SHTF happens and people start showing up at your house . . .

[Kindrox]

Something happens and people start showing up at your house . . .

Another thread I read triggered a conversation with the wife a few nights ago. Our mindset is not that TEOTWAWKI is coming or that SHTF is certain, only that there is a substantial non-zero chance of some disruption of one kind or other and to be prepared accordingly.

We live in the city with a modest sized house. To this end we keep 25 gallons of gas, 40 gallons of water, building supplies to cover windows and the like, and we are building towards having a solid month of food independent of the electrical grid. Security measures outside include a 8-foot concrete fence surrounding most of the house, heavy steel gate, good alarm system, outside lights, ect. We don’t intend to move and I am not shy of work, so we have really made the house solid as we can.

The concrete fence alone always evokes comments along the lines of “If something happens I am coming to your house”. If something major did happen, and safety and/or food were in short supply, I can easily see people picking up and coming over. This ranges from the inlaws and wife’s nair-do-well brother, to some close friends, some neighbors, and just general friends. Plus how many people I don’t even know might feel “invited over” by the above list.

I don’t mind the close friends coming over. They probably will be assets, as there is a reason we have chosen them as close friends. My thoughts on the rest of them, even the inlaws, are not exactly good. We have food for a month, for two. For twelve people I would have food for a week or less. The gas is in case we need to get somewhere, not “I need to check on the neighbor’s cat but I am low on gas, can you spot me some?”

Basically I figure that having the wrong people inside your circle during SHFT can be worse than being openly attacked from the outside, if you know what I mean. My inlaws and several “friends” currently criticize us for being prepared. Of course during trouble they will probably stop the criticism (for a while) of the actual preparations, but I expect them to just move the criticism to a new area. I.e. disagree with how we choose to use the preps, whine about firearms at the ready, roll the eyes about watching the outside for trouble, ect. Basically the same things that makes some people stupid before trouble I figure will make them dang near impossible during trouble. If being a little prepared brings all the freeloaders to my door, its almost counter productive to be prepared.

My question is, has anyone actively tried to discourage people’s thoughts of coming over, before actual trouble? It seems a little odd to say to a “Your ok as an acquaintance but if trouble happens, don’t come over here” but it is kind of what comes to mind when some people make the “if trouble comes I am coming to your house” comment.

We do try to keep a low profile, but in today’s city world, having any sort of food/water supply, or having any kind of physical safety measures makes you stick out like a flashing neon sign to anyone who comes to the house, and we are not going to let a possibility of SHFT control our lives to where we don’t let anyone come over.

 

[fletcher]

Basically I figure that having the wrong people inside your circle during SHFT can be worse than being openly attacked from the outside, if you know what I mean.

Very much so. Prior to S H'ing the F, you should probably communicate politely to those individuals that this setup is for you and yours, not them and theirs. Explain that you cannot afford or account for a setup to protect everyone you know. Maybe you can teach them a little about what to set up for their own good.

Personally, I wouldn't even think about letting someone stay with me in a real SHTF situation unless I could trust said individual with my life, and was at least fairly knowledgeable and competent with survival skills and firearms use. Family would be the exception.

 

[velojym]

Yeah, if you can, educate them as best you can, and if they still laugh... then it's the peanut gallery watching the Ark depart.

We have some concern about the New Madrid fault going, and have the occasional tornado. there's also the Arkansas River, though we're on high ground. I think we're pretty well placed, and most of the folks in our neighborhood are working folks who also hunt. So, we're better off than we were downtown.
Heck, some of our neighbors are better prepped than we are, and probably without really thinking about SHTF.

 

[AndyC]

"I'm sorry, I don't have enough for both my family and yours - but I'd be happy to help you work out what you need to get."

 

[LoneStranger]

Maybe you should look at one of your preparations as being the quiet, gentle, questioning of various individuals as to what kind of preparations they are making for SHTF situations.

Depending on your locale you might start by asking how they are planning on handling fire, flood, industrial accident and if they have any ideas on potential hazards in the area. Their response should give you a good idea as to how to proceed with them.

