sturmgewehr667
member
an eye for an eye
Man shot by police in Seattle for brandishing a rifle
- Thread starter MikePGS
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They were told it was loaded with blanks, which it was. It's hard to hold any rifle and not have it pointed generally in the direction you're facing. I am not a cop, and I would not have approached the situation. If the kid was breaking into my house with a rifle, yes I would have shot.
But since nobody was being threatened or in grave peril, and they were given information that the kid wasn't armed with live ammunition, I think the officers should've retreated instead of firing.
But since nobody was being threatened or in grave peril, and they were given information that the kid wasn't armed with live ammunition, I think the officers should've retreated instead of firing.
Golden Hound
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Please DON'T. We're not babies here, we have the ability to think for ourselves and write what we believe. We don't need to be censored just because an unpleasant topic happens to come up.
I am confident that we can discuss this issue without it turning into a trainwreck and needing to be shut down. I know I will be proven right, because we are all mature people here.
sturmgewehr667
member
i dont see why you all have to get so upset because i have a differing opinion. i believe those cops unjustly killed the kid and therefore should take responsibility for it
I'm wondering if the cops didn't overreact to the sight of a nazi uniform and a large, evil K98 bolt action rifle. If the sight were a gang banger with his pants dragging, the familiarity of the scene might have led to a more proper level of reaction.
The reaction posts to the article people are posting are typical liberal hate in which the dead man's interest in WW2 Germany somehow justified his extermination.
And the "he pointed the weapon at me" angle is extremely easy to use and impossible to disprove. And as a previous poster stated, holding a rifle at a position of rest can often entails pointing in the general direction of someone, or at least the moving of it to a position of safe pointing entails moving it through the horizontal plane that could constitute "pointing at me."
The reaction posts to the article people are posting are typical liberal hate in which the dead man's interest in WW2 Germany somehow justified his extermination.
And the "he pointed the weapon at me" angle is extremely easy to use and impossible to disprove. And as a previous poster stated, holding a rifle at a position of rest can often entails pointing in the general direction of someone, or at least the moving of it to a position of safe pointing entails moving it through the horizontal plane that could constitute "pointing at me."
Golden Hound
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The cops probably believed their lives were in danger because there was a rifle pointed at them, so they really had no choice. I'm a big critic of the police and I realize that they often shoot the wrong person by accident, but the more I think about it, in this particular case I don't think they were in the wrong. I mean, if you had a gun pointed at YOU, what would you do?
I don't think the cops deserve to be killed for what they did any more than you or I would deserve to be killed if we were forced to shoot someone who was pointing a gun at us.
I don't think the cops deserve to be killed for what they did any more than you or I would deserve to be killed if we were forced to shoot someone who was pointing a gun at us.
Ragnar Danneskjold
Member
You can believe whatever you want. You happen to be wrong in this case, but you still have the right to think what you'd like. But as this is a privately run forum, the moderators reserve the right to delete any post that violates forum guidelines. You advocated the killing of law enforcement, and thus broke said rules.
The rest of us are trying to actually have a discussion about a touch subject. Please don't ruin the thread for everyone by continuing to post prohibited comments.
sturmgewehr667
member
the cops could have made up any story they wanted to get out of trouble for shooting an innocent person. they should be held accountable, i shouldn't have said killing them was the thing to do, they just need the same punishment as a normal person would get for shooting someone innocent on an impulse reaction
Ragnar Danneskjold
Member
I am curious as to why you assume so much. As you were not there, the only access to information you have is from the media, which we all know is not the best at being honest, accurate, or through. So what exactly do you base your assumptions about the guilt of police on?
sturmgewehr667
member
im basing my assumption on the fact that someone would have to be very drunk to point a gun at armed police officers, and from reading about the kid's previous history, he's not the type to do it. i think the cops were nervous and at the sight of the kid with a gun, shot him
MT GUNNY
Member
The Cops overreacted PERIOD.
Ragnar Danneskjold
Member
From reading about his history where? Who is speaking about his history?
The bottom line is, you're getting all of your information from the media, and from friends of the deceased who have an invest emotional interest in blaming everyone but the deceased.
You have no real facts. None of us do. I don't know what really happened. Neither do you. All I know is that if someone were to point a rifle at me, and not put it down when I told them to, I would draw, and more than likely shoot. The 4 rules do not allow me to assume that it is unloaded, and common sense does not allow me to try to snatch the rifle from his hand.
All of you stating for certain that the cops overreacted are being guided by your general dislike of police a lot more than by any factual knowledge of the actual shooting.
bluetopper
Member
Amen Brother!!!
sturmgewehr667
member
if none of us have no real fact, how do you know he pointed a rifle at the cops? and if you tried to shoot him your taurus would probably ftf. lol jk
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How do you know what positions his arms were in when he was shot?
That's what the autopsy is for. If he was shot in the chest, they can determine what position his arms were in because of the bullet's entry into. The muscles and flesh are torn according to how the bullet enters the flesh. You can't fake it that a man had his arm upraised with a knife in his hand if he wasn't like that.
BTW, none of us have all the facts. We have only what the papers told us. One thing good that the Supreme Court did was to set the standard for police conduct. It is what a LEO with like training and experience would have done given the same situation. So, it's not Monday night quarterbacking by the peanut gallery who's never worn a badge or patrolled the streets and enforced the law. It's what a similarly trained and experienced cop would have done.
