Saw the "New" JFK Shooting theory on TV

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Newton

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I don't know how "new" it was, but it really surpirsed me. I know this thing has been re-hashed a million times with a million different theories, I personally find the "sniper in the water drain" the most amusing and bizarre theory, but this one really grabbed my attention.

When you have several eye witnesses and a PHOTOGRAPH of the sniper on the grassy knoll, its hard to just quote the Warren Commission and say that there was just one shooter, and that we need to get over it.

The simple facts of last nights show were that expert photographic analysis of a picture taken 1/6th of a second after the fatal shot shows a man dressed in a police officers uniform pointing a rifle at the president, with a man in back of him wearing a hardhat and someone dressed in a soldiers uniform in front of them. The smoke "donut" from the weapons muzzle can be clearly seen. A driver on the overpass saw the police officer toss the weapon to a man dressed in railway workers clothes who broke it down into pieces and both then left the scene. The soldier in the foreground was later identified and interviewed for the first time. He stated that he heard the shot and felt the concussion of the bullet pass him by, he had also earlier been asked to move to a different location by a man who produced CIA credentials (probably fake - no conspiracy theory there). He was assigned to Alaska just a couple of days later and by the time his posting was over, the verdict on the whole affair had been decided on.

A key figure in the French underworld confirmed these facts and identified the shooter as a now dead Sardinian (I think) hitman. He added that the shooters stayed in a safe house in the Dallas area for 10 days after the killing. Payment was made in Heroin.

You would have to see the whole show to get the facts properly aligned, but when you actually see someone explain that he saw a sniper dressed in a police uniform take the shot and then pass the rifle to an accomplice, and then hear this information corroborated by 2 other people, it makes you wonder how on earth we still believe in the lone shooter theory.

As ever YMMV and probably will.
 
There were actually 751 snipers in Dallas that day.

So many bullets hit JFK that he actually vaporized. The "body" that we see is actually a wax dummy.

Lyndon Johnson was the sniper in the Book Repository, J. Edgar Hoover commanded the sniper teams along the overpass.

Zapruder's camera had a 105mm howitzer attached to it, that's why it continues to jostle so much, from the recoil...
 
I was going to add that if you have nothing serious to add then just move quietly along, seems I was too late.
 
I think the Sardinian hitman's name associated with the conspiracy theory was Lucian Serti (sp?) and he actually spent several years living in south america with financial support from an unknown source. I can't remember where I heard this but it was several years ago. Does anyone have a picture of this guy. My father knew someone with that name and backround back in the late 50's and would like to see if it was the same guy.
 
I have not seen this latest show on TV but never did buy
the Warren Commission version. I have shot too many
rifles to believe that Oswald did this all by himself. I also
remember that a team of Marine sharpshooters
[snipers] could not duplicate Oswald's supposed feat
with the Carcano type rifle and 3/4 inch .22 scope. In any
murder case you look for a motive. Who had the most
to gain from JFK's assassination? There have always been
too many unansered questions for the Warren report to
be believable.
 
Actually, given the HUGE numbers of conspiracy theories that are out there, I don't think mine's all that off base, really.

All of these have been floated, either new or old, over the years, with MOUNTAINS of "evidence" to back them up:

-- The Mob was in on the assassination (I give this one stronger credibility than most, even though the Mob has always been VERY reticent about going after public figures).

-- LBJ was the main orchestrator behind the assassination.

-- J. Edgar Hoover was a main participant in the assassination.

-- Jackie called down the assassination because she was tired of JFK's cheating.

-- There were upwards 40 assassins spread all along the motorcade route.

-- Zapruder was in on the conspiracy, and made the movie to document the events for posterity but also to be able to identify bystanders who would then be murdered before they could give their testimony.

-- The limo was wired with a massive bomb in the undercarriage in case no one managed to hit JFK. That's why the FBI seized the limo so quickly (Duh, as if they wouldn't no matter what!)

-- The ultimate failsafe was, if JFK managed to escape all that, I guess, the pilot or copilot of Air Force One would crash the plane to prevent pictures of his homosexual activity from being leaked to the military and his family.


I've really begun to dread this time of year, because there's a huge spike in mouthbreathing as all the competing conspiracy theorists promote their pet projects.

If there was a conspiracy to assassinate the President, all of the main actors are dead, and they managed to create the impossible -- the seamless multi-person conspiracy that never unravels. Not even Nixon, for all his paranoia, was able to do that with Watergate.

