Smart Carry and One In The Pipe Poll Thread

[FranklyTodd]

I said yes, but I carry either DA0 snub (M&P340) or DA/SA (P2000SK). I don't think I would with a Glock...

 

[doc540]

Smartcarry is what I have to use, so I eventually went to a bobbed-hammer revolver for optimum safety and concealment.

Works like a charm.


I can draw, point, and fire in about 3 seconds which is a tradeoff for concealment, but a tradeoff I'm willing to make.

YMMV


re: "I'll never understand why a revolver is good to go, but yet people think a semi auto needs manual safeties and or no round chambered to be safe."

revolver
1. much heavier trigger pull
2. several mechanical processes have to operate
3. hammer has to rise and drop
4. cylinder has to turn inside a relatively tight holster

Leaning over car fenders, working around the house, doing yardwork, I've never had any of a revolver's firing processes even begin to commence for almost two years of carrying with a Smartcarry holster.

 

[orionengnr]

If it's not loaded, it's a club. And in the Smart Carry, it is a fairly inaccesible club...

It is certainly not the fastest way to get into action, but it is the safest for barely-trained civilian carry in the usual crowded Israeli civilian environments (schools, busses, streets, malls, etc). A dropped gun will not fire, and a lost or misplaced gun found in cond 3 is safer than in cond 1.

Pure opinion..and not a very well-informed opinion, at that.

 

[model of 1905]

I carry a S&W M&Pc 357 10+1 (no external safety) in a Smart Carry every day. It's on me as I type this. No worries. No issues and no limitations.

 

[nelson133]

IMHO, anyone who would advocate carrying an auto with the chamber empty for self defense hasn't been in a self defense situation. You stop thinking and react as you have trained. Unless you train repeatedly to draw and rack, you probably won't. Drawing early and racking the gun could be seen as a provocation in legal terms, especially with so many of the jury pool trained by tv and movies. If you feel the need for an empty hamber, carry a revolver.

 

[Chris Plitt]

IMHO, anyone who would advocate carrying an auto with the chamber empty for self defense hasn't been in a self defense situation. You stop thinking and react as you have trained. Unless you train repeatedly to draw and rack, you probably won't. Drawing early and racking the gun could be seen as a provocation in legal terms, especially with so many of the jury pool trained by tv and movies. If you feel the need for an empty hamber, carry a revolver.

Very true Nelson, plus, the repeated chambering of a round in this nature could cause the bullet to become seated farther back in the case and increase pressure to unsafe levels... all it takes is 1/16 of an inch in .40 to double the chamber pressure... if I remember correctly.

Thats a risk I would rather not take...

 

[sloman]

It's a "Must Have" for carry under certain circumstances. And yes, I always carry one in the chamber when wearing it. Been using one for 5 years with no problems except occasionally when bending. Price you pay for concealment

 

[full metal]

Hell yeah, I used to have one, thanks Doc for posting the web page I need to get one again. It gets pretty hot here in Arizona, and out of all the holsters that I have owned the smart holster is the best for CCW when you wear shorts and tank tops.

 

[9MMare]

I didnt take the poll because I dont use 'smart carry'.

I have done some reading on this, and I will be carrying my S&W fs M&P 9mm 17+1 when I carry.

It will mostly be purse carry and I intentionally got the M&P with a thumb safety as I dont want accidents while drawing it from a purse...just an extra measure of safety from snagging on things.

OTOH, in my nightstand, I dont keep one in the chamber. I think I'll have enough time to rack if I hear an intruder at nite.

 

[metallic]

OTOH, in my nightstand, I dont keep one in the chamber. I think I'll have enough time to rack if I hear an intruder at nite.

That may cause problems if you intend to use the same weapon for concealed carry that you use for a nightstand gun. Repeatedly chambering the same round will cause the bullet to eventually become recessed in the case, which will increase the pressures inside the barrel when the weapon is fired. Not saying you're wrong for doing it, just saying it's something that should be a consideration

 

[03Shadowbob]

I use my smart carry all the time as I am in surf shorts and t-shirts almost everyday as well as soccer shorts when coaching. Sitting, bending, etc is not an issue with deep concealment guns like the LCP, P3AT, Minimag etc..
Since I live in Florida and dress the way I do, if I could only have one holster, this would be it. That's how much I use it.

