No question twofifty, before a guy tryed to mug me, I looked at the idea of carrying a gun for self-defense as just plain crazy, it took almost getting killed to wake me up to the "obviousness of the truth". "A conservative is liberal who was mugged"
Saw my first open carry yesterday
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OC is like abortion? Oh really? Why don't you try this argument out for size?
"People who open carry are like black people that try to scare the public by refusing to wear white paint on their faces"
This is the type of arguments into which anti-OCers devolve. The arguments against OC are nothing more than ill-informed bigotry.
Negative reactions to the sight of people carrying openly may be rightly characterized as "uninformed bigotry", but I'm sure there is a more descriptive term (GEM, any suggestions from the world of psychology?).
However, there are a number of well-reasoned, objective arguments against OC for some circumstances, just as there are good arguments for it for others.
When you speak about OC versus CC in those terms Kleanbore, you come across as even handed and fair, But when anti-gun and anti-CC people devolve to demeaning and insulting statements like how it's away to be a tough guy or to compensate for a small package, then I would think Freuds quote applies for them "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity"
theicemanmpls
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Jwarrior,
OC all you want fella.
Just because I have a strong anti OC opinion no reason for name callin, or finger pointin.
Let me say this, men who cross dress in womens clothing often argue rabidly for it's main stream acceptance.
After many years, in certain places, mostly urban settings, it is now semi acceptable. Slowly, but surely. Same with OC.
In most urban parts of the country, OC is not the social norm. It may take years to get there. Shoving it down the throats of soccer moms is only going to back fire. Look what happened in California.
Know what I mean?
Think about it.
OC all you want fella.
Just because I have a strong anti OC opinion no reason for name callin, or finger pointin.
Let me say this, men who cross dress in womens clothing often argue rabidly for it's main stream acceptance.
After many years, in certain places, mostly urban settings, it is now semi acceptable. Slowly, but surely. Same with OC.
In most urban parts of the country, OC is not the social norm. It may take years to get there. Shoving it down the throats of soccer moms is only going to back fire. Look what happened in California.
Know what I mean?
Think about it.
People who OCed in California (unloaded, by the way) did so because that was their only option. Concealed carry was prohibited except for a few fortunate few who managed to have the favor of their local sheriff.
Lawsuits to force sheriffs to issue licenses were continually tossed out of court on the basis that people had the option to OC. The arguments used to toss the lawsuits against sheriffs are no longer valid due to the over-reaction of the legislature and Jerry Brown. See the article titled:
"Does Closing the Door on Open Carry Mean More Concealed Weapons? "
Excerpt:
Full article available at http://www.guns.com/does-closing-the-door-on-open-carry-mean-more-concealed-weapons.html
Mainsail
Member
theicemanmpls said:
You're forgetting or ignoring the plain fact that some of us open carry and have actual experience. There isn't a more urban area than Seattle or Tacoma and open carry IS acceptable. Have you ever been to Seattle? You couldn't swing a dead cat without hitting a militant liberal.
Your argument further breaks down when you use the phrase "shoving it down the throats of soccer moms". We didn't shove anything; we wore our sidearms like it was no big deal, went about our daily business, and were polite and friendly to all. In the end all gun owners benefited from the positive image we displayed. While most of the antis in here were talking about gun rights, we were actually doing something.
So you have talk and supposition, we have actual boots on the ground experience. Which argument holds more water?
Elkins45
Member
44Brent:
If you are going to respond to my post then please do me the courtesy of understanding it first. My clearly stated comparison was the similarity of my opinion of OC to Clinnton's opinion of abortion. I compared opinion to opinion, and at no point did I compare OC to abortion.
Your mischaracterization of my remarks indicate you either did not closely read what I had written, or that you intentionally misquoted me because you thought it would strengthen your opinion somehow.
If you are going to respond to my post then please do me the courtesy of understanding it first. My clearly stated comparison was the similarity of my opinion of OC to Clinnton's opinion of abortion. I compared opinion to opinion, and at no point did I compare OC to abortion.
Your mischaracterization of my remarks indicate you either did not closely read what I had written, or that you intentionally misquoted me because you thought it would strengthen your opinion somehow.
I believe in the right to keep and bear arms, I have a concealed carry permit and I sometimes, but not always, carry. I'm in favor of both concealed and open carry. I don't condemn anyone for their choice in the matter, so long as their intent is to defend themselves and their family. I am a retired, conservative, former Marine from a southern conservative state. I am pre-disposed to firearm ownership and the right of an individual to self protection and the defense of his or her family and home.
Having said that, I don't trust most citizens to back out of a parking space without hurting someone. I don't feel safer around armed citizens I don't know. I don't want anyone to go armed with even the smallest intention of defending me who has not been hired and trained to do so.
My personal experience (I am not in any way attempting to speak generally) has not been positive regarding people I have encountered who have elected to display their arms. That doesn't mean I believe everyone who carries openly is a danger to the public or is necessarily creating a situation in which "the right to bear arms" is put in a negative light. But I believe that some are (a danger) and do (create a negative impression with the non-gun-toting public).
I won't openly carry. If you do, I hope that are polite, responsible, friendly, well-trained and that your weapon is as secure as possible.
Having said that, I don't trust most citizens to back out of a parking space without hurting someone. I don't feel safer around armed citizens I don't know. I don't want anyone to go armed with even the smallest intention of defending me who has not been hired and trained to do so.