Ultimately you have to realize that best long term survival situation is when you are in a group/community that is interested in the same thing you are. Finding that group/community is the bear.

 

[vynx]

My approach is more of an "of course you are welcome to come but, you MUST bring your own supplies, food, firearm, ammo, tent, water, sanitation needs, etc." because I can not afford to stock up for you - my family uses and needs all the resources I have available.

If they don't like it - I am not too shy to say stay the blank away and lock the gate.

Seriously, think what 12 people would do if there was an earthquake and the plumbing (no water) did not work! I don't want that mess in my yard to clean up afterwards.

 

[DogBonz]

I have given this some thought on ocassion

Most of my friends and family have a similar mind set as I do. The majority of them own at least one rifle, shot gun, or pistol, but it is hard for many of them to consider the other side of coin which I consider to be fresh water, food that will not spoil easily, extra gasoline, medical supplies, etc. Now I am not totally stocked up in all of these areas but I know that my supplies (food and water) will last 7-8 days for the Ms. and myself. You add one or two more people to that and supplies will run out in probably 2-3 days, if not sooner.

But I have friends and acquaintances the will say “man if the S ever hits the F, I’m coming to your house”. I always reply; “well, you will be all by your self, because I’ll be long gone”. Now it is not really my attention to bug out, but a lot of my friends know that I, along with my family have a place to go, so they believe that I will not be at my home should the SHTF.

I am also blessed to have some very close friends who lived through Katrina and Andrew and take SHTF preparation very seriously. I have been told by them that if the SHTF, that I am welcome at their house as long as I bring my rifle and some ammo.

 

[CWL]

The fallback position is my parents' house, good position which other people don't need to know about.

Most people know that I'm probably better prepared than they are if we ever suffer a major earthquake or similar catastrophe here in CA.

Of the few people that I trust can take care of themselves and be helpful, I have already invited in case of emergency.

Others who have asked me, I have told them that they won't be allowed to tag along and I will shoot them. This is said in jest but with enough truthfulness that people never ask me again.

 

[mainmech48]

In addition to what vynx suggested, run this one by them and see how they react.

Explain the concept of "Lifeboat Rules" and the consequences for violating same. If they blanche, argue, or look incredulous - walk away and keep the gate locked.

Cynical and cruel of me perhaps, but folks who can't or won't make the effort to provide emergency contingencies for themselves and their own and yet expect those who did to provide for them aren't likely to be anything but a deadly liability in this sort of situation.

 

[ArfinGreebly]

People Showing Up

. . . and people start showing up at your house . . .

Given that where I live, there's a fairly low likelihood of fan-hitting, my most likely scenario is, in fact, people showing up.

Our town does have some flood-vulnerable homes, but not a majority. Our town has little direct seismic activity. Ditto civil unrest. Our community is very low on the "likely to have a disaster" list.

Our most likely thing is a heavy snow/ice storm (once every few years) that takes out the power for more than a few days. The worst storm we ever had didn't accomplish that. Second to that is the occasional local wildfire that can cause road closures or evacuations.

If the Bay Area has an event, if Sacramento floods, if any one of several Northern California areas has something stoopid happen, we could have refugees come over the hill and need some kind of relief.

This could overwhelm local infrastructure (at least temporarily) and lead to a breakdown of manners.

We could find ourselves cut off from supplies, and the stores could run low on, or out of, certain essentials.

Among our friends and acquaintances, only a small handful know we're armed or have reserve supplies. To most of them, I've extended an open invitation to join us at our place should the need arise. They've made us the same offer.

My primary worry is that, should things really break down, we could have a level of desperation among the "grasshopper" population, looking to avail themselves of what the "ants" have put by. To that end, I need to establish better relations with more of my neighbors.

The "lone man with a rifle" model doesn't work so well on mobs. The "armed neighborhood" model works better there.

Organization trumps individual ability.

Yes, have reserves and tools.

But more importantly, have some kind of organization.

Have friends.

Have a plan.

Without those, even a badly organized pack will eventually out-maneuver or out-last you.

 

[MudPuppy]

I've had a couple of folks jokes mentioned about folks coming my way "when it gets bad".

I always reply with a grin "Well, I have to feed the dog something."