IMO, you point a gun at most cops and they'd probably shoot you. Most departments allow for using deadly for to defend self and others against grave bodily harm.
Let's wait for more info on this.
That's what the autopsy is for. If he was shot in the chest, they can determine what position his arms were in because of the bullet's entry into. The muscles and flesh are torn according to how the bullet enters the flesh. You can't fake it that a man had his arm upraised with a knife in his hand if he wasn't like that.
BTW, none of us have all the facts. We have only what the papers told us. One thing good that the Supreme Court did was to set the standard for police conduct. It is what a LEO with like training and experience would have done given the same situation. So, it's not Monday night quarterbacking by the peanut gallery who's never worn a badge or patrolled the streets and enforced the law. It's what a similarly trained and experienced cop would have done.
IMO, you point a gun at most cops and they'd probably shoot you. Most departments allow for using deadly for to defend self and others against grave bodily harm.
Let's wait for more info on this.
FoMoGo
Member
#1 police called to a shots fired report.
#2 Police show up and suspects run.
#3 suspect comes outside with rifle with bayonet extended.
#4 Officers shout multiple times for suspect to drop weapon... suspect refuses to comply.
#5 Suspect points rifle at officers.
#6 Officers neutralize the threat.
Now... to me the rest of the "facts" would be fairly minor... he was drunk and didnt comprehend... he had blanks in the rifle... He was a "good boy", ever notice that the friends and family of these guys never say that he was a dirtbag that needed to die?
These points are what I would look at.
Dude pretty much committed suicide by cop.
Jim
PS, how many people have you heard about who were shot by an "unloaded gun"?
#2 Police show up and suspects run.
#3 suspect comes outside with rifle with bayonet extended.
#4 Officers shout multiple times for suspect to drop weapon... suspect refuses to comply.
#5 Suspect points rifle at officers.
#6 Officers neutralize the threat.
Now... to me the rest of the "facts" would be fairly minor... he was drunk and didnt comprehend... he had blanks in the rifle... He was a "good boy", ever notice that the friends and family of these guys never say that he was a dirtbag that needed to die?
These points are what I would look at.
Dude pretty much committed suicide by cop.
Jim
PS, how many people have you heard about who were shot by an "unloaded gun"?
cassandrasdaddy
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The man who lives in the apartment next door, Mark Kedziora, said that before Thursday night he hadn't seen his neighbor wearing a full German military uniform, but said the man wore a black mustache, combed-over hair and military boots.
Kedziora said he saw his neighbor and two other men with guns standing in the alley at about 1:30 a.m. Thursday. He looked outside when he heard a loud bang, thinking the guns were fake. But when he watched the men reload, he realized the guns were real and said to his friend, "That guy's an idiot."
One of the men was wearing an olive uniform and a military helmet, Kedziora said, and his neighbor was wearing a Nazi military uniform.
"I didn't know he had the whole get-up," he said. A third man was wearing street clothes. It wasn't clear if either of the other two men live at the apartment.
Kedziora said he heard confusion outside and could hear police warning the man to drop his weapon. A few minutes later, they watched out the window as the wounded neighbor was taken away and SWAT teams searched the neighborhood.
Police searching the apartment after the incident found the large collection of German military regalia and a lot of alcohol, Kappel said.
Kedziora said he saw his neighbor and two other men with guns standing in the alley at about 1:30 a.m. Thursday. He looked outside when he heard a loud bang, thinking the guns were fake. But when he watched the men reload, he realized the guns were real and said to his friend, "That guy's an idiot."
One of the men was wearing an olive uniform and a military helmet, Kedziora said, and his neighbor was wearing a Nazi military uniform.
"I didn't know he had the whole get-up," he said. A third man was wearing street clothes. It wasn't clear if either of the other two men live at the apartment.
Kedziora said he heard confusion outside and could hear police warning the man to drop his weapon. A few minutes later, they watched out the window as the wounded neighbor was taken away and SWAT teams searched the neighborhood.
Police searching the apartment after the incident found the large collection of German military regalia and a lot of alcohol, Kappel said.
FoMoGo
Member
AND he had the police remove his rifle from him before...
His father came and picked it up a couple of months later.
Jim
His father came and picked it up a couple of months later.
Jim
bluetopper
Member
Simply take him to jail. Seemed like they shot first then asked questions later.
FoMoGo
Member
HE HAS A RIFLE POINTED AT THEM.
Someone walks up to you and your family... points a gun at your family...
Do you talk to them, or do you neutralize the threat?
You neutralize the threat.
Jim
Someone walks up to you and your family... points a gun at your family...
Do you talk to them, or do you neutralize the threat?
You neutralize the threat.
Jim
ZombieHunter
Member
cops acted just fine. if i knew the kid i'm sure i'd be pissed but i'd still understand and agree with what they did. you don't point a weapon at a cop, you don't fight with them. some dumbass i went to highschool with got himself killed by the police when he refused to drop a large pair of shears when ordered to. my buddy told me cops have a 21' radius regarding baddies with knives...inside that and refusing to drop it gets you shot.
it was his poor decision...who answers a door with a rifle? who doesn't check first who's there? condolenses to all involved.
it was his poor decision...who answers a door with a rifle? who doesn't check first who's there? condolenses to all involved.
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