Saiga .308 16" - Ak reliability and M1A Accuracy at .22LR prices.

[1stmarine]

Cryogaijin,
I didn't think about that hand-guard. Pretty nice. I like the slim profile.
Do you think that this could hold a zero with a pistol scope?
I always like to see something bolted at the base or barrel or something.
What do you think?

Cheers.
E.

 

[Cryogaijin]

I have that foregrip on my .308, and it is better molded, IMO, than most of the rail kits out there. One issue, however, is that the rails start halfway up it, which results in an excessive distance between the pistol grip and any vertical grip you attach to it. (I'll post pictures eventually) Still, it feels better to use as a normal fore grip than most rails do, and it isn't as bulky.

I don't have the top half however.

 

[mac66]

Hey Saiga 308 fans...

A friend wants to use his 308 to shoot an Appleseed. (www.appleseedinfo.org) He will need 400-500 rounds for the weekend.

I bought cases of ammo cheap back in the day so I haven't had to buy ammo for a long time and am not giving up my stash.

A quick search found S&B at sportsman's guide for $179/500 with ammo can, not counting shipping. Ammoman has wolf for about $200/500 shipped and Dynamite/Noble for $259/500 shipped.

Anybody know of any good deals on 308 right now?

 

[1stmarine]

Mac66,
For practice with GI loads the best I have seen is around $420 for five South African/UK/Pakistani or German(DAG) battle-packs of 200/ea that would make 1K rounds. Berdan 80's or 90's production normally good Nato surplus but no good for reloading.
Others for a bit more $480-$520 range: PMC bronce, Priv, Some lake city surplus, x1 fired bulk boxes, normally burn very clean and reusable brass these ones.
I stock some Russians puffins for plinkin but I do not recommend those for any serious practice and the NATO surplus is brass and is so much better in terms of reliability and consistency.

IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER: Stay away from anyone selling the "tarnished" loose packs. I bough 2K rounds from http://militarygunsupply.com and it was not just tarnished but totally corroded all the way and paid 820 + shipping. I could clean some and some had to toss away.
I sent them a note but never heard back from them.
Will never buy from them again.

Prices of ammo are out of control but with the oil where it is, I guess everything is up, specially the heavy stuff (transportation costs).

Hey, good project you posted there. Can we donate some ammo even if it is a few boxes?
I believe Marksmanship Clinic should be mandatory for every american that can hold a firearm.

Cheers,
E.

 

[mac66]

1stMarine,

Thanks for the info, been along time since I had to buy 308 ammo.

Yes, Appleseed is a very good program and I agree with you about marksmanship training. The cool thing about Appleseed is that it is not only about marksmanship (the shooting instruction is top notch) but it is also about how marksmanship was important in the birth of our country. It is to get people to come and hear the story of the birth of the US and to appreciate the gift of freedom our forefathers gave us.

I've been shooting for 40+ years and not only did I have a lot of fun at Appleseed, I learned how to shoot better as well.

The best thing anyone can do to support Appleseed is go to one of their programs (they are all over the country) earn the rifleman patch and then share with others. Or seek out your state Appleseed guys/gals and offer to help them.

 

[1stmarine]

Thanks for the info. We mentor some of the kids in the leagues here locally. Some have joined the military and ended up being top DMs and snipers.
I will look to see if they have a local chapter here.

This looked to me like a good deal. I shot this in the service overseas and
it is very accurate with all military systems. No re-loadable though.
http://www.surplusammo.com/products...an-MEN-%2d-1000-Rounds-in-5-Battle-Packs.html

These are good for practice too. Once fired but still reloadable...
http://www.surplusammo.com/products/.308-Win.-150-Grain-FMJ-BVAC-%2d--500-Rounds,-Bulk.html

Cheers,
E.

