Sig P220R vs HK USP 45
- Thread starter quickcanary
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I'm sure H&K builds great guns but mine has been a major dissapointment. My Sig was a much better gun. I loved everything about the H&K until I started shooting it. Mine will shoot tiny little groups all over the target. The first 3-4 shots will be in one tiny group and the next 3-4 shots will be in a tiny group several inches away. My gunsmith tells me that while this is not common he has seen other H&K pistols do this.
Black Majik
Member
I currently own a HK USPf .45. That said, both are EXCELLENT pistols and often compared to each other. The USP is my only non-1911 .45, which I am really happy with.
So, there are plenty of advantages and disadvantages to both platforms. We'll start with the USP. With the USP, it is double stack, so you'll have the additional rounds (or more if you had standard cap mags already). The gun is available in a variety of modes. You can carry it cocked and locked, or DA/SA. Heck, you can even carry it DA/SA locked if you wanted to. Only thing is, us high thumb shooters riding the safety lever risks the chance of decocking the gun halfway through a string. The trigger is horrible in DA, and heavy in SA. It'll also have a long reset. You can get a match trigger installed, but it won't be a huge improvement, unless you take it to a gunsmith, or the guys at Grayguns. P.S. The stock sights REALLY suck. Similar to the Glock sights, but with those huge white dots that look like eyeballs staring back at you. Swap em' out for Heinie Straight Eights for a beautifully crisp sight picture.
The P220 on the other hand, is a different platform. The Classic P220 comes in DA/SA, which usually has a better trigger. It's definitely lighter, with the DA trigger pull a slight tad shorter than the USP. The P220 comes with better sights (IMO) than the USP, which I definitely prefer the bar-dot sights than the 3 dots on the USP. There are also some beautiful P220s, as you can swap out grips to your hearts content, such as nills, or the Equinox grips. The only gripe (a good one too) are the grip screws. They shoot loose on a regular basis, so you'll have to keep an eye on them, or blue loctite them. Bruce and Scott @ GGI can make a really good gun quite incredible. But as a stock pistol, the trigger is going to be "good",but it'll also have a long trigger reset just like the USP. Also, if you shoot high thumb, your thumb might ride on the slidestop and prevent slidelock on the last round.
I should close stating that while the P220 is an excellent platform, I personally don't have a use for one. I got the USP because I felt it was more durable. The P220 can hold it's own also, but I wanted something different other than 1911s and durability was a major factor for me. The USP won that one.
So, there are plenty of advantages and disadvantages to both platforms. We'll start with the USP. With the USP, it is double stack, so you'll have the additional rounds (or more if you had standard cap mags already). The gun is available in a variety of modes. You can carry it cocked and locked, or DA/SA. Heck, you can even carry it DA/SA locked if you wanted to. Only thing is, us high thumb shooters riding the safety lever risks the chance of decocking the gun halfway through a string. The trigger is horrible in DA, and heavy in SA. It'll also have a long reset. You can get a match trigger installed, but it won't be a huge improvement, unless you take it to a gunsmith, or the guys at Grayguns. P.S. The stock sights REALLY suck. Similar to the Glock sights, but with those huge white dots that look like eyeballs staring back at you. Swap em' out for Heinie Straight Eights for a beautifully crisp sight picture.
The P220 on the other hand, is a different platform. The Classic P220 comes in DA/SA, which usually has a better trigger. It's definitely lighter, with the DA trigger pull a slight tad shorter than the USP. The P220 comes with better sights (IMO) than the USP, which I definitely prefer the bar-dot sights than the 3 dots on the USP. There are also some beautiful P220s, as you can swap out grips to your hearts content, such as nills, or the Equinox grips. The only gripe (a good one too) are the grip screws. They shoot loose on a regular basis, so you'll have to keep an eye on them, or blue loctite them. Bruce and Scott @ GGI can make a really good gun quite incredible. But as a stock pistol, the trigger is going to be "good",but it'll also have a long trigger reset just like the USP. Also, if you shoot high thumb, your thumb might ride on the slidestop and prevent slidelock on the last round.
I should close stating that while the P220 is an excellent platform, I personally don't have a use for one. I got the USP because I felt it was more durable. The P220 can hold it's own also, but I wanted something different other than 1911s and durability was a major factor for me. The USP won that one.
