rude range...would you return?

[chaim]

I understand where you are coming from.

There is a local range/gunshop where service is really hit or miss. Some of the employees are some of the best retail employees I've ever seen. Some are complete and total arrogant jerks. After buying my Bersa there a few years back I decided I didn't want to deal with them anymore. One of the guys who is one of their biggest jerks, and who particularly likes to talk to me like I'm a total idiot, is one of the management team (I'm not sure if he's just a manager or one of the partners). So I decided to boycott even though it is only 15 min away and the other indoor pistol ranges are about 45 min away.

Unfortunately, in my case most of my friends who shoot like to shoot there. I can't really hold it against my best friend, and primary shooting buddy, has a 30min drive to get to this range, I can't really ask him to go another 45min to another range. So, I found myself going here more and more to shoot with others and eventually the "boycott" just became rediculous so I do shoot there even when alone, and I'll buy a gun there so long as I get one of their good employees.

So, I'm not sure what my advice is here. I understand the desire to leave due to the bad service, but I also understand forgetting about it due to convenience. I guess I'd probably continue to go there until this becomes more common, then leave and let them know why.

 

[Cosmoline]

I won't be lectured at by some idiot over something I didn't do. I would have told him off and left for good.

 

[gunsmith]

ooh another lake Chabot range nazi story

I was teaching a really cute black gal from Oakland, CA how to shoot and while I never noticed anything she told me after that it seemed as if "they didn't like her being there"
I must say every time I've been there he's yelled at someone (including me but I was rapid firing)..
I really miss Jackson arms even though they have some of those rules that no one likes (no drawing from your pistol unless you are LE)
but once you get to know them they let some things slide if not to many people are around.
I hate no rapid fire rules.
When I took my lady friend to Jackson arms, she loved it.
She went from being scared to having a big smile after shooting a sp101 loaded with .357

 

[Berek]

If it was the first time in 2 years, give 'em another shot. Be sure that you get the RO's name before you shoot. That way, if it does happen again, you know who to report and explain that if something is not done about rude treatment, you're done with that range. If it happens a third time, or the second time is worse, forget 'em. There's other places.

 

[Taurus 66]

I won't be lectured at by some idiot over something I didn't do. I would have told him off and left for good.

Right On! That's what I did with my membership at my local conservation club. Now I will attend it "only" as a guest. No money for them from me, except for the basic visitor cheese bits.

Lately I've been getting offers to shoot on private land from co-workers and this is promising. You should look to friends or co-workers to help you out. I know if I invited someone on my property to shoot, I'd clean up the brass and all other litter they left behind. That's what being a "guest" partly about, and Heck, I wouldn't be charging anyone money either!

 

[Meplat]

There are jerks at every range, even private ones like I go to. I can handle the guys that folks euphemistically refer to as <> (heck - I am one). What I can't handle are range NAZI's.

Range Nazi's are a bane to me, too. Son and I were shooting, following all range rules to the letter. Ours is a rural private range, often no range officer present. Most of the time, we have it to ourselves. One particular day, jerk drives up, Rambo wannabe acting guy. Commences to ordering everyone around. When he got to us, (son and I were standing BEHIND the firing line, rifles breached, laying ON the benches, pointing downrange - we were both six feet from the benches) he turned to my son and said "Don't you touch that weapon until the range is clear!" in a very nasty tone. I very quickly explained to him that "the boy" had a Dad right beside him well versed in range etiquette, and we didn't need his meddling nose. I had set my son up some clay pigeons against the berm at the hundred yard line to bust up with a .22. This ***hole then proceeds to break out his Anshultz target rifle and try to hit the birds. Pissed me off enough to tap my son on the shoulder, have him lock open his action, take his place, and proceed to bust all the birds out from under him. Then looked over at my son, told him it was time to go, as the smell of ???? was getting a little too musty.

Like the time I was filing down the front sights on a single action revolver. The cylinder was out and on the bench in front of me while I filed on the sight. My wife and I were the only people on the plinking range. She went down range just as a guy from the adjoining range walked by. He started yelling Ma'am! MA'AM! You can't go down range while someone is handling a gun. She ignored him. I held the revolver up and showed him no cylinder, even said "look, no cylinder".

More yelling: Ma'am! MA'AM! You can't go down range while someone is handling a gun. I told him to mind his own freaking business and take his inability to judge the circumstances and shove them up where the sun don't shine.