And then I add,

"But seriously, I'll have my hands full taking care of my own family--you should think about how you're going to take care of yours in a Katrina type situation."

Of course, that is only words and life's good, so I don't expect them to do a whole lot. But the unprepared won't be welcome.

 

[Kindrox]

The thing with these people is you really cannot get anywhere with them. Most of the people we come in contact with appear to “admire” our work but have zero appetite for doing a single thing for themselves. The potential for SHTF is not really “real” to them.

Most of these people making the comment are not looking to change their lifestyle, but just making the mental note “If trouble, go to his house”. With anyone but close friends I generally don’t get into why we have what we have. It seems (in many people’s minds) that the only real difference between a guy who lives a little different to a nutcase is just the reason behind why your lifestyle is a little different.

As for finding like minded people in DFW, it seems nearly impossible. I have run into a few people who largely live out of an SUV and are out training each weekend for hand-to-hand combat or out doing night maneuvers, i.e. the really hard core, and there are millions of the idiots, but I don’t find to many folks thinking and then acting on a more middle road. I know there are a few out there, but I guess we all are pretty good a fitting in as best we can.

 

[Bubbles]

I have a ready answer for the folks who state that they're coming over if SHTF. I just smile and tell them that we'll need house-sitters since we won't be there; we'll have packed our stuff and headed to our bunker.

 

[Navy joe]

I hope the thread you read was this one: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=153978&highlight=preacherman+katrina

People invite themselves to all sorts of social functions these days, don't expect your disaster to be any different.

 

[Fred Fuller]

Before getting in too deep here, anyone interested in this topic needs to read the existing thread at http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=153978 , which offers an excellent recounting of real-life events .

IF you have something new, fresh and not already covered there (and that might be a pretty big IF) to contribute here, go ahead. Ten more pages of re-hashing what's already been hashed is not going to cut it though (OK, sorry, bad pun). I'd also suggest not using those particular four letters in a thread title here at S&T, they tend to be highly prejudicial and are far too apt to attract the wrong kind of attention.

lpl/nc

 

[davinci]

There's no mention in the Good Book about Noah taking his friends on the ark, only his sons and their wifes.

 

[W.E.G.]

When people say stupid stuff like, "I'm coming over..." I just tell them I need their ATM card and PIN number RIGHT NOW so I can start stocking up on supplies for them "just in case" they actually make it to my house.

Then they give me a blank look.

Then I ask them whether I should treat them any different than any other looter.

They can figure it out from there.

 

[30 cal slob]

Basically I figure that having the wrong people inside your circle during SHFT can be worse than being openly attacked from the outside, if you know what I mean.

Well, when life gives you lemons, make lemonade.

There's a silver lining in every cloud.

If you have the "wrong" people in your circle during SHTF, then enhance your survivability by bopping them over the head with a club (save ammo!) and eat them (raw = conserve fuel). Take care that you do this promptly, else they might resort to anti-zombie tactics.

 

[Mainsail]

Maybe?

Prepare a written list of items each person needs to contribute in order for them to find sanctuary at your home. Allow them to store their supplies at your place (hey, if they get rubbed out enroute, there’s more for you). If they balk, let them know they will not be welcome as you simply cannot afford to stock supplies for them.

If nothing else, it will get them thinking about their own survival and vulnerabilities.

 

[DonP]

We went through a lot of this same thinking in the '50's and early '60's with the cold war and bomb shelters. Right up to the Cuban Missile Crisis in '62 when we all thought the missiles would be flying any minute and my Dad started quietly stocking up on food and water in the basement, bought some big sheets oif 4 x 8 CDX plywood, and a big pile of sand for sandbags to stack on the sheets over windows and such.

There are even a couple of good episodes of Twilight Zone that cover what happens to the neighbors when the sirens go off, after they made fun of you for years about your bomb shelter.

My family knows where to go and what to do. We have thought out most of the likely to improbable "what-ifs" in extremis.

I guess taking in others would depend heavily on how they approached us and whether I thought they would be an asset or a liability (have they ever had any training, are they "demanding" admittance or will they follow orders, are they bringing any supplies or assets we need, medical care, fuel, extra food etc.?)