 

[9MMare]

That may cause problems if you intend to use the same weapon for concealed carry that you use for a nightstand gun. Repeatedly chambering the same round will cause the bullet to eventually become recessed in the case, which will increase the pressures inside the barrel when the weapon is fired. Not saying you're wrong for doing it, just saying it's something that should be a consideration

This is very helpful!

Right now, I am shooting it at least once a week, so 'same round' probably changes enough to be safe.

(And I'm not yet carrying it)

What do you recommend?

 

[metallic]

Wow! I wish I could afford to shoot that often! Probably the easiest solution is to just leave the handgun in your holster with the round chambered at the end of the day. The stuff I have in my 1911 is around $1.25/round, so I only really cycle out what is in the magazine maybe every 3 months. If you intend to keep the same ammo and same frequency of practice after you start carrying, then like you said, not really a problem

 

[esq_stu]

I go to the gym daily at 0530 with my wife. There's always a SmartCarry with a chambered PM9 or Glock 26 under my shorts.

 

[WVMountainBoy]

Yes, of course. If I have to draw and fire then the situation has already gone bad enough that I don't want to concentrate on racking the slide. Same reason I keep my 870 ready to go beside the bed.

 

[easyg]

Yes, YOUR revolver has a 12lb trigger and YOUR Glock has a 5.5lb trigger. I've seen a lot of revolvers in the 5-6lb range and Glocks are available with 12lb triggers. Not that it matters since none of those will be forgiving of a goof with their finger where it doesn't belong.

You're wrong.

A 12 lbs. trigger is much more forgiving than a 5 lbs. trigger should a "goof" have their finger where it doesn't belong.
This is why there were quite a few cases of cops having negligent discharges when they transitioned from revolvers to handguns like the Glock.
For years they got away with poor finger control (because a heavy double-action revolver trigger is not an easy thing to accidentally pull), but the Glock was quick to make an example of them.

Heck, I sometimes jog with my revolver in my front pocket.
There's no way I would do that with a Glock.

BTW, who the heck would put a 12 lbs trigger on a Glock?

 

[eJack]

You're wrong.

A 12 lbs. trigger is much more forgiving than a 5 lbs. trigger should a "goof" have their finger where it doesn't belong.
This is why there were quite a few cases of cops having negligent discharges when they transitioned from revolvers to handguns like the Glock.
For years they got away with poor finger control (because a heavy double-action revolver trigger is not an easy thing to accidentally pull), but the Glock was quick to make an example of them.

Heck, I sometimes jog with my revolver in my front pocket.
There's no way I would do that with a Glock.

BTW, who the heck would put a 12 lbs trigger on a Glock?

Belting out "your wrong" like that isn't exactly the high road way, but since you at least made somewhat of a case, I'll respond.

While saying that a 12 lb trigger is "more" forgiving than a 6 lb is true, neither are what I would consider forgiving. One ND is one too many. I don't consider any gun to be safe with a finger on the trigger or jogging around with it rumbling loose in your pocket.

As for who would put a 12 lb trigger on a Glock, that would be the NYPD. Glock developed a replacement trigger called the New York trigger. It is designed to feel like a DAO revolver.

Now if you don't mind, please be civil.

 

[MCgunner]

I'll never understand why a revolver is good to go, but yet people think a semi auto needs manual safeties and or no round chambered to be safe.

It's called a proper DA trigger. That's why I like the Kel Tec P11 trigger. It's very smooth and easy to use, but long and very safe to carry. I carry revolvers and autos and a TRUE DA auto is the only auto for me. Not only is it safer to carry and just as accurate if you take the time to learn it, it also keeps the training similar, just pull that DA on the first shot.