Some people take the rules just too darned seriously. Circumstances vary. Humans can judge when they do. Robots can't. :banghead:

THIS I don't consider range Nazism, however. Too many times I have walked downrange after the "Clear" has been yelled, checked my target, and seen some idiot looking through a scope at me. Stunts like this nearly got one of my favorite RO's killed once. Young feller let a .270 round go on target 4 while RO was stapling a target on no. 6. He was "looking through his scope to check his target" and was totally humiliated by his stupidity...then he had to face the range owner. A BAD day for him.

Yes, I know, your action was open, and I'm sure you would have never done anything to endanger anyone. Not everyone can be counted on to do things properly, though, and some rules should NEVER be broken. Handling a firearm while someone is downrange is one of these rules.

I firmly believe that NO FIREARM should be touched while anyone is downrange. That way, there is no guessing if you are using good judgement. You KNOW you are. If nothing else, it gives others peace of mind and allows them to enjoy the full relaxation of a day at the range.

 

[Meplat]

so we get our ammo and such and go to the range. RO asks us if we've been here, etc. we say yes and then he says

"im a stickler for you guys with autos to pick up your own shells make sure you do."

That I could tolerate if it were done in the proper tone. Then again, I've been to ranges where they didn't WANT you to pick up your brass, cause they rounded it up and sold it.

so we leave and my dad makes a comment to me about for what they charge they should sweep up their own shells....after we swept our shells up. and the RO comes over to us as we go out the door saying "i told you gentlemen to sweep your shells, im being nice about it but next time i wont"

we were flabergasted...told him we cleaned up, and he makes the comment "make sure it doesnt happen again"

It is generally at this point that I ask the kind person to accompany me to his or her supervisor, where we can get this whole thing straightened out to everyone's satisfaction. Hmmm...never bothers the boy, but my wife and daughter HATE going with me anywhere. Wrong me, and I'll be glad to point it out. Scenes don't bother me too much.

would you guys return? after being treated like dirt im thinking we wont go back...even though its close and convient and the 2nd closest range is about 20 minutes further....

Depends on how things went after the intial and immediate conversation between the joker in question, his boss, and myself went. I never leave until I have the air clear. That way, I know whether to return or not. If done in a rational manner, nine times out of ten you're going to be treated decently next time....the tenth time it's time to pull stakes. AND the shooting community is a close one...word gets around fast. Most range owners know this. They, like any other business owner, are there to make a living. Can't do that if they let some jerk run their customers off.

 

[Tequila_Sauer]

I absolutely hate one of the local outdoor ranges around here. I was there two weekends ago and that was it, I'm sick of that place.

I hear them referring to customers in offensive ways (using expletives) and they're just all around rude. Plus, their hot rounds are insanely long, my target is almost non-existant after it's over.

 

[Kramer Krazy]

Then you can drive that extra 40 minutes (20 each way) every time from now on...unless maybe the poster suggesting this will drive you...

Sheesh, gotta wonder sometimes...

Wow...I guess I may as well keep my day job. Appearantly, my jokes are pretty bad. ....BTW, I drive over an hour, one-way, to my indoor range...and we've gone 4 times in a week, before. If the one in Columbia, SC was five minutes from the house, I'd still probably drive the hour....Shooter's Choice in Columbia has some people with similar attitudes to the one the original poster was talking about. The guys at Rex's in Hendersonville, NC are some of the best people you could ever ask to deal with. I'd make it a point to spend my money at the place that didn't have the employees with attitude.

 

[Walt Rauch]

"I firmly believe that NO FIREARM should be touched while anyone is downrange. That way, there is no guessing if you are using good judgment. You KNOW you are. If nothing else, it gives others peace of mind and allows them to enjoy the full relaxation of a day at the range."

Amen!!

There are two kinds of shooters regarding negligent discharges, those who have had one and those that lie about it.

 

[HankB]

What I can't handle are range NAZI's

Ditto. I used to be a member of a large gun club up in the Minneapolis/St. Paul area, where the club treasurer, a guy appropriately named "Dick," thought of the club as his own personal fiefdom.

One day my buddy and I were the only ones on the range, and he comes down and starts haranguing us about some imagined violation of the rules. While he was going on and on, I noticed that, contrary to club rules, he wasn't wearing his own badge.

