School me on progressive presses

[bensdad]

I've been reloading for a few years now on a single-stage (RCBS) press. I get how it works and am confident with the process. Time to step things up

Cabela's has the Lock-N-Load five station on sale for $380. Should I get that? Most of what I do is 9mm, 45acp, 38spl, 40s&w and some (but quite a bit less) rifle.

Should I get it?
Should I go with blue instead? Why?
Will all my components interchange (RCBS and Lee dies; shell holders from both)?

 

[MickKennedy29]

I have the LnL and have loaded extensively with a buddy's Dillon 650. In my personal opinion, I think you get more from the LnL for the money than you do with Dillon. My experiences with Hornady's customer service cannot be beat. I think all of the big reloading companies have great CS. I load primarily pistol on my LNL, and the caliber changes are faster on the LNL than they are on the 650. The primer feed system is better because it only spits out a new one when the last one has been used, unlike the 650 that spits one out every time no matter what. I think both powder measure systems are good, and my measure is spot on with almost every type of powder I have tried. Some are better than others, but I have not seen a powder thrower yet that can handle every powder with aplomb.

You can use anyone's dies. I use Lee, Hornady, Redding, and Lyman dies. The shellplates are NOT interchangeable, they are proprietary, so you must buy a Hornady shellplate for each caliber.

These are my opinions and I know others will disagree.

 

[MtnCreek]

I don't have a LNL, but I've heard really great things about them (that sounds like a great price too). I do have a few Dillons and they are great machines for their intended purpose. Changing out cal conversions on a 650 or 1050 is not worth it unless I have at least a few k to load. You listed 4 pistol cal's + some rifle, so get your check book out if you're going to by Dillon cal conv's / tool heads for everything you load. You'll also need a case feeder conv for you pistol rds. I'm not saying you shouldn't get a Dillon; just make sure that's what you want before purchasing.

 

[cfullgraf]

I reloaded on a single stage for 29 years before buying a progressive. Not that I needed the volume production, I wanted to try something new. Also, for handgun, I liked the idea that it eliminated case handling between resizing and mouth expanding as well as bullet seating and crimping. I prefer to crimp in a separate step.

I studied the Dillon 650 and the Hornady L-N-L for a along time before buying the Hornady. I prefer to clean my brass between resizing and reloading and the Hornady is more flexible in the regards.

I have found that I need to load large batches of ammunition, at least 300 to 500 rounds at a time, on the progressive for it to really improve efficiencies and rate over the single stage. I can load 100-200 rounds on a single stage press as fast or faster than on a progressive if you include set up and clean up time.

I recently bought a Dillon SDB to try out but have not built a stand for it yet. I may leave it set up for one caliber.

I did have to replace some of my older 1980s vintage dies for the Hornady L-N-L. They were too short.

 

[Baldy]

Dillon 650XL is the best press made for the home reloader. It does it all. Rifle,pistol,& revolver..

 

[k4swb]

I loaded on an RCBS single stage for many years. Last year I too was at the point that I was tired of pulling the handle 4 times plus priming for each round. I did a heck of a lot of research and found a few things different in the LNL and Dillons that made me go with the LNL. If you are used to a single stage press and doing everything except pulling the handle with your left hand, the LNL is the way to go. Without the bullet and case feeders you need to do alot of stuff on the Dillon with your right hand and this old dog didn't think he could learn that new trick. This may not sound like such a big deal to some but believe me after 30 years or so it gets difficult to retrain oneself.:banghead:

The powder systems are different and I like the drum type measures better, again probably because this is what I've used forever. Removing single dies from the machines is different with the LNL using the bushings and I liked this too.

Neither Dillon or the LNL use regular shell holders. They use shell plates and you would need the approiate one(s) for your cartridge(s) with either.

With all the Dillon shouting all the time I will probably always wonder if I would have been better off with a blue press but for now I am completely satisfied with the Hornady LNL AP.

