Shopping in a convience Store, armed robbery happens, what do you do...

[Titan6]

I'd shoot him.

In the back several times preferably if I have a clear shot and if not move till I did. If he was pointing at the clerk I might try to draw his attention first so that he was not pointing at the clerk.

I am not a mind reader and have no way of knowing his intent or mindstate, only that he using deadly force to commit a crime. I can also guess that he will continue doing so until he kills someone or is sent to prison. I have absolutely no qualms whatsoever either because next time... he might just have the gun pointed at someone I do care about. Letting the bad guys run around free when you have the power to stop it is simply a bad idea.

 

[ScottyT]

Get the hell out of dodge and call 911. If I can't get out, find a defensible position and have pistol at the ready, if he threatens my life he's in big trouble. The convenient store is insured.

If the armed robber were beating or raping the clerk, instead of just pulling a good old fashioned stick-up, that would probably change my response.

 

[ZeSpectre]

same note I always make....
Be sure to watch out for the perp's backup.

 

[Grey_Mana]

The maximum criminal penalty for armed robbery isn't death. I might shoot somebody because I have to, but that's no form of justice, and the criminal doesn't 'have it coming'. Every situation is different, but I can't imagine me shooting somebody not intending to harm anybody.

On a separate note, how much of a hassle will it be if you slip out of a store with your handgun drawn, as the police are pulling up? That's better than many alternatives, but would still be crap.

 

[Titan6]

same note I always make....
Be sure to watch out for the perp's backup.

Agreed. I don't know enough about stick-up men to assume he has backup but it always safe to assume he has someone. Of course unless there is some strong emotional bond between them, seeing his partner go down might encourage him/her to seek safer enviorns....

 

[Titan6]

The maximum criminal penalty for armed robbery isn't death.

I am not sure what your point is. People die every day deserving or not. If you choose to live by the gun, you can expect to die by the gun. It really is that simple.

 

[ilbob]

The maximum criminal penalty for armed robbery isn't death.

Maybe it should be.

 

[Thernlund]

Guy robs store clerk at gun-point.

Assuming...

A) I can reasonably say that the weapon is real (I imagine alot of us are pretty good at identifying weapons in a blink)...

B) My judgement tells me he is in such a state where he could shoot the clerk...

C) He is not focused on me...

I draw and shoot. Head shot if possible, or doubletap body shot.

Depending on the various shades of gray involved, I may shout out a warning before hand. Maybe avoid the shoot if I'm lucky.

If I hid out and the guy shot the clerk, I'm not sure I could live with that (knowing I could have done something and didn't).


-T.


EDIT:

The maximum criminal penalty for armed robbery isn't death.

A defensive shooting, even in defense of another, is not a criminal penalty.

 

[Parapacker]

I would probably hold him at gunpoint. If he flinched I would shoot him.

Citizens may not have a duty to act, but crimes will continue to be perpetrated against the innocent until they know we are armed and fighting back.

 

[Travis Lee]

I'm no "sheepdog" either. (and I HATE that term)

And I'm a big fan of not getting involved in trouble which doesn't belong to me.

But if I'm in a confined space like a CS, and faced with some goon either aiming a gun at people or waving it around, I'm taking that as a deadly threat to me, PERSONALLY.

It is foolhardy to assume that a robber is "rational", that he will be satisfied with what's in the till, rather than demanding the cashier open the safe, or freak out when someone new walks in the door, or just start shooting because he gets the urge.

We see on TV and Youtube every week, new examples of robberies which "go bad", or which seemed to end in murder because that was the plan from the start.

Slinking out the locked back door, may not be a viable option.

 

[GEM]

HSO had a great list:

You have no obligation to protect anyone.
You have to decide if the BG is a serious threat or using a weapon for intimidation.
You have to decide if you are able to deal with the consequences of being wrong in your decision about whether the BG is just using the weapon for intimidation.
You have to decide if you are able to deal with the consequences of killing the BG.

I would like to add in a cold blooded way:

You have to decide if you are willing to take the risk to your life to save another who is not immediate to you.

You have to decide that the disruption to your family's life is worth if if your attempt to fight for another goes awry.

There is a typical assumption in all this internet discussions that the internet poster can win the fight, not miss, beat up the bad guys, etc. Maybe, maybe not.

That's why FOF training is worthwhile - run through a bunch of scenarios and see all the interesting nuances.

 

[hso]

I would probably hold him at gunpoint.

Your objective is to preserve life not to take on the role of LE. Every moment you attempt to hold a dangerous criminal puts you and others in greater danger as they become more panicked about wanting to get away. Do not try to detain anyone in such a situation. If you must shoot to protect someone's life, shoot, but don't pull you weapon for any other reason.

What do you do if they don't believe you'll shoot to detain them? Do you shoot them as they walk away and go to prison for murder?