Sounds like you just shoot better with the vertical alignment style sights. I wouldn't say that the stock sights on the USP suck. They are as good as the lollipop SiG sights to me. I would opt for night sights over either one though.
Obviously this is a subject of preference, but I just wanted to make it clear that both sets of sights are accurate.
Jason
quickcanary
Member
Thanks for the comparison, Black Majik. The Sig is looking very good right now, but I've still got a little while to decide. I'll have to do some more reading but I think either would be a good choice!
Black Majik
Member
Jason G said:
Accuracy is what the shooter is capable of, I'd say the sights are moreso useable. You're right, it's all subjective. Even if we blacked out the sights on both the SIG and USP, I'd still prefer the sight picture of the SIG. I never liked the odd shaped USP sights similar to Glocks, IMO it causes a messy sight picture. The white dots make it worse.
But yeah, what I may not like may be great for others.
FireArmFan
Member
I've been going through a similar problem as well. A while back I rented a USP, it was a .40 because they didn't have a .45 to rent. It shot quite nice and felt great it my hand. Just this week I rented a P220, also felt good in my hand and was very accurate. Very good pistols, both of them. The only issue I had with the Sig was the double action. And the problem didn't have anything to do with the gun but rather myself. The most common pistol I shoot is a single action 1911 so when I tried to shooting the sig in double action, the trigger pull was pretty heavy. Took me a little bit before I got accurate with it. They are both terrific guns and whichever you choose will most likely please you.
caz223
Member
The 220ST is a great pistol, and they are capable of good accuracy, but I don't shoot them well for some reason.
The H&K USP is an awesome pistol, but the grip is too big for me, so I got the USP compact .45 tutone.
I have never been happier with a gun purchase in my life.
Funny, the grip on my CZ97b is prolly about the same size as a full size USP, but I shoot the 97b just fine, and it doesn't feel awkward.
If you can, handle the full size USP and the compact side by side.
Examine the magazines, field strip them both, try to manipulate all the controls on both without shifting your grip, check your natural point of aim , etc.
While I like the USP full size, the compact was more suited to the size of my hand, and it feels like it belongs there when I'm shooting. It's a comfort thing.
I went to the store to buy a full size, handled them both, and left with the compact. Paid $830 back in 2001, can't imagine what they cost now....
If you can get the one you want for $600 DO IT NOW, WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR!!!!!!!!!
The H&K USP is an awesome pistol, but the grip is too big for me, so I got the USP compact .45 tutone.
I have never been happier with a gun purchase in my life.
Funny, the grip on my CZ97b is prolly about the same size as a full size USP, but I shoot the 97b just fine, and it doesn't feel awkward.
If you can, handle the full size USP and the compact side by side.
Examine the magazines, field strip them both, try to manipulate all the controls on both without shifting your grip, check your natural point of aim , etc.
While I like the USP full size, the compact was more suited to the size of my hand, and it feels like it belongs there when I'm shooting. It's a comfort thing.
I went to the store to buy a full size, handled them both, and left with the compact. Paid $830 back in 2001, can't imagine what they cost now....
If you can get the one you want for $600 DO IT NOW, WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR!!!!!!!!!
1man
Member
Usp45
1BLINDREF
Member
These are my P220's (up untill today anyway
) I'm always lookig to add to my little collection. The top center is a P220 Carry SAS, the bottom center is a P220ST, and the left and right ones are old W.German "classics".Personally - I like Sigs better than Hks. I shoot them better and they just feel "right" to me. I've had Hks and they just didn't fit me right. I also don't like the grips on the Hk, and unlike the Sigs, you can't change them.
Both are fine weapons that'll last you a lifetime if you take care of them. Like I always answer the "What gun should I buy" questions, get the one that fits YOU and that YOU shoot best. You can't go wrong with either.
gggman
Member
My USP 45 is the most accurate auto I have ever fired, even more accurate than my Gold Cup. And it is very mild to shoot. Also, some people have griped about HK's customer service, but I had excellent service from them. I'm sure the Sig is a fine weapon, but I really love my USP. I've bought and sold many guns over the years, but I'll never part with my USP.
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