Man shot by police in Seattle for brandishing a rifle

[Vonderek]

Nothing funny about it.
We were asked if, based on the story reported, we thought the cops over reacted. Questioning the facts of the story is off topic.

You don't know ALL the facts anymore than I do. If you take every newspaper story at face value you are gullible. Obviously from info in later posts, there is more to the story as time goes on. If "questioning the facts of the story" is off topic then there is no point in discussing anything. It all must be true. "Nothing to see here...move along." If the meaning of the word "funny" in its context in my earlier post escapes you, then how about this: It's "interesting" and "naive" that so many people here take the police account as indisputable gospel given how so often in past initial police accounts have been proven wrong as facts later emerge. If that's off-topic when discussing a bizarre news account about a police shooting of a college student in his home then excuse me.

 

[FoMoGo]

Funny how everyone here takes the cop's word as indisputable that the rifle was pointed at him.

Well... in the article it is stated...

Ray was at his computer in his hallway, directly above the basement stairwell, when he heard officers identify themselves and order Murphy to drop the weapon.

So we KNOW they told him to drop it... as they stated.
Not hard to imagine, after reading that, that the rest of the story is true.


Jim

 

[expvideo]

Murphy and his friends then walked down to the basement, and Ray unloaded his car and went inside.

I think the reporter meant to say Kar, which would confirm what we've all thought so far. It was probably a Kar 98

 

[notorious]

I believe, drunk or not, everyone has the right to defend themselves.

Whether it is the COPS/SWAT/NATIONAL GUARD/MARINES/INTERPOL/NWO threatening YOU or not.

If you believe in LIBERTY, self defense is god-LIKE.

How is it self defense when he was the one with the gun and he pointed it at the police? The police acted properly in their own defense and defense of citizens around them.

Somehow this thread took longer than what I am used to but it never disappoints that someone will throw out the "If a cop points a gun at me then I will shoot him because I am defending myself..."

Yeah... go with that logic... call me when you're dead....

 

[mgregg85]

Shooting into an alleyway sounds pretty bad, though that whole bit about the cops warning him to drop the gun and then shooting him sounds fishy.

From all reports he sounds like a pretty normal guy, why would he do a suicide by cop? Unless he was very, very drunk?

 

[FoMoGo]

You can be a very intelligent person and have NO common sense.
He is one of the guys who marched to the beat of his own drum... and there is nothing wrong with that.
BUT, in my experience these are the guys who lack in common or street sense.


Jim

 

[TexasRifleman]

Unless he was very, very drunk?

I think we have the winning guess.....

Or could be just plain stupidity. Check post #98 for a news article showing this isn't the first time he'd done something stupid with that rifle.

 

[notorious]

Right... smart guys like him never do something stupid and kill themselves, it must be the cops who made up a story to cover up their agenda of killing brilliant students who are Nazi reenactors who go shoot blanks in an alley with a real rifle at 145am.

Don't you know we get that at briefing everyday? "Kill smart students, but only if they are in period costume, then cover it up, we have put military surplus rifles in your squad cars so you can plant it on them afterwards. Be safe out there, guys. Hoorah!"

 

[ericyp]

Nature's first green is gold,
Her hardest hue to hold.
Her early leaf's a flower;
But only so an hour.
Then leaf subsides to leaf.
So Eden sank to grief,
so dawn goes down to day.
Nothing gold can stay.

 

[Millwright]

I th[ink "alcohol was involved" and an apparent disassociation from reality may have played a part.

I feel sorry for the cops.... >MW

 

[toivo]

Not much common sense, a lot of alcohol, discharging a firearm in a densely populated area... The result is tragic, but not surprising.

He sounds like a guy who lived in a fantasy world most of the time anyway. If he was drunk enough, it may have all seemed like a game to him. Never underestimate the stupidity of a drunk. When you are holding a firearm and a cop tells you to put it down, you do it. That's Survival Skills 101, along with other valuable lessons like not driving into telephone poles, not falling down staircases, and not passing out on the train tracks. My definition of personal responsibility includes not being too drunk to perform basic survival functions.

 

[EmGeeGeorge]

I've decided that blame lies at the shot students feet, and his stupid friends... A while back many yrs ago had a friend drunkenly brandish a pistol... me and a few other buddies disarmed him, put him to sleep, kept an eye on him...
"Gee,my buddy is drunk, shooting a rifle in city limits... I'll check my yahoo mail while he drunkenly confronts the police..."The friends couldve shut it down before anyone got hurt...
He actually sounds like, problems aside, he wouldve been a good guy to hang around with at times... Interesting at least.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

you know, I long for the days when I lived in a free and democratic society

what year was that? and when do you imagine it changed?
for that matter what other place do you imagine is better?