 

[ilbob]

I'm no "sheepdog" either. (and I HATE that term)

The sheepdog analogy is fairly apt if you remember that it is sometimes necessary for the shepherd to kill the sheepdog when it starts attacking the sheep, which is not unheard of.

 

[Titan6]

There is a typical assumption in all this internet discussions that the internet poster can win the fight, not miss, beat up the bad guys, etc. Maybe, maybe not.

This is an excellent point. You need to make a realisitic assesment of your abilities. If you are not capable than being involved may cause more harm than good.

 

[M1911]

There is a typical assumption in all this internet discussions that the internet poster can win the fight, not miss, beat up the bad guys, etc. Maybe, maybe not.

+1

You may not be as good as you think you are. You may not see his backup. He may just get lucky. Mr. Murphy attends most such situations.

The best technique to survive a shootout is to be somewhere else.

 

[Parapacker]

If you dont believe you are capable, then perhaps you shouldnt be carrying a gun.

You are theoretically going up against a teenage gang banger or meth addict, not a member of Seal Team 6. While they average tweaker is still deadly, I would hope a trained and armed citizen would be capable of handling the assistance.

I guess if not, our only choice is to sit and cower in a corner sucking our collective thumbs while waiting for the Jeff White Gestapo to lock step in and save us. Sorry for the run on sentence.

 

[Big Del]

No wonder criminals aren't scared, so thirty dollars isn't enough. At what dollar amount do you step in. If only one person is being attacked or robbed is that not enough there needs to be more people getting hurt, maybe you have a neighbor beating his wife he only hits her sometimes, why step in it's not my fight. I wonder why LAC's don't feel the need to step in help out fellow LAC's, know wonder why BG's aren't scared why should they be. I would hope if I came across this kind of situation with or with my CCP on me I would step in. No sit back get on the computer and tell everyone why I didn't or shouldn't do anything.

 

[GEM]

I've been 'shot' in a few FOF robberys. Some of them drew blood from Sims or close in airsoft. Bruises, too.

As a 'robber' in some, I've also 'shot' the good guy. Greg Hamilton said in Street and Vehicle Tactics that a major hauling of butt is a viable procedure. It all depends.

BTW, in that class - Greg was covered by an advanced student. Greg was the BG and drew and shot the GG repeatedly. The GG was making a speech about putting your hands up, blah, blah.

 

[Dope]

I think a lot of it depends on where you live too. If I shot a simple convenience store robber here in MA I'd probably go to jail.

I bought a gun(s) for the protection of myself and my loved ones. I didn't buy one so I could play pretend-a-cop.

Having said that, I don't think there is any right-or-wrong answer to the OP's question. Depends on the situation.

Dope

 

[Titan6]

You may not be as good as you think you are.

Few people are.

But you just have to be good enough. Being good enough is always okay. It normally comes out that any situtation that is resolved with a positive outcome could nearly always have been handled better anyway.

I would disagree with parapacker however. I know of plenty of people who carry who could not handle that situation including people in wheelchairs and others nearly blind. Just because they do not have full faculties does not mean they do not have right to defend themselves.

 

[ZeSpectre]

Awww c'mon Titan6, you KNOW I'm as good as I think I am...at least I think I am <grin>.

 

[ilbob]

I guess if not, our only choice is to sit and cower in a corner sucking our collective thumbs while waiting for the Jeff White Gestapo to lock step in and save us.

Why you picking on Jeff? If you have a specific disagreement with him, you can state it in a way that is less offensive. He is an adult and can take it. And will probably tell you why he thinks you are wrong in a firm but inoffensive way.

Ever hear of Godwin's law? Look it up some day.

 

[Leanwolf]

XDKINGSLAYER - "Nice to know I can't count on any of you if I ever become a store clerk..."

Why wouldn't you take it upon yourself to be responsible for yourself?? Why would you instead "depend on the kindness of strangers" who DO take it upon themselves to be responible for their own safety and well being??

A stranger is not obligated to protect you, when you refuse to protect yourself.

L.W.

 

[FCFC]

If you dont believe you are capable, then perhaps you shouldnt be carrying a gun.

There is no requirement of high level of capability for the right to carry a gun.

Anyone who meets the local qualifications can tote a gun in the allowed manner at the allowed locations. Your definition of "capable" is not relevant.

Your suggestion that some of us give up our right to carry a firearm because of some home-cooked-up standard of capability gets you into very close proximity to the Brady Buncher mentality....

In the OP's scenario, if possible to do it unseen by the robber I would slowly draw my gun and activate the CTC grip pointing down. Then I would look for the exit and use it if possible. If I cannot exit, then I would wait on the robber, finding the best available cover. If my phone is set so that the numbers are read aloud, I won't dial 911. If he is an in and out guy, then it will be over in a very few seconds. If the robber shoots, I see if all my point shooting practice will have done any good.

 

[Parapacker]

ibob, why are you standing up for Jeff? According to many people in this thread you should hide behind the potato chips! It is interesting that you would step forward to defend somebody you dont know instead of turning a blind eye!