When he momemtarily stopped to catch is breath, I asked "Who ARE you?"

He answered, "You know who I am, I'm Dick *****, the club treasurer!!!"

I replied, "No, you can't be, since all the club officers KNOW that the RULES are you WEAR YOUR CLUB ID while on the range. If you don't leave peacefully right now, I'll have to call the sheriff's office and have you removed."

(BTW, the guy was later implicated in some questionable dealings involving club funds, and left office under a cloud . . . which was letting him off easy, IMHO.)

I've been to ranges where they didn't WANT you to pick up your brass, cause they rounded it up and sold it.

Or reloaded it themselves. I used to "gift" them with Berdan-primed cases whenever possible.

 

[deadin]

One of the best set-ups I have seen on a range is the one I used to shoot at (before I moved). There was a Red line painted on the floor about 3 ft. behind the firing line and a cease-fire bell that rang continuously when the line was "made safe". The strictly enforced rule were : when the bell was on, all firearms were to be on the bench with slides back, bolts back, actions open, magazines out and no one ahead of the red line. And no handling of any uncased firearms behind the line. As this was a membership club, we policed ourselves pretty well. On weekends when the range was open to the public, there was always a NRA qualified Rangemaster who was not afraid to eject anyone not following the rules.

Dean

 

[V4Vendetta]

What part of "no handling" is hard to understand? The RO was doing his job!.

So were the common Nazi soldiers. So were the soldiers at Abu Graib. People have a duty to disobey immoral rules just as every LEO has a duty to disobey immoral orders. I went to my library recently to rent some movies & books. I'm 17. I will be 18 in 7 days. You have to be 18 to rent movies even if the movie is not rated R! I asked the librarian why I couldn't rent movies even though I had a drivers permit, was just 7 days away from being 18 & a youth responsible enough to have a job. She said that it was just a policy. I wasn't mad at her. She was just a messenger. People need to start using their own judgement. Think for themselves.

 

[Molon Labe]

At our range, the Four Safety Rules are strictly enforced. Other than that, everything is allowed (rapid fire, full auto, .50 BMG, etc.)

The range is our backyard.

 

[V4Vendetta]

I can't say what to do about your range problem. My backyard is my range. Saddens me to hear about people who can't have that luxury. My advice is to give them a second chance. If they are still jerks, sell your house, move to the country, buy a house there, shoot till you are out of ammo.

 

[Werewolf]

What part of "no handling" is hard to understand? The RO was doing his job!.

He wasn't an RO just some range NAZI strolling by and practicing ZERO TOLERANCE (which is a foolish policy no matter what it is applied to).

Did you miss the part about no cylinder in the gun? :banghead:

Without a cylinder it WON'T FIRE! Hell it's not even really a gun without a cylinder - just a hunk of metal.

What part of common sense don't you understand? If there'd been other shooters there for their peace of mind I would have just picked up the revolver and walked back to my car with it. But it was just me and my wife - no one else using the range. She, having the ability to use her brain and judge circumstances, understood the difference between a hunk of metal and a firearm. It seems some here don't.

I guess you're one of those guys that never, ever cleans his guns. After all according to Rule 1 all guns are to be treated as if they are loaded all the time. Can't clean a loaded gun can ya? Kinda rediculous - huh?

NOW DO YOU GET IT?

 

[FPrice]

Werewolf,

There are jerks at every range, even private ones like I go to. I can handle the guys that folks euphemistically refer to as <> (heck - I am one). What I can't handle are range NAZI's.

Like the time I was filing down the front sights on a single action revolver. The cylinder was out and on the bench in front of me while I filed on the sight. My wife and I were the only people on the plinking range. She went down range just as a guy from the adjoining range walked by. He started yelling Ma'am! MA'AM! You can't go down range while someone is handling a gun. She ignored him. I held the revolver up and showed him no cylinder, even said "look, no cylinder".

More yelling: Ma'am! MA'AM! You can't go down range while someone is handling a gun. I told him to mind his own freaking business and take his inability to judge the circumstances and shove them up where the sun don't shine.

Some people take the rules just too darned seriously. Circumstances vary. Humans can judge when they do. Robots can't.

I think that the problem is that you don't get it.

Rules are there for a reason.

