Range incident (Did I handle it correctly??)

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If those "kids" or anyone at a public range, points a gun at you (not knowing if it was intentional or deliberate or accidental) do you have a right to point back for self defense?
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This is a question with at least 50 different answers, there being 50 different states. Plus possibly county and city law that may come into play.
 
Stories like this make me glad that the range I use is rather draconian on safety procedures. Cease fires, everyone unload, open their actions and step behind the line, everyone changes targets at the same time, nobody touches a gun. Several range officers patrolling the line at all times...

You should have gone to the range officer immediately. That kind of behavior is UNACCEPTABLE.
 
Thanks for the support guys, JWarren just noticed in your post that you reffered to someone named Harrison. Funny coincidence, that happens to be my first name haha.
 
that you reffered to someone named Harrison
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Hiya NYenthusiast,

Yep... that's my 7 year old nephew. I assure you that you guys share a lot more than a name. He's rapidly becoming an enthusiast as well.

I'd say he's in good company :)


-- John
 
The degree of judgement and patience that you are showing at 19 years of age speaks very very well of both you and of your character. Just keep doing what you are now and you know what? You are going to be a fine example to many many people in your lifetime. congratulations to you.
 
The example the father gave you completely makes the kids actions understandable. Excusable, no, understandable, absolutely.

jeepmor
 
JWarren said:
Sometimes I wish that stupidity hurt-- kinda like a headache. That way, those that didn't know they were stupid would have a way of knowing. And those that were REALLY stupid wouldn't come out into society.
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Nice one. :p
 
I am soooooo glad that:

1. I use a membership-only range (nothing fancy, just a big pit, but not open to the non-paying public).

and

2. The vast majority of the time, I and my family members/guests are the ONLY ones at the range.
 
I have a hard time with a moron with a weapon. I don't even like a disassembled firearm pointed towards me. You handled it alot better than I would have. That's why I never use a range. There are even a few friends that I will never go shooting with again. If someone didn't know the rules to baseball they wouldn't let him on the field and there that person couldn't kill someone. Maybe your range master should keep both eyes open so he doesn't miss the next fowl ball.:what:
 
The OP was WAY more patient than I. I am with 357-8-times. I would have said something like " Hey, even if you know it's unloaded, don't point it at anything you don't want to destroy." Then regardless of the response, packed up and left telling the rangemaster on the way out what's going on and why I'm leaving. And I would leave regardless of his response. The only thing his response would determine is whether I come back on another day.

I have found that people don't get the way they are, good or bad, overnight and don't change easily. Also that things have a way of escalating all to h*** and gone quickly when you try. The fact that these actions appeared intentional by the way the kids were acting would have led me to predict the adult's reaction before he even spoke.

When a muzzle covers me or my possessions either intentionally or accidentally the day is already ruined. I have no problem with attempting to educate after a violation. My leaving is the unspoken communication that I am not going to tolerate it. That includes the person I'm with, although that has never happened when I was around. That includes that person finding his way home on his own if I'm driving.

If that offends, tough. I had a good childhood friend die from an ND. Pulled his "unloaded" rifle equipped with one of those cute little gatling gun cranks out of the car barrel first and the crank hooked the seat belt. The good part was he hit the medulla so it was quick. Let's see, that was all 4 rules being violated simultaneously and unintentionally. I was an EMT and on the responding unit. Had to tell his wife. SUCKS. Ain't playing that game again. Nothing's worth that.
 
You probably had a head full of clever ideas and good one-liners, and you still managed to resist the temptation and be more mature than he. Good on you, you're a credit to the community.
 
Where the heck was the range master??!!?? The red hats should have been all over these bozos with strong warnings after incident one, and immediate ejection after #2.
 
ZeSpectre: I also often set up a camcorder on a tripod and let it run while I'm shooting. It's great for observing my own technique and it's amazing how many people stop screwing around when they realize they are on camera.
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That, good Sir, is an outstanding idea and one I plan to copy on my future range excursions. If anything goes pear shaped there will be no question of who did what if the cops have to get involved.
 