As for who would put a 12 lb trigger on a Glock, that would be the NYPD. Glock developed a replacement trigger called the New York trigger. It is designed to feel like a DAO revolver.

Actually, the NY trigger is an 8 lb trigger and has the same short throw as I understand it. It's just the installation of a stiffer trigger return spring. It wouldn't have helped Plaxico. Anyone that carries a glock in anything short of Kydex or very stiff leather with full coverage for the trigger is a potential Plaxico.

 

[dkk73]

This thread mirrors a discussion I had with myself over several years, with several different holsters and guns evaluated.

First, I truly believe some of these choices are situational and depend upon one's actual and perceived levels of risk. Sooo... YMMV and if you have a super-orthodox view, let's just say ahead of time we might disagree.

(1) Got a SmartCarry early on and find it my most useful holster for a number of reasons. For many people an IWB simply is nowhere near as versatile. Those who refuse to go anywhere they can't get by with IWB/OWB are served well without this "ridiculous" holster, but it is invaluable for the rest of us. Really, some of the people reading this board must conceal absolutely in a range of clothes and situations.

(2) I became uncomfortable carrying my G27 in the SmartCarry with one in the pipe. This is with an NYT and getting it as "revolver-like" as I could. Spent lots of time trying various things and reading a lot of opinions which are partly reflected in the prior posts... Ended up carrying Israeli-style in low-risk situations and training a lot to draw and rack. The drawbacks of this technique (and it's advantages) are already discussed and I was ultimately not really happy with the solution.

(3) Eventually I just sold the Glocks. To answer your question, I carry the HK USPc (not cocked-and-locked) and P7 without concern. I carry a 442 with only mild concern. I really think there is something about the "curve" of the trigger pull (weight vs. distance) that makes me less concerned vs. the Glock trigger. As mentioned, it's not peak weight alone. Overall, the P7 is almost the perfect gun for this holster method.

(4) If I am in a situation where speed and 1-hand draw are more important (e.g. going into city, convenience store, out at night), I will usually try hard to use an IWB and an auto (preferred) or pocket-carry the 442. I realize I can't predict what will happen, but I can certainly predict the kinds of exposures I will have and make an educated choice about preparedness.

As for the mechanics, the cloth sides of the holster actually do make it almost impossible to actuate the trigger. The main issue for me is that there is more chance of fumbling/snagging given that the holster mouth is not held open and it is not rigid in general. So, I don't think it'll just go off when holstered. I'm more worried about ND due to the mechanics of gun handling when going to the post office and discretely fussing around with it in my car.

As for your "junk" the holster doesn't really point towards it. However, if you aren't confident enough about trigger/safety/habits/holster/gun to sweep your own body while moving around holstered, I would submit that holster location is not itself the main problem.

 

[eJack]

It's called a proper DA trigger. That's why I like the Kel Tec P11 trigger. It's very smooth and easy to use, but long and very safe to carry. I carry revolvers and autos and a TRUE DA auto is the only auto for me. Not only is it safer to carry and just as accurate if you take the time to learn it, it also keeps the training similar, just pull that DA on the first shot.

Actually, the NY trigger is an 8 lb trigger and has the same short throw as I understand it. It's just the installation of a stiffer trigger return spring. It wouldn't have helped Plaxico. Anyone that carries a glock in anything short of Kydex or very stiff leather with full coverage for the trigger is a potential Plaxico.

For the Glock, from the Glock web site:

N.Y.1 The GLOCK „New York“ trigger has its name from the New York Police Department. It facilitates officers changing from revolvers to pistols. Increases trigger pull weight from 2,5 kg / 5.5 lb. to 4,9 kg / 11 lb.


N.Y.2 The N.Y.2 trigger spring is even harder than the N.Y.1 trigger spring. The user will obtain a continuous very hard revolver-like increase of the trigger pull weight from 3,2 kg / 7 lb. to 5 kg / 11 lb.

As for triggers in general, I still feel that safer doesn't equal safe. In other words, if it can't be