In the situation you mention, yes, your firearm was incapable of being fired. And maybe it was just your wife downrange. However, if you do this often enough (ignore the rules because you know better) then maybe someday you will ignore the rules in front of someone who doesn't quite know as much as you obviously do and they just might decide to follow your example only something is going to go wrong and there is going to be a tragic accident. Or you just might have that accident yourself.

If you can't accept that then you have no business ever on a range with other people. Every rule you break because you know better brings you just that much closer to a preventable accident.

 

[Werewolf]

Rules are there for a reason.

Hmmm...

From all the posts referring to my post about range nazis it seems that the prevailing attitude is that they (the rules that is) are there to protect the stupid from themselves but then there are lots of stupid people in the world that need protecting I suppose. What you guys are exhibiting here is ZERO TOLERANCE, an attitude extant in today's society (and it seems by some on THR - who've probably decried it in other threads). ZERO TOLERANCE, no matter what it is applied to, is nothing more than a construct created to remove responsibility from those tasked with making judgements and attach it to a RULE. But then today's society is all about removing responsibility from individuals isn't it?

Sorry guys but I didn't do anything wrong. No one was placed in danger - ever - not for one microsecond. It is amazing (and regretable) to me that some are so ate up with rules that they forget that no rule can ever hope to cover every conceivable situation.

 

[AmYisraelChai]

Hmmm...

From all the posts referring to my post about range nazis it seems that the prevailing attitude is that they (the rules that is) are there to protect the stupid from themselves but then there are lots of stupid people in the world that need protecting I suppose. What you guys are exhibiting here is ZERO TOLERANCE, an attitude extant in today's society (and it seems by some on THR - who've probably decried it in other threads). ZERO TOLERANCE, no matter what it is applied to, is nothing more than a construct created to remove responsibility from those tasked with making judgements and attach it to a RULE. But then today's society is all about removing responsibility from individuals isn't it?

Sorry guys but I didn't do anything wrong. No one was placed in danger - ever - not for one microsecond. It is amazing (and regretable) to me that some are so ate up with rules that they forget that no rule can ever hope to cover every conceivable situation.

On a firing range you can and should apply Zero Tolerance. The stakes are to high. They are far higher than someones self perceived inconvenience.

There are two ends of the spectrum on a civilian firing line, Green Horns and Green Berets. Since I cant tell the difference, and we are all strangers or light aquantences that are using deadly weapons, the rules must be set for the lowest common denominator. The Green Berets might not cause the accident, but they sure can die from one. And my range is not worth losing over your desire to be the exception or right.

 

[ArmedBear]

I'd give it one more chance... maybe talk to the owner. Then again I left my local range after they started implementing ridiculous rules like, "you have to bring a gun if you want to rent one of ours".

I'm not sure what other rules they implemented, but that rule has a reason. The range down the street from my house had someone come in, rent a gun, then shoot himself in the head with it. That incident has led many ranges to implement rental rules like that, or "rentals only for groups of 2 or more" or similar.

I'm not sure whether the suicidal man was too cheap to buy a gun, or if he just didn't want to wait the 10 days required here in CA.

Personally, rapid-fire rules are what get me, especially for pistol ranges. If I didn't want to practice reacquiring the target quickly, I could just dry-fire at home and get 99% of the benefit of slow-fire practice, for free.

 

[Sinsaba]

When I was in the Navy ...

Yes a quick "Sea Story"

I was assigned to a jet squadron (VAQ33) fresh out of "A" school. I was very nervous walking my first watch in the hanger. After all, I'd heard of all of the death stories of what could happen if you got behind a jet with the egine going. But, I had my duty to perform so I walked the hanger even though it meant walking behind these deadly jet engines. It didn't matter that I was the only one in the hanger, it didn't matter that they weren't going; what if something happened, an accident, and one started.

Imagine how I felt the next day when I saw one of these fighters started. First they have to bring out equipment to give them electricity. Then they have to bring out equipment to pump in compressed air. Finally, there has to be someone in the cockpit to flip all of the switches.

Yes, all of the stories I had heard about going behind a running jet engine were true. Yes, safety procedures were developed for that. However, on watch, in the hanger, other procedures applied. Because It was IMPOSSIBLE for the jets to start in a manner to make it dangerous. Not because someone THOUGHT it was but because it truly was IMPOSSIBLE.