Just found out that in the state of Texas, writing down a LP# and then approaching another person/person's vehicle can be considered an act of aggression and the individual doing this can be arrested for "terroristic behavior." So, be careful. Our society is becoming quite paranoid and that "terroristic behavoir" charge cuts quite a wide swath in the hands of an aggressive policeman or prosecutor.
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This is a perfect example of why we have already lost the United States of America to the terrorists, and they haven't had to fire a shot.

I can see, perhaps, a small degree of logic in making it illegal to write down someone's license plate number for purpose of aggression. But ... "terroristic" behavior? Gimme a break. That's like all the cases I've been reading about recently where ONE of TWO people involved in verbal disputes gets arrested and charged with "terroristic" threatening. Not just threatening, which has always been against the law, but now that there's a law that uses the word "terroristic," prosecutors seem to be falling all over themselves to use it ... probably because it carries a stiffer penalty than plain old, ordinary, everyday threatening.

It seems to me that if I'm just telling one doofus I'm going to punch his lights out if'n he doesn't keep his hands off my woman, that's nothing more than garden variety threatening. It ain't "terroristic" unless I'm holding an entire city hostage, telling them if they don't do what I want I'll poison the reservoir or blow up city hall or something.

Seems to me that a charge of "terroristic behavior" should at least involve some sort of terroristic behavior. But ... what do I know?
 
Good job. I'm only 22, and a regular weekend fixture at the range, so I see this stuff sometimes as well, and I also know how it is to not be taken seriously because of your age. at the range I currently go to, it is largely unattended, self-policed, and off the beaten path, so I rarely have problems there. Most of them deal with plain ignorance (one of my friends was fiddling with a gun while someone was downrange, so I explained that range safety/etiquette dictates you don't handle anything while someone is downrange.) All the idiots seem to go to the other range, hence why i don't go there anymore.
I also agree with trying to cut them some slack. Everyone makes mistakes, and everyone needed to be taught these skills and rules at some point. Very rarely, even I will sweep someone. I get really embarrassed when I realize it.
Over all, good job. happy shooting.
 
In NY pointing a weapon at someone (loaded or not) is legally equivalent to shooting at someone.

Given the attitude I would have called the police. If they had at least acted contrite, apologized and rectified their actions, well, this is how ignorance is cured. But, with the attitude they displayed, they obviously don't want ignorance to be cured. Shooting them would probably end up with me in jail (though tell me that the average non-gun owning reasonable person wouldn't feel in fear for their life / health with these actions) on account of their child status, leaving the police the only option.

If you're in the Syracuse / Utica area (I'm assuming from your handle you are in NY somewhere) send me a PM and we can meet at my club sometime.

Glad you weren't hurt.
 
Thanks for the invite, but, I actually reside down on Long Island. I appreciate the support guy's. It occured to me that I hadnt really shared the incident with very many people and I wanted to get a reaction from the community.
 
Do as you did...call them on their BS'ing around, get them to stop, keep everyone safe, then go get the Range Officer. I would have called him up earlier. If you've got an range officer, he should have noticed what the heck was going on.
 
What I do not get is people being offended by having bad behavior corrected. I once did something very stupid and impolite at a range (It is embarassing and it happened a long time ago. So I will refrain from revealling my former stupidity.). Another shooter had some choice words to say to me (None of them were foul words, by the way.). Right away, I knew I deserved those words. Honestly, I was glad he straightened me out with as much courtesy as he did. That mistake has never been repeated again.
 
My phillosophy has always been that everyone makes mistakes. People are not perfect, and deserve a chance to correct themselves. It was the arrogance and just refusal to head our advice repeadetly that caused me to become upset.
 
One you handled it well except for the first thing I would have done after having to tell the kid to not point a gun at me would have been get the range officer/master. I would have also told his gaurdian that he was responsible for these kids he had there and let him know to watch them closer. People who are didots don't like to hear that kind of stuff so be forwarned, that kind if responsibility might result in a fight at the range, bt even that is better than being shot. I think personally I'd have a hard time not punching a guy who pointed a firearm at me for any reason. you handled it very well.
 
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