 

[Officers'Wife]

I wasn't there so I can't say for sure. With the information given it sounds like pre-meditated suicide.

 

[notorious]

Not sure if it was a suicide by cop but he sure didn't make any choices which helped him live a long life.

 

[regal]

I don't care how drunk I get I know better than to answer the door to the cops.

Nothing good can come out of it, they can come back with a warrant if its important.

 

[Flyboy]

I'm usually the first person to complain about police abuse, but I have to side with the cops on this one.

To those who say the police should have apprehended him without shooting him, how would you have done it? You say the rifle wasn't loaded with live ammunition, but put yourself in the cops shoes: you've responded to gunshots, a gun is pointed at you, somebody you don't know says "it's just blanks." Are you going to bet your life on that?

And did you miss the part about the bayonet? I sincerely doubt it was a "blank." Do you want to wrestle with a drunk with a four-foot polearm?

Sorry, it's either suicide-by-cop or a Darwin Award for this one, assuming the story got the details close to right.

 

[notorious]

Ummm... but but but... the cops wear those armor vests... no knife can get through it... and if they get shot at, just turn or dodge the bullet and then shoot the knife off the tip of the rifle and then talk to the guy and arrest him and then let him go because he's a good kid and then we can sing kumbaya over an open fire with marshmallows.

 

[david_the_greek]

hhhmmm likes to do reenactments huh? Wonder if he was shooting blanks?

woops, appears he was. Just went back and read post 98

 

[JImbothefiveth]

Okay everyone, put yourself in this situation. You are called for "shots fired", and some guy answers the door in a military uniform. You tell him repeatedly to drop the weapon, and then he points it at you.

I think the Brady campaign should rally congress into taking the cops guns away FIRST!

Didn't the ACLU sue the cops for using hollowpoints?

I believe, drunk or not, everyone has the right to defend themselves.

Whether it is the COPS/SWAT/NATIONAL GUARD/MARINES/INTERPOL/NWO threatening YOU or not

The cops were not out on a mission to kill him, or even to beat him up. They were there to stop him from firing a gun in a crowded area, actually defending other people from him.

NATIONAL GUARD/MARINES/INTERPOL/NWO

The National Gaurd and Marines defend me, and you, and even our right to self-defense, so when are you going to have to defend yourselves from them? I believe INTERPOL only tracks down criminals(and even then just to arrest them) and I am not a criminal.

Not going to address that last comment.

 

[msb45]

Bayonet??

In reading these posts ther seems to be a focus on the rifle. So what if it was loaded, had, blanks, or was emty? It had a bayonet on it, making it a deadly weapon. IMHO if the guy just had the bayonet in his hands it was a good shoot. Definitely tragic, but still justifiable. 21ft rule ring a bell with anyone here? I don't know what cops make in Seattle, but I do know it doesn't cover going hth against a blade.

There but for the grace of God go I.

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

Occam's Razor Vonderek.

What's more likely? The cops saw an innocent kid on new years eve and they both spontaneously had the idea that it would be fun to gun him down. And the be forced fill out paperwork for weeks after, undergo a very lengthly investigation, have nightmares about killing someone for the rest of their lives, have to go to therapy, and maybe even lose their jobs or go to jail?


Or that a college kid had a few too many drinks, pulled out his reenacting rifle, and started acting in an unsafe manner, and the because of alcohol and shock, froze and did not drop the weapon he was carrying when police order him to?


Conspiracy by the police to murder in front of witnesses, despite the years of consequence it would bring? Or a drunk college kid doing some stupid things and winding up in a bad situation with no good judgment or reaction time due to alcohol.


I don't know about anyone else, but I think I can pick the more likely one out of those scenarios. But then again, I don't happen to own any tin foil hats.

 

[notorious]

Sometimes not having a conspiracy to rally against or having a cop to blame their day on just wouldn't do for the people who aren't very self-fulfilled.

 

[makarovnik]

I have noticed an influx of tin foil hat comments lately.

Are we expecting to be invaded aliens (the extraterrestrial kind) or something?

 

[notorious]

The aliens are already here, you need special sunglasses to see them. Rowdy Roddy Piper had a pair. Also, MIB erases your memory so you wouldn't remember even if you had an encounter with one. Wake up and smell the coffee!