Quite frankly, when it comes to the Kennedy assassination conspiracy theory of the day, I'm not really sure that anyone has anything serious to add anymore...
 
Supposedly, three shots were fired by Oswald. Apparently, the second bullet shot was never recovered. Does anybody know how many empty cartridge cases were found in and around Oswald's rifle?

I saw the Zapgruder film shown in slow motion a number of times and some of the Kennedy autopsy pictures, and looks like the 6.5mm round definitely did the trick. The upper right hand side of Kennedy's skull was pretty much blown apart, and I think a significant portion of the brain was missing.

I also remember the evening of Nov. 22nd, 1963 standing on Wisconsin Ave.,in Wash. DC, across the street from WTTG-TV (now Fox TV), and watching Jackie Kennedy sitting next to a casket in the same blood splattered pink suit, as the ambulance passed by on its way to Bethesda Naval Hospital for the autopsy.
 
My favorite is the comparatively recent hypothesis that LHO fired two shots to no lethal effect and that the third head-exploding fatal shot was accidentally fired by a secret service agent who panicked and screwed the pooch. The best part of that hypothesis is that said agent was carrying a brand new gee-whiz rifle called an AR-15.
 
Oswald said something like "I didn't shoot anyone, I'm just a patsy." I believe him. I think that ex-marine did not fire a gun that day.

So, it's been 40 years since the last coup d'etat.

Regards.
 
Anyone see the "Red Dwarf" episode that covered this? "Tikka to Ride", I think.

Long story short, Lister, Cat, Kryten and Rimmer travel back in time and accidentally thrwart the assassination attempt by Oswald by knocking him out the window (and then going back and being in the room when Oswald enters, so he goes upstairs and when he makes the shot, he only wounds JFK). They then travel forward in time and find that JFK ended up being a horrible president, nearly caused nuclear war and ended up being a discrace. They kidnap him from the police who were taking him to jail and take him back in time, where he ends up shooting himself from the grassy knoll.

Very plausible theory, there.
So am I right in thinking I could get a major nuclear explosion all over this suit? Cos I'm telling you guys, that stuff does *not* dry clean!
 
I think anybody who believes that stooge Oswald fired that manlicher rifle three time that rapidly (and that accurately) needs to come look at some prime real eastate I have for sale on the planet mars.

The Italians affectionately referred to the manlicher as the "gun that never hurt anybody on purpose". I can believe he could get one shot on target, but this is a bolt action rifle. Imagine trying to operate a bolt, reset the gun, sight in and squeeze and be hitting that accurately(?) Two of the shots were within about three inches on POI. The first went through the neck just below the head and cut the spinal cord. That's when you see JFK's arms "windmilling" as he is trying to move but they nerve connection has been damaged. A couple of seconds later the fatal shot hits the front of the head... which according to the Warren report, was actually an exit wound although it somehow cause his head to snap to the rear.

Two shooters?


DUHHHHHHHH!
 
"A couple of seconds later the fatal shot hits the front of the head... which according to the Warren report, was actually an exit wound although it somehow cause his head to snap to the rear."

This has been discussed in depth here, the concept of both massive muscle spasms caused by the head trauma pulling JFK's head back, as well as the simple physics of the plume of material ejected from his head pushing it back in a Newtonian response.

Also, if you examine the Zapruder film frame by frame, you'll clearly see the blood and bone tissue erupting from the FRONT of JFK's head, not the rear.
 
the simple physics of the plume of material ejected from his head pushing it back in a Newtonian response.
Mike, I can buy the muscle spasm bit, but this is harder to swallow.
You're ignoring the whole picture, which involves the fact that all the matter that is being blown out was accellerated by the bullet pushing along its directional vector.

Simple experiment. Take a can of baked beans and set it on a post. Shoot at it. Did it rocket back towards you?
 
If there was a conspiracy to assassinate the President, all of the main actors are dead, and they managed to create the impossible -- the seamless multi-person conspiracy that never unravels.

There's one more. It was all done at the behest of Lady Bird Johnson. ;) (Is she still alive? :uhoh: )
 
Simple experiment. Take a can of baked beans and set it on a post. Shoot at it. Did it rocket back towards you?

better example, wrap a canteloupe in a 1/4" thick layer of strapping tape, set it on a post, shoot at it, and see if it jumps toward or away from the rifle. Much indebted to Penn and Teller for their piece on this in their book "How to Play With Your Food."
 