 

[cfullgraf]

Without the bullet and case feeders you need to do alot of stuff on the Dillon with your right hand and this old dog didn't think he could learn that new trick. This may not sound like such a big deal to some but believe me after 30 years or so it gets difficult to retrain oneself.:banghead:

I am kind of the same way. It was not part of my Hornady L-N-L decision but worked out anyway.

i wonder how I will do when I get the Dillon SDB up and running. I already have a plan B in mind.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

I loaded on a RCBS Rock Chucker for nearly 20 years before moving to a progressive. Over those years, I studied all the different brands and never saw one that I thought was right for me. Sure, the Dillons work good and have a great warranty...However, it is my opinion that their great warranty is built into the initial purchase price...Finally, the L-N-L came along. I watched a pile of YouTube videos and decided it was for me. It cost me $385 and came with 1k free premium bullets to sweeten the deal. Set up was very easy. I have loaded many thousands of rounds with the L-N-L and can say nothing bad about it.

 

[mallc]

Red VS Blue

Short story is that no one press does everything well and you need to match the press with the task.

I have a 6 year old 650 with case feed I bought new. I have complete tool heads with PM and alarms for each caliber but I don't change it over for less that 1000 rounds. I have not had to tinker with anything other than switching primer seaters since I first set it up.

I also have a couple of LNL APs (one large primer and one small primer) to load smaller batches . The LNL is far easier to change over and I don't think twice of switching for 100 rounds. Every once it a while I have to tinker with the timing prawls but with the 1000 free bullet deal they had a couple of years ago, I could by 3 for the price of a new 650 and that's what It did.

I think the LNL-AP is probably a better deal than the 550B but doesn't come close to a 650.

If you load less than 100 rounds of one caliber at a time, you don't really need a progressive.

Scott

 

[greyling22]

horrors to even suggest this I know, but I've had pretty good luck with the lee pro1000. I really really like the case feeder and not having to fill primer tubes. Lots of people report problems with the primer system, but I haven't had any issues yet.

If you don't need to crank out hundreds of rounds at a time I really like the turret press. Lots faster than a single stage, for me at least, easier to set up than a progressive, super easy to change calibers.

 

[[email protected]]

I also have the lnl ap and I like it. I have only loaded a couple thousand rounds with it so far. It is easy for caliber change over even if changing between large and small primer rounds. ldont forget hornady is still offering the 500 free bullets

 

[Jim Watson]

Bunch'a young whippersnappers.
In 1978 I bought a CH AutoCHamp straight line progressive because a Star cost too much.
Some upstart name of Dillon was just getting into reloading by converting Stars for rifle calibers.
I still have the CH but don't know if I will set it back up when I move into the new house and shop. Its straightline advance is very finicky to adjust, its powder measure is cam operated and will spill powder if the station is empty. But it has a more positive primer feed than Dillon. Might still be easier just to assemble a D550 head for .38 Special than to clean and adjust the old machine.

 

[EddieNFL]

Have red and blue on my benches. Both have served me well. If I could keep only one it would be blue.

 

[BYJO4]

That is a good price on the Hornady press. I bought my LNL AP last November after much debate over it or the Dillon. Both are excellent presses. The Hornady has proved to be perfect for me and I have no regrets. I load for all the calibers you indicated and can change from one to another in 5 minutes or less.

 

[bensdad]

Thanks to all. I'm gonna go with the lnl.

 

[Magoo]

Happy with my LNL. I don't think you'll be disappointed.

 

[45ACPUSER]

The LNL AP will nickel and dime you for stuff that comes standard....
Go blue and go to the Gunstop and get yourself a 550B.....never look back!

 

[ColtPythonElite]

What stuff does a LNL nickel and dime you for?

 

[Lost Sheep]

Be specific, please.

45ACPUSER
The LNL AP will nickel and dime you for stuff that comes standard....
Go blue and go to the Gunstop and get yourself a 550B.....never look back!

I have heard the same thing about Dillon presses.

But neither source went into specifics about what items were missing that "nickeled and dimed" the owner.

Got specifics?

I hate "hidden costs" whether it is on a car I negotiated a price on, a vacuum cleaner, restaurant meal or a loading press.

Lost Sheep

 

[tooltech]

The LNL AP will nickel and dime you for stuff that comes standard....
Go blue and go to the Gunstop and get yourself a 550B.....never look back!

Care to elaborate? The only thing I needed to add to my LnL was a shellplate, and a set of dies.

