SHTF Rifles 101

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obxned

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OK, I give up. I’ve read everything, including every bit of every thread on this and several other forums, about the SHTF rifle. I have and do own numerous rifles, but all of mine are slow fire, very accurate, hunting guns. I now want a semi-auto, fire it over and over again ‘til the cows come home, military type rifle. This is partly because I see a possible need for it, but also because the loonies are fast taking control of the asylum called DC, and I feel that if I don’t do it NOW, I might not be able to in the future. As an added inducement, it probably will label me in their minds as some kind of nut case. If you can’t judge me by my friend, then judge me by my enemies!

I am leaning more toward an AK-type action rather than an AR, but the 5.56 is probably the easiest to find in event of weird stuff happening, and also about the cheapest to buy in massive quantities. Keep in mind, I probably need to get one for each of my kids, and that means more than ½ a dozen.

Just tell me what to buy and where to get it.
 
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If you're using your gun anywhere in the continental U.S., any issues with the gas-impingement system are problematic only in the fertile imaginations of Internet ninjas sweatily typing away in their basement offices. Out in the field is flawless. I've shot mine in 0-degree Minnesota winter days and humid 90-degree Minnesota summer days. I've run 1,000 rounds through it in a weekend without cleaning or oiling it, then took it out the next weekend for another 500 rounds with nothing but a quick wipedown and a sloppy lube. My cousin has been using his every day in much harsher conditions in Anbar Province and he has no complaints, either.

Near as I can tell, most of the complaints about the Stoner gas system are caused by the complainer wearing his or her underwear three sizes too tight.

Right now AK prices are high and 7.62x39 ammo is thin on the ground because there is a huge market for the stuff in Iraq. If you are in Iraq, this might be the platform to go with, but you aren't in Iraq. You're in the continental U.S., where an AR is the most logical tool for the job you describe.
 
SKS, AK, AR15
These are the 2 top rifles IMO.

The FAL, M1A, G3 and others are great, but try to find decent milsurp ammo after the S. African ball dried up.

Wolf ammunition my be frowned upon by some, but I have faith in them. They are not the best, but they go bang every single time I pull the trigger and I believe more in shot placement than magic bullets.

Personally, if you are on a tight budget, you can't go wrong with the SKS. It is a toss up between AK and AR.
I choose the AR - it is more versatile. You can have many different uppers in different calibers. 5.56x45 works for me. I can take deer with it if I need to and you bet your bottom dollar if I can see it, I can probably hit it up to 300 yards.
Beware if the internet Rambo's - they will tell you that the AR is a jammomatic.
 
Yeah, AK-47 ammo is not the cheapest stuff around, and it won't get any cheaper. I don't have anything against the Stoner design, and like the 5.56, but so far AK types are enough cheaper so that the cheapo ugly Ak + 1000 rnds is still less than any AR w/1000 rnds that I've found. Money IS an issue - if you hain't got enough, you won't have the guns. My good looks won't buy me used 22 rimfire brass.
 
You can build an AR for about the price of a decent-quality AK. I'm not talking about getting special tools and mounting barrels and gas blocks; I'm talking about buying a seperate lower and upper and popping the two pieces together. If you shop around you should be able to get a quality setup for under $700.
 
I am leaning more toward an AK-type action rather than an AR, but the 5.56 is probably the easiest to find in event of weird stuff happening, and also about the cheapest to buy in massive quantities. Keep in mind, I probably need to get one for each of my kids, and that means more than ½ a dozen.
Click to expand...
I'm not a big fan of ak's but at the same time I'd also say if you don't have it already when disaster hits you might want to count on not being able to get it. Are your kids shooters? If they're not maybe an easy to use rifle makes more sense than another one. Maybe it makes more sense to include a couple thousand rounds with the rifle than to buy the most expensive rifle.
 
Here's my 2¢:

Buy the AR.
Yeah, the AK series go bang even when filled with sand, mud, twigs, etc., etc., etc. (sarcasm added, btw!)

I do know a couple of guys that crawled around in the sandbox, after Gulf War I, that picked up AK type rifles and shook the sand out and fired the rest of the magazine.
BUT, the ammo for the AK & SKS type rifles aren't going to be plentiful once the SHTF, IF that's what you're worried about.

The AR platform (.223/5.56x45mm) will be around until the gov't decides to end the life of the AR/M-16/M4 platform. And then a long while later.
Think of it this way. . . the AR/M-16/M4 platform has been the military's main fighting weapon system longer than any other personal fighting weapon.
Keyword. . . personal.

With that said, yes, I have an AR; M1-A; SKS, and a couple of other firearms that 'will do' in a pinch.

.223/5.56x45mm ammo will be available longer than 7.62x39mm, IMNSHO.

Lastly, for a SHTF scenario, buy a .22 lr semi-auto and 5,000 rounds of ammo.
When your 'target' falls, go pick up his weapon and ammo.

Thanks for reading.
 
Have ALWAYS thought that .22LR was the most important round every made. It will feed you for pennies a day, and can make bad guys go away for less money than anything else. Not the best defensive round, but a swarm of .22 will make anyone rethink their plan. 1000 rounds costs next to nothing. You could stash enough for your whole state under the insulation between the joists in the floor of your attic.

That said, I do need an AK/AR. I have found AK's for about $375 w/ shipping and transfer. No AR that I have found comes close to that price.

I am still hoping for more suggestions.
 
The first question that needs to be asked is what type of SHTF are you trying to plan for?

1. Are you talking about being stranded on the highway a few hours? (some consider this one)

2. Are you talking about a fairly protracted, regional issue like Katrina?

3. Or are you talking about TEOLAWKI (The End of Life as We Know It) situations?

If you are talking about #1, practically anything will work.