Cordex,

There are a couple of examples of this phenomon using pumpkins and other kinds of mellons on the website.


"You're ignoring the whole picture, which involves the fact that all the matter that is being blown out was accellerated by the bullet pushing along its directional vector."

And quite frankly no, you're not ignoring that, at least not as I understand physics. The matter being accellerated by the bullet is what CAUSES this effect.

In other words, if you have 8 ounces of material being blown out of one side of an object in a plume, the force of that plume pushes the origin object in the other direction -- the equal by opposite thingy (note scientific term) that Newton talked about.

Here's one of the experiments I'm talking about...

http://www.jfklancer.com/galanor/jet_effect.html


I don't know of any cadaver experimentation on the possibility of the jet effect, but it is at least possible given the experimentation that's been done.


A can of baked beans is also a poor example, IMO. You need to have something that is heavy enough to resist the initial impact of the bullet and large enough to allow the pressure wave to build -- a can of beans isn't either.

I have, however, shot 1 gallon milk jugs in the past...

Some of them flew back.

Some of them flew straight up in the air.

And some of them came back towards me...

Not very scientific, but it is interesting...
 
Jeeze, must everything be serious?

Nope, that's why the Internet gods created Glock Talk.

I have heard the Newtonian reactionary force theory many times, even if you accept it, have you ever seen that Watermelon "snap" back towards you as if it had been launched off its stand as opposed to gently falling forwards off the stand under the recoil impulse.

How on Earth can you get past the initial autopsy report that indicated a tiny entrance wound in the front of the head and an exit wound that removed approxiately 50% of the REAR of the Presidents head. Penn and Teller may be able to make a Watermelon fall towards the shooter but I doubt they could give it an explosive frontal wound and a pin prick exit wound.

Three eye witnesses:

Military serviceman (on the knoll and in the line of fire)
Housewife (facing the knoll)
Motorist (parked on the flyover looking down into the Parking Lot)

One photograph showing shooter, rifle, and muzzle blast.

Trust me, I'm not a big conspiracy theorist, I believe that we did land on the Moon, that Flu Shots do not contain an alien virus, and that Iraq did have WOMD.

But every time I examine the evidence, whichever evidence, on the JFK shooting, I find it impossible to believe that there was not a shooter in front of the President, be he on the Grassy Knoll, Overpass, or hovering overhead in an invisible helicopter.

How could the Warren commission believe otherwise, and don't even get me started on the nonsense of the magic bullet. The official answer to this tragedy is even more ludicrous than some of the far fetched conspiracy theories.
 
Simple experiment. Take a can of baked beans and set it on a post. Shoot at it. Did it rocket back towards you?

I HAVE actually done this - not with baked beans, but an old, swollen jumbo-sized can of sliced peaches. With a .243 Win from 100 yds.

YES, it DID fly straight back at me.:what:

It seems to me that this is precisely the jumping-off point for almost all the conspiracy theories. They tested this phenomenon back in the '70's I think, but only with cadavers. No one seems to have accounted for the fact that a living human head is slightly pressurized on the inside.

I used to know a cop who told me some of the weird things that happen when a person is shot in the head. Whenever they were working a scene, a cloud of misted blood would appear on a wall or other object in the most unlikely places. The pressure of the head atomizes the blood sufficiently that it's able to float throughout a house, sometimes several rooms away.
 
I always where my tin foil helmet this time of year..

That being said, having read every (and I mean ) every published book on the subject, I beleive Oswald was the shooter and the instigator was Carlos Marcello.

WildactuallyitwasthemasonsAlaska
 
I don't know of any cadaver experimentation on the possibility of the jet effect, but it is at least possible given the experimentation that's been done.
I heard something on the radio the other day about exactly that, cadaver experimentation. It was said they were able to duplicate the effect as reported. Wish I could remember who said it.

I have, however, shot 1 gallon milk jugs in the past...
I too have shot alot of milk jugs, along with fruit, vegetables, melons, etc. I have found it common for the object to react by coming toward me.
 
"How on Earth can you get past the initial autopsy report that indicated a tiny entrance wound in the front of the head and an exit wound that removed approxiately 50% of the REAR of the Presidents head."

Doctor error in noting the location of the wound given the fact that he's working on the remains of the President of the United States?


How do you get past the frames of the Zapruder film that shows, very clearly, the gout of blood and tissue coming from the front/side of Kennedy's head, with the rear of his head visible behind the cloud?



Sgt. Bob,

That would be VERY intersting to see.
 
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