 

[cfullgraf]

In my opinion, neither Hornady or Dillon "nickel and dime" you.

But, it can get expensive with both buying extra pieces to make a cartridge change over quick and easy.

For my L-N-L I have L-N-L bushings for every die, powder drop dies for each cartridge, and powder measure inserts for each cartridge. I load 8 different cartridges on the Hornady. I got a chunk of change in my Hornady change parts box.

I am in the process of starting up a Dillon SDB. I purchased a cartridge change kit including the powder measure so I could load two different cartridges. Kind of wished i had just bought a second complete press kit for the small extra cost over the price of the cartridge change stuff.

So, you can drop a fair amount of money buying extras for either brand.

 

[BigJakeJ1s]

I ran the numbers, using Hornady parts (except for the RCBS powder lock-out die) from Midway, and Dillon parts from Dillon for pricing, including maximum advantage from Dillon's kits where possible.

Absolute minimum, no-frills caliber change-over, assuming you cannot re-use shell plates, expanders, buttons, etc. Note this does not include bushings or tool heads, so you'd be screwing dies in and out to change them. Includes dies for 45 ACP (incl separate crimp die)

AP: $93
550: $108
650: $140

If you do the complete, no-adjustments-needed change over, including tool heads/bushings, pre-adjusted PM/insert & powder dies, the differences get bigger:

AP: $154
550: $207
650: $240

Finally, if you want a powder alarm/lockout (not practical on the 550) the differences are even bigger:

AP: $201
650: $310

While the AP and 550 are close in initial cost, if you want to reload more than one caliber, the differences add up rather quickly in favor of the AP. Comparisons based on cost alone disregard the functional advantages of the AP over the 550. A true comparison is more appropriate between the 650 and the AP.

Here is a well-written comparison of progressive presses from Dillon (650), Hornady (LNL AP) and Lee:

http://www.comrace.ca/cmfiles/dillonLeeHornadyComparison.pdf

Andy

 

[kludge]

^^^ I was just going to post that link.

I have a Lee. Works fine. No problems, just keep it fed with primers. And I got all the caliber changeover stuff for ALL of the calibers I want to load on the progressive for less than 1 caliber for the LNL-AP.

I don't shoot 1000 rounds a week, or even in 6 months, so I don't need "max-speed".

Don't let people tell you the Lee LoadMaster is too hard to set up or that you're constantly tweaking things. Setup, once you do it a few times and understand how it works, takes just a few minutes. If you have a Pro Auto-Disk ($35) for every caliber then you don't even have to mess with setting up the powder measure. I only have one, but I don't shoot enough to justify two... well maybe I could justify two.

Spend a few extra bucks (it's not like it's that much to begin with) and buy the universal decapper die for each caliber (or don't, and setup will take and extra 30 seconds to unscrew and rescrew the die into the other turret), and by pulling the decapper out of the sizing die and there are "no problems" with the priming on the LoadMaster - the sizing die holds the case in position for trouble-free priming.

Changing from small to large primers takes about a two minutes, and no tools.
Changing the shell plate takes a minute or less. No extra time if you had to change primer size.
Changing calibers takes a minute or less.
Hooking up the chain back up for the powder measure takes 30 seconds.

If you change calibers like I do, and load as many rounds as I do (200 or less in a sitting usually) it's not even worth the time to hook up the case feeder. If I were loading more than that I would probably hook it up. Probably the most I would load at one sitting or changing calibers would be 500 rounds.

In fact it might be cheaper to buy a LoadMaster for every caliber you own than to buy a Dillon 650 and the all the tool heads.

 

[mallc]

Not fair comparison.

I ran the numbers, using Hornady parts (except for the RCBS powder lock-out die) from Midway, and Dillon parts from Dillon for pricing, including maximum advantage from Dillon's kits where possible.

Dillon website prices are twice Graph's price for the same item. Yes, I bought my Dillon and my LNL AP's from Graf's. Item for item, its a wash. Dillion's have better bells and whistles and they cost more. But there is no nicl\kle and dime with either.

Scott

 

[EddieNFL]

Don't let people tell you the Lee LoadMaster is too hard to set up or that you're constantly tweaking things.

Only folks I heard say that were Lee owners.