Shooting from Ambush

[conw]

Hi,

This is kind of a crazy-sounding topic. But I'm curious about some things:

1) Would you ever shoot from ambush under any circumstances?

2) If so, please include why. (SHTF is seemingly a valid reason, but please elaborate. I don't want this to be a SHTF thread)

3) Tactics for justified shoots of this type, please. I know criminals ambush cops all the time, and it doesn't take a lot of guts or know-how to hide and shoot someone in the back. With that in mind, please tell me after answering 1 and 2 a little bit about tactics.

I want to think this out to have another tool in my toolbox. I really liked the pepper spray thread recently that discussed lethal force vs criminal armed with pepper spray. Thinking through it helped me make my mind up about what I would do.

Disclaimer: This thread is for entertainment and educational purposes only. The original poster does not request nor expect that anyone who replies via The High Road forum be truthful or realistic. The purpose and intent of the original poster are not to discuss anything that has actually happened nor anything that will actually happen.

 

[Fred Fuller]

The original poster does not request nor expect that anyone who replies via The High Road forum be truthful or realistic.

But the moderator does expect individual best efforts towards truth and realism in anything posted in S&T, the OP's disclaimer notwithstanding.

Anything other than that, and this one needs to go to APS. It isn't far from being closed right now, and if it is not kept real and not kept High Road, it will be locked.

I probably ought to lock it anyway, just on GP, but I want to see if anyone can come with a legitimate explanation for justifying a defensive ambush...

lpl/nc

 

[Harpo]

You come home to find wife and kids being held at gunpoint. Perps don't see you arrive.

Bang.

Bang bang.

 

[ilbob]

I might buy its a legitimate tactic in some kind of wild scenario where you are being chased by a lot of BGs and can't get away, but do have some opportunity to thin out the herd.

Its not that rare as a police or crook tactic.

 

[SLAKLINE]

1st = Free Speech.
2nd= Defending the 1st if necessary.


Now on to the topic:

Ambush would be my preferred method of engagement.

Ambush from an elevated position with quick exit capability.

Hit and run guerilla tactics.

Longer engagements would result in failure unless the threat is impaired or eliminated on initial contact and even if the threat is stopped, I'm not sticking around to long to see who shows up. Gather up any needed supplies and get the heck out !

 

[K5mitch]

Heck, plenty of home defense scenarios can be defined as an ambush.

Take the classic 2-level house forced entry as an example. Most people would state they would take a position at the top of the stairs.

This situation is an ambush.

 

[boilingleadbath]

Eh, in general terms, I can only see a ambush as a justifiable defensive tactic if:

1) You cannot run
2) You cannot hide
3) You are able to set up an ambush

Eh, an example?
<strike>Well, let's say your in a mall when a whole bunch of zombies pop up and start closing in on your position. Naturally, it'd be best to fall back to a blind corridor so that their numbers count for nothing.</strike>

Oh, sorry, reality...
Well, you must be in a situation where you cannot run. Perhaps this means that they have motor vehicles.
But you must not be able to hide, which means a simple landscape. Probably not an urban environment.
And you must be able to get away and stage the ambush. I suppose this means that they are not near their motor vehicles, or that you have a head start.

Stating things specifically, I could envision a scenario where "they" (indeed, they, or there's no need for an ambush) come after you in an open environment, and you are able to run and hide behind something without them realizing it. So you are able to get them in the side as they run past.

Thus providing a moment of confusion as they are surprised by the direction (and existence) of your firearm's discharge.

Such a situation is a tad contrived, and sounds more like a tactical use of concealment than an ambush.

So, eh, let's try again. This time, there are TWO of you.
You tell your buddy to hang back 100 feet.
If a group of men does something bad, you have a buddy 100 feet away who can drop to prone and do something.
I'm not sure if this is legitimate. If you do end up having to fight, the whole "Yeah, I set up an ambush" thing might not play out so well in court. Maybe if you consistently employ this formation, and can prove it, it should be ok.
I'm not as well versed on defense law as I'd like to be.

 

[usmcpmi]

Any time you want to prevail...Strike hard, and finish the job. If it is you or them I choose life over the eternal dirt nap. If things ever get that bad, there most likely won't be a jury of your peers available. Just my 2ct. MG

 

[Robby]

What comes to mind, in this senario, is if the people from the large towns near my area, have no food, fuel, heat, or water supply. They would come to the rural area's looking for supplies, (possibly armed groups trying to do the best for their family's)!

We are in the situation of having those supplies, among several farms that tend to stick together. If armed groups tried to enter our area's, I can see the ambush being a way to keep my family and group in one piece and able to live thru the bad times.

A face to face confrontation would lead to our group being depleted due to the armed group invading us, and wounding or killing some of us. So the use of the arms we have, and location with the ability to cover most approach's without being seen first, ambush would be the way to go.

As this would be a time when LE, and govt operations were mostly non existent, then we would be on our own and do what was necessary to survive. No we would not go out looking for them, but if they enter the fenced area's they are no longer just looking, they are invading with possible intent to do harm.

 

[TallPine]

Heck, plenty of home defense scenarios can be defined as an ambush.

Take the classic 2-level house forced entry as an example. Most people would state they would take a position at the top of the stairs.

This situation is an ambush.

Exactly

Unless you are going to reveal yourself in the interest of making it a "fair fight"

 

[Picard]

Well, ambushing is a force multiplier. That split second of confusion will allow you to effectively engage a greater number of enemies without the added risk of being shot at. You have to act quickly, because your position will be compromised within a couple of seconds.

Playing paintball, I have used ambush tactics often to surprise and take out the unsuspecting. If you act quickly and get the other players out, your position might not even be compromised, allowing you to lay in wait for another person.

 

[loneviking]

Did you see the video of the New Orleans cop taking on three armed robbers? He waited, knowing that at least one of 'em was going to go for the safe. He lined himself up so that the BG wouldn't immedietly realize that he was armed. This is an ambush, and a very good reason to do so. When there are multiple BG's, get one or more close to you so you can even the odds quickly.

 

[qwert65]

I don't think waiting in wait for someone in your home and shooting them when they appear is ambush. Thats defense. When soilders dig in and attack advancing troops, thats just defense.

An ambush would be waiting on the highway to your house and shooting anyone who entered your property

 

[K5mitch]

How is laying in wait on a roadway, versus a stairwell different?

The only difference I see on a "tactical" level is scale and size.

 

[rainbowbob]

I want to see if anyone can come with a legitimate explanation for justifying a defensive ambush...

As others have already pointed out, there are many circumstances that might justify a "defensive ambush". There is certainly no reason why a homeowner should be expected to "play fair" in the event of an invasion.

My basic plan for if/when I hear a crash-bang and the dog going off is to head for the bedroom (if we're not already there), send the wife into the bathtub with a cell-phone, and take up a position behind the bed with my firearm trained on the bedroom door. If it opens...surprise!

 

[Fred Fuller]

Well, that didn't last very long.

I haven't deleted or edited any posts on this thread, BTW. If we could have left off the SHTF and zombie stuff... but no.

So there ya go...

lpl/nc