 

[jlott00]

id like to know more about this one? i think this is more along the lines of what im going to do (ordered the 308 today)

 

[1stmarine]

Good choice. Just remember this brake was an 'experiment' so if you choose a brake system the best way to go is like the other one I posted and to remove the front post, thread the barrel and then slide the post back if you want or have it cut in a very specific way. AK-47 aftermarket clamp-on posts will not work due to the heavier/wider barrel of the .308win.
Some aftermarket breaks that do not need any modifications are very expensive and do not work well.
Contact Mike Peak at http://Peaktactical.com and he might be able to help you. I have my breaks custom made all beautiful and normally a good deal.
Cheers.
E.

 

[csspecs]

I like the all metal, all wood look myself.

I make the steel magazines for the Siaga .308 and the Vepr .308 so I have a pretty good supply (which you can check out by typing csspecs into most search engines)

 

[1stmarine]

Nice magazines. I have 17 .308 mags already so I am served for now. I Am starting to see a nice promag for a more civilized price.

 

[1stmarine]

I had a surefire magazine for the saiga .308 split in the middle of the lips. Never had this happened before. Never dropped or anything.
Anyone with the same experience?

 

[csspecs]

.308winner on the saiga-12 forum had two go down like that.

Post #28

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/46214-saiga-308-magazines/

 

[Cryogaijin]

Just back from the range, put another 300 through mine.

I recently bought a cheapo 4x32 short scope from Amazon, and I wanted to see if it would hold a zero on my saiga. (this one NCstar 4x32 rubberized scope ) Held a zero just fine, sighted in just fine. Sufficiently clear image. My biggest complaint is one of the most common: I wish the eye-relief was a bit longer.

Offhand I'm capable of a Minute of Popcan at 100 yards, with german milsurp, which is good enough for me.

So this batch of 300 makes about 1200 rounds through the bugger. I have not had one single misfire, stovepipe, misfeed, or any other error. It's worked perfectly since I bought it, survived being my first conversion, and is still flawless.

I also went out with my S12 today. . . the S308 is more fun, largely due to less recoil.

 

[M1key]

Currently testing Hornady Steel Match 155...worked well for 4 shots at 100yds.

Not sure what happened on the flyer.

M

 

[1stmarine]

Cryogaijin,
Yeah! that is the norm, no failures. is hard to believe we can go through cans of ammo w/o even one. So now that you live in big bear country how do you feel about that saiga with 10 or 20 rounds of 168gr barnes TSX?
I would trade with any lever any day. ....nothing wrong with the levers, I love my 45/70 marlin but I mean in terms of reliability concerns.



M1key,
Ohh that flyer? too much coffe?

Great shooting!!!

I have been thinking converting another one with the ammo smith wood furniture. Anyone had experience with it int he 308s?

Cheers,
E.

 

[Cryogaijin]

I know that several people over on the s12 forums have done full saiganov conversions of the 308.

 

[1stmarine]

Saiganov? lol! that is a new term I never heard.
Actually I was thinking to acquire a new with the long barrel to do that. I believe the dragunov round is great but I am just a huge fun of the .308 win. Even several engineers at the Izmash plant have recognized and attributed that part of the accuracy success of the .308 win version is thanks to the NATO round itself.

I think that in the cold war everyone in each side always wanted to have what the guy on the other side had ....we wanted their optics, their AKs, they wanted our cigarettes and porno magazines and so forth... So this way we ended up today with AKs shooting .223 rem and 308 win. AR's shooting 7.62x39, 5.45, makarovs, etc.. Burger king is expanding in Russia, we bought all the surplus from every single junk yard in Romania, etc...
The works!

 

[WardenWolf]

Sons of Guns just did a show tonight where they took an original sporter Saiga .308, converted it, and put a heavy target barrel on it. They turned it into a true sniper rifle and were having rounds touching at 100 yards.

 

[6x6pinz]

The AK platform is a little harder to accessorize than an AR15 but it is still not that difficult now. In the early years of the conversions it was a lot harder. Now with all the different companies making aftermarket parts it is becoming very easy.
Here is my saiga 308 with a simple conversion and my saiga 20ga which was a bit more difficult as I had to adapt saiga 12ga items to get what I wanted.

