

[stavman]

Methinks the owner finally saw the thread, and I appreciate the benefit of the doubt from both of you guys. Thanks

I agree those post seem shady. Just say I think you where 100% in the right..

 

[patm41]

STAGE 2

maybe you should open your own shop.. that way you could make your own rules ..
Yes I'm new here but just because i wanted to read what you are whining about..
I believe the store owner and manager has the right to refuse service to anyone they choose to.. and from reading the posts again, ill have to agree
with the other new guy

by the way about all of this in a web forum really your way of standing on a soap box and complaining ?? your not going to get much attention except
by the few people who hang out in this forum ...

my advice to you.....

 

[jdkelly]

jsalcedo---Thats weird.

Two brand new one post members in a row accusing the original poster of lying and being a dishonest shady dealer.

Yeah whatever

+1

Yes I'm new here but just because i wanted to read what you are whining about..

Not true, your don't need to be a member to "read" what is posted on this web site.

patm41---your not going to get much attention except
by the few people who hang out in this forum ...

Not true, he got your attention!

I don't know stage 2, but the posts by patm41 and tonisman lead me to believe stage 2.


Respectfully,

jdkelly

 

[Janitor]

by the few people who hang out in this forum ...

Did this person say "few"?

Well - he may be right. While the population of this board is probably only about a couple orders of magnitude larger than A&C's (seemingly whacky) customer base, I'm sure there's only several hundred readers in Texas.

And so far, there have been only just over 2,700 views of this thread.

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