Don't know in my heart if I could ever turn away children in need and live with myself.

I pray that none of us ever have to make those kinds of choices and all this just stays an philisophical internet debate.

 

[kungfuhippie]

I've got a very good supply of food and water and shovels to dig a well (33'+/- in the back yard) ammo, gasoline, and a bugout kit. MY primary kit has 72 hrs. of supplies to get me back home. Where the major supplies are. If it is a EOTWAWKI situation where staying at the KFH fortress is not an option the supplies will be loaded into the pickup and my car (hatchback=more room in back) and we will head out to an secret location that I do not share with anyone. It is far enough out of the way/middle of nowhere that we would be able to hide out there for a very long time until normalicy returned. If unprepared friends showed up due to my preparedness they would be welcome to come if they fit in one of the two loaded cars. Otherwise they would not. If it was not a get out of dodge situation we have enough food to last 4 people over 1 year (if a well is dug) so they would be able to stay if we so chose. It will depend on the situation more than the friend.

 

[XLMiguel]

Lessons learned-
1. Chance favors the prepared mind - have a plan.
2. Those who fail to plan, plan to fail.
3. Have a back-up plan.

Some people will never 'get it', but they will turn on you from their laziness, you definitely don't want them 'inside the wire'. Example: back when we lived in VA, we had a warm burglary on our street on New Year's Eve. Fortunately, now one was hurt, but a bunch of stuff was taken. Several of our bliss-ninney neighbors who had questioned why I needed a gun or made fun of my firearms hobby suddenly wanted to 'borrow' some protection. Of course I wasn't about to loan out a firearm, but I did offer to take each one shooting, hook them up with training, etc. No takers.

As they say, you can lead a whore to culture, but you can't make her think, and sometimes, you just gotta let Natural Selection do its thing.

 

[Hardware]

My co-workers know I am a gun owner and they joke that they are all coming to my house "when the zombies rise". My response is; "Bring your deed. I'll trade one gun for one deed. Heck, I'll even throw in ammo."

Seriously, My short list of who gets on the island is very short indeed. And nobody gets on without bringing something besides a hungry belly.

 

[Zundfolge]

First thing to do is not talk about your preparations. You can't do anything about them seeing the fence, but if you tell them you've been storing water/food/gas/ammo then they'll be more likely to show up.

Second thing is to not talk about what you plan on doing during a SHTF situation. If it never happens then you just made enemies by saying "when the balloon goes up you're not invited to survive". No sense in making it an issue when there's a chance that it'll never happen. Better that your relationship end with these various people when they show up at your gate and are turned away.

Third thing is to always squirrel away more than you think you'll need. If some of the "good" neighbors/friends/relations show up and they would be more of an asset than a hindrance than it'll be nice to have enough food and water for them too (of course if they're any good they'll be bringing their own food/water/gas/ammo).

Fourth, if you've got some neighbors/friends/relations that you really want to join you, get them to start stocking up now. Would be advantageous for you if the zombie polar bears from outer space happen to attack when you're on the other side of town from your house and you have to traverse the city ... passing these others on the way. Who knows, maybe you'll end up in THEIR compound.

 

[JWarren]

I am all about SHTF planning. Katrina taught me the error of my former ways.

That said, I am also a realist.

The low probability of a SHTF occuring precludes making comments that are likely to upset people that you have to come into contact with whether they be friends, family, coworkers, or just aquaintances. Just laugh it off. Seriously. Chances are that if something DID happen, they will be so self-absorbed with their immediate needs that they have forgotten about you anyway.


And here's the time for some honesty:

The people that see your preparations and say "Wow... if something ever happens, I am coming to your house" are likely just being polite. Most of those people thing you are freaking nuts. Now, don't take offense. While I keep low key, of the people that do know how I've prepared the majority (vast) probably think I am nuts, too.


Seriously. If someone WOULDN'T think you were nuts, they'd probably be preparing themselves. People are really self-oriented. If someone does something different than they do, or has a different outlook than them, then they must be crazy since it isn't a thing they would do.


That's just the reality of it.


-- John