If you are talking about #2, You have a number of choices and caliber is not going to be a major problem. I went through the aftermath of Katrina with one AK-47 in full wood stock, and one Glock 19 handgun. I did fine-- even with defending property 3 times in 8 weeks. I seriously doubt you are going to get your AR so gummed up that it won't shoot, and you won't be in a situation where an AK isn't handy to have either. Get what you want, and get enough ammo for it-- and you will be fine. Just don't forget that there is A LOT, I repeat A LOT more you need to worry about in a Katrina-like SHTF than just your firearm.

If you are talking about #3, well that is an ENTIRELY different situation. Here, you still need to get whatever rifle you prefer and as much ammunition you think you will ever shoot in it. Am I going to get an AR because I am anticipating scavaging 5.56mm rounds from LEO and Military? Hell no. Your SHTF planning should not include a "hope" variable.

In this extreme example, it is better (IMO) to have firearms that fill your certain needs:

Hunting Rifle (Large Game)-- Your Defense Rifle could work for this as well.
Hunting Rifle (Small Game) -- may substitute Shotgun if you please.
Defense Rifle-- Your Hunting Rifle could work for this as well.
Handgun-- get one for as many people as you would want to have one (Me and my wife, for example.)

The rest of your "firearms" budget would be best spent on buying MORE ammuntion than you think you would ever need in these firearms. A reloader and reloading components is a good idea as well.

One thing you remember if you are planning for a TEOTWAWKI, you will be hunting for food on occasion. Full Metal Jacket rounds ARE NOT a great hunting round (ie. your milsurp rounds). You need some lead nose rounds typically for expansion. If FMJ is your only option, then get real good at making head shots.

Surviving #2 and #3 SHTF's will need a LOT more than a firearm to get by. As soon as I get time, I will be making a long thread regarding what I learned that worked well and what failed misterably during the aftermath of Katrina.


Regardless of the scenerio, the AK vs AR debate is beat in the ground.



All the best!

John
 
If you are looking for the best value, the SKS is the one IMHO.
A good Yugo SKS can be had for $150. Upgraded sights are about $70 if you need them (www.tech-sights.com). A case of ammo is $160 or so. That is close to the price of a cheap AK. It is also very easy to carry a couple hundred rounds on stripper clips. The bayonet and solid stock might be useful in some cases. Sure, the gun only holds 10 rounds in an internal magazine, but I think you would find few circumstances where that won't be enough. It is the cheapest way to get more firepower I think.

From what I have seen at Houston gun shows, cases of Wolf .223 and 7.62X39 are about the same price in the $150 to $170 range.
 
What JWarren said. :)
Honestly, in a SHTF situation that is temporary, you won't likely need cases and cases of ammo. In worse scenarios, if you survive to fire 300 or 400 rounds, you are likely one of the lucky ones.

In bad situations, food, water, and other issues might be bigger than maintaining a huge gun and ammo collection.
 
If you are supplying a whole family, the AR's may get prohibitively expensive. If you wanted to save a little more, but still keep ammo compatibility, you could go with half AK's and half SKS's. You know, 3 and 3 or something. this way, everybody is decently armed, and the $600 (~$200 savingsX3rifles=$600) savings would go very nicely for something like 3500 rounds of 7.62x39. Not bad right? you save money, have the high-cap heavy firepower of the AK's, and still keep ammo compatibility.

Heh. you could even use the saved money to buy a CZ527 carbine and scope, to have a designated marksmen who still keeps ammo compatibility.
 
We live in hurricane country, and we would not evacuate for less than a Cat 6 (there ain't no such). We were here through Isabel, and I took a nap and missed the worst of Floyd. The problems with food and water, securing and protecting damaged buildings, and getting by while things get back to normal after a disaster like that are familiar to us, and we have all that under control as best as can be.

We are no fools, and we know that if a serious problem comes after a disaster, it will probably be human and will not be from here. We who live here will meet it!

It is probably 1 chance in several billion that such a thing could happen. Most of the reason I want AK/AR’s for myself and the kids is because the #@%* in Washington after the next election will probably make owning them a hanging offence as opposed to rape/murder/car jacking/suicide bombing, which are just symptoms of our poor social system.

May they perform an abnormal sex act upon themselves.
 
Obxned;

If you're truly worried about the forthcoming activities of the congresscritters vs cost issue, it would seem to me there's only one option that fills the bill.

Buy AR lowers now, enough for the family + a couple spares/trading material. Build at your leisure, expending funds as available or as the strategic situation changes, ie, the critters start to legislate parts other than lowers.

With a couple of built AR's in hand, trading face-to-face becomes a reality if you think you need something else in a future with draconian restrictions.

900F
 
+1 on ARs

I got rid of all my 7.62*39 guns because I am not sold on the terminal performance of Wolf or Silver Bear. Corbon and Winchester are too expensive to stock up on.

AR's have inexpensive mags, and decent ammo (5.56 Nato) can be had for the same price as Wolf in my area.
 
get a case of Yugo SKSs (5 rifles for ~$120 ea.)

with 2,000 rounds of mil. surp. (1,000 for training and fun, and another 1,000 for cache).

get those boys rounded up for a cosmoline cleaning party....

it's a family affair!
 
I would go with a mil-spec AR like a Bushmaster. It is a semi version of current military issue, so parts and ammo are would be readily availible.
 
mosin nagants
you can field a small army for the price of one ar-15
the ammo is even cheaper
meanwhile id invest in sks and ak-47 and a good browning hi power
and lets not forget the 10/22 and 870
 
how about a Saiga in 223. goes for about $300. you get the stoutness of an AK with 223 caliber. plus they are sporterized so they look less tactical than regular AK's.

do a search about Saiga.
 
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