 

[my762buzz]

The quality of the Russian superior from steel is far any Chinese steel. I can tell your from looking at my dies after I drill or mill in one. Also the building methods from Hismazat plant have been superior in every aspect since inception to today. They are the fathers of the AK and invented these systems so this plant in Russia is where I go. The Saigas are really the 'sporterized/civilized' version of their AKs but in reality they are the same AK receiver, trunions and barrels that mount and give to their military. Saigas are all chrome lined, cold hammer forged, etc...
Since AKs are russians I go to them. Izmasah is not an old russian shop that make classic AKs. they have state of the art facilities and some of the best firearms engineers in Russia that always show quality and innovation.

It took me a long time to come to this same conclusion even after hearing several trusted gunsmiths tell me about the softer or improperly heat treated steel in some of the Chinese rifles like MAK90 bolts or M14 clone bolts.
I destroyed several Home Depot brands chinese steel drill bits trying to drill through Russian steel on my Saigas. I also been way disappointed with Chinese steel in common tools like wrenches, hammers, and so on.
It's not like they can't use better steel, but I suppose they do so to cut corners so as to lower the wear and tear on their manufacturing plant tooling that produces the products.

 

[1stmarine]

Well I read an actual metallurgical study published by Cornell university about the low grade quality steel used in Chinese manufacturing. It included chemical compositions and how steel stock was used and included small arms manufacturers. I will try to find it and scan it but in any case this is all very well documented by gun enthusiast and industry experts all over.
If you want good bits try the ACE stores they carry lots of good stuff and a lot of US made tooling.
If you say quality AK a few plants pop into mind, Izmash, Molot in Rusia and Zastaba in Yugoslavia. For me that's it, but hey, that's me. Even in a simple AK there is a certain degree if refinement and quality and this can be appreciated by some.
It has nothing to do with the looks. But just see how the ribets are perfectly stamped and simetrical, the cold-hammer forged barrels, the chromed finishing is awesome, I mean, all those simple things that are made by the very same procedures used to meet mil-spec Russian standards.

 

[1stmarine]

The second saiga arrived to zero failures of any kind after 2,500 rounds. I am done with all my oldest surplus cans and even all the rounds were all good. Amazing.
I love other .308s I have but if one can live with a bit of the concussion like any 16" .308 then the portability, durability, simplicity and surprising accuracy of this AK puts this on top with the best.
This barks loud and bites really hard and good for almost any practical use you want. It is not smoke and mirrors this one. Any operators out there take a close look at the data on this one. We are going to start calling it a "piston operated pump gun" if we continue with the 100% reliability reports.
I have to take more pictures and post them here. I am looking at some wood furniture for a more classic conversion of the next .308.

 

[Cryogaijin]

I am also thinking of getting another 16" and doing a wood conversion.

What I want is to find this wood furniture: http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?201745-Saiga-Conversion&

 

[mac66]

Hi all,

Just spent the weekend shooting my factory stock 16" 308. Cloverleaf holes at 25 meters. 6" groups at 100 meters with the stock iron sights. I've come to the conclusion that the trigger really sucks and so do the sights. I would like to keep it in sporter configuration but realize that isn't going to happen as I can't stand the long, long spongy trigger. So I am going to convert it.

The question is, who makes the lowest scope mount? I hate high scopes since I can't get a good cheek weld so am looking for as a low mount and low rings as I can get. I realize I sill still have to build up the cheek weld a bit anyway.

BTW, I dug out all the old cruddy, crappy ammo I could find and shot it through my 308 just to get rid of it. Not one failure.

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

The question is, who makes the lowest scope mount? I hate high scopes since I can't get a good cheek weld so am looking for as a low mount and low rings as I can get. I realize I sill still have to build up the cheek weld a bit anyway.

Probably an ultimak with a scout type scope. There's also the Texas Weapons Systems dogleg replacement dust cover/mount but I'm always leery of dust cover mounts being able to maintain zero even if they claim otherwise.
AK type rifles are usually more of a "chin-weld" unfortunately.