My personal experience (I am not in any way attempting to speak generally) has not been positive regarding people I have encountered who have elected to display their arms. That doesn't mean I believe everyone who carries openly is a danger to the public or is necessarily creating a situation in which "the right to bear arms" is put in a negative light. But I believe that some are (a danger) and do (create a negative impression with the non-gun-toting public).
I won't openly carry. If you do, I hope that are polite, responsible, friendly, well-trained and that your weapon is as secure as possible.
jahwarrior
Member
If I'd called you a name, I'm pretty sure I would have gotten a ban for it. I'm still here. I'm not pointing a finger, either, merely stating the truth. Wanting to have open carry banned is just as asinine and stupid as wanting to have concealed carry banned. Yeah, look what happened in CA; now, nobody can carry, unless they can get a permit to carry concealed, which is rare.
Yeah, people aren't used to it. Too bad for them, they can get over it, and get over themselves. Minorities weren't allowed to share water fountains with whites, either, or ride in the front of the bus. By your rationale, we'd still be riding in the back, and would still be second class citizens. I suppose I shouldn't be walking around my neighborhood with my girlfriend, since she's white, and I'm not, and I'll probably offend the whitefolks around here, many of whom have already expressed their distaste for having "one of them people" living in their neighborhood.
Yes, anti-open carry is much like racism, or homophobia. You don't like gay sex? Don't have it. You don't like open carry? Don't do it. But when people who are supposed to be on our side are calling for a ban on open carry, people like you, well, then you're part of the problem.
You don't really support Second Amendment rights, in reality. You only support the privilege to carry concealed. And yes, it's a privilege, because in most states, you have to have a permit to do it. That means you have to have the government's permission to do it. When you need permission, it's no longer a right. Concealed carry is a privilege, open carry is a right. Learn the difference, learn what it means to respect our rights, and learn to read better.
mortablunt
Member
^ And a Socialist is a Liberal with a gun who wants to make it so that nobody has incentive to mug.
It always amazes me how quickly one can incite a flame war and get an internet backdraft by bringing up Open Carry. It's like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osw9UJ18rds&feature=related
It always amazes me how quickly one can incite a flame war and get an internet backdraft by bringing up Open Carry. It's like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osw9UJ18rds&feature=related
theicemanmpls
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I thought THR was colorless, odorless, and never taste-less.
Thank you for telling everyone you are African American. Why is that important that we know this?
What does race have to do with OC or CCW? Since you brought the race card up, hows this?
The story of racial equality in America did not happen over night. The struggle continues.
The public acceptance of OC is not going to happen over night either.
You may think people are staring at you because you are a stranger in the neighborhood. WRONG. Perhaps they are staring at the gun on your hip?
Do you OC because you are in a inter racial relationship? Think it will frighten the ignorant who object to your personal business?
Last, please don't judge me regarding my support of the second amendment. Where do you get that idea?
You say I am this, and I am that. Think what you want.
I do not like the idea of OC in urban areas. IMOH, it is bad for the cause. In rural areas where it is accepted, I would probably OC also.
IMO, OC must be done in a way not to alarm, intimidate, anger, or frighten people.
BTW, I am a disabled veteran, and a long time member of the NRA. I teach kids firearms safety and do public service work for my club.
So, because I don't agree with you, you insinuate I may be a trader to the cause?
Wrong.
hogshead
Member
Man did this post go on forever or what. I had to go back to the first post and read it to remember what started this whole bickering match. Talk about thread veer. We ran this one off the road and down through the woods about 5 miles. OC cc what difference does it make just be glad we can carry.
Stevie-Ray
Member
I am a most time concealed carrier, sometime open carrier, but I must say that is very well stated. Bravo.
AK103K
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Its not a right everywhere.
And for the most part, whether we like it or not, pretty much everything these days is a privilege. The whole "land of the free..." thing, is just an illusion.
If we were free, most of what we discuss "rules" wise, would have no need of a discussion.
FIVETWOSEVEN
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Under the constitution, both should be a right.
JackCrow
Member
And in some states they are.
gamestalker
member
I have carried open for about 45 yrs., and although I do carry concealed from time to time, my primary is OC. But I live in Az. where OC has been legal probably since the beginning of time. If I go to my local wally world right now I know I'll see at least 1 or 2 people OC-ing. And in consideration of how many I see doing OC, there are probably 10 more CC-ing, especially since a CWP is no longer required in our state.
jahwarrior
Member
I never said I was African American, did I? And it's not important, if I were.
I guess the concept of analogy is foreign to you, or you're simply incapable of abstract thought.
Exactly, because of people like you.
Since you don't live here, you have no idea why people in my neighborhood don't want me around. Sicen I've been a minority longer than I've been carrying a gun, I'm pretty sure that I recognize ethnic bias when I'm greeted with it. But go ahead and keep assuming things.
I open carry because I want to. I don't do it to frighten anyone except thos e that would do me harm otherwise. This is the problem with people like you. You think we do it to intimidate others.
I got the idea from your asinine statements.
You say I am this, and I am that. Think what you want.
I do not like the idea of OC in urban areas. IMOH, it is bad for the cause. In rural areas where it is accepted, I would probably OC also.
IMO, OC must be done in a way not to alarm, intimidate, anger, or frighten people.
BTW, I am a disabled veteran, and a long time member of the NRA. I teach kids firearms safety and do public service work for my club.
So, because I don't agree with you, you insinuate I may be a trader to the cause?
Wrong.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
That's probably about enough, once more. Anyone who's mind was likely to be changed has enough info to chew on to make whatever decision they need to make.
I'm sure we'll argue about this all again next week.
I'm sure we'll argue about this all again next week.
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