 

[Werewolf]

the rules must be set for the lowest common denominator

And there it is people...
The lowest common denominator.

That is so wrong on so many levels - the most insulting of which is that it assumes everyone is on that lowest level and must be treated accordingly.

When did it become the right thing to pander to the stupid and incompetent among us; to design our society around those who can't instead of those who can? :banghead:

 

[Thefabulousfink]

Heck No, I wouldn't continue doing business there.

I Had a similar encounter at the only outdoor range within 45min. It started before we had even arrived, the hill leading to the range has a 5mph limit, but it also runs along side the trap range so the shooters there have to stop shooting until the car has passed. My buddy was driving, and he sped up a little so that the trap shooters could get back to shooting. When we reached the bottom of the hill this old guy comes out of the hut and says, "you want to go back up that road and try it again at the right speed?" We were going 10, mabey 15 mph, so my friend asks, "excuse me?" and the old guy says, "you heard me, come down the road at the right speed or you can't shoot here." At that point my friend turned his truck around and peeled out up the hill.

Not wanting to completely write off the only good outdoor range close by, I went back there another time for some practice with my .22 pistol. While shooting, RO (different guy than before) comes over and says, "if you don't start tacking more time between shots, I'll kick you off this range." Nevermind the fact that all my shots were hitting the target, and that Rapid Fire is a stage in compitition shooting.

I understand the need to enforce safety on a range, but they are not Drill Instructers, and we were not doing anything reckless or dangerous. All it would have taken was a gentle "hey, could you fire a little slower, we don't want any stray rounds to get away from you?" Me and my friends have decided that we are not going to pay good money to shoot at a range run by old codgers with PBS (pissy bitch syndrom), even if it means we have to drive 45 min to get to the next range.

 

[c_yeager]

He wasn't an RO just some range NAZI strolling by and practicing ZERO TOLERANCE (which is a foolish policy no matter what it is applied to).

Did you miss the part about no cylinder in the gun? :banghead:

Without a cylinder it WON'T FIRE! Hell it's not even really a gun without a cylinder - just a hunk of metal.

What part of common sense don't you understand? If there'd been other shooters there for their peace of mind I would have just picked up the revolver and walked back to my car with it. But it was just me and my wife - no one else using the range. She, having the ability to use her brain and judge circumstances, understood the difference between a hunk of metal and a firearm. It seems some here don't.

I guess you're one of those guys that never, ever cleans his guns. After all according to Rule 1 all guns are to be treated as if they are loaded all the time. Can't clean a loaded gun can ya? Kinda rediculous - huh?

NOW DO YOU GET IT?

You know, an empty gun is no real threat to anyone either. Tell ya what though, if I'm ever on the same range how about you actually follow the rules that you agreed to and try not to handle firearms while I am down range, regardless of how "safe" your particular gun is. If you cant follow the rules at a private range maybe you should find your way onto some public land so that noone else will be responsible for your behavior.

here is the big thing that you dont seem to grasp. If YOU want to look down the barrel of a gun while your cleaning it, it is YOUR head thats in a bad place. You start screwing around with your piece on a private range and you are placing everyone down range in that position without their consent, plus you are making the range owners liable for YOUR irresponsible behavior. Here is a handy rule of thumb for you to go by; It is OK to risk your own neck, but it is NOT OK to risk someone elses. Here I thought that was common sense.

And there it is people...
The lowest common denominator.

That is so wrong on so many levels - the most insulting of which is that it assumes everyone is on that lowest level and must be treated accordingly.

When did it become the right thing to pander to the stupid and incompetent among us; to design our society around those who can't instead of those who can? :banghead:

Yes, yes, only YOU are proffessional enough to handle a firearm when people are downrange, congratularions.

 

[Thefabulousfink]

Also, on the topic of Zero Tolerance, I am a firm believer in Darwin. Novices should be well taught in the correct way to do things, then if they don't learn the lesson, then they pay the price. Same thing if a kid shoots himself or a friend w/ his dad's gun. The parent should have learned to lock up his guns and taught his kids not to play with them now he has a dead son. We don't need more laws to tell people what they should allready know. We have a law, it's the law of reality. If you are fooling around on a range and you shoot someone you will be punnished. I would rather be shot by some fool than live in a world that treats me like a babe in swaddling(sp?) clothes.

Call it crass, call it cold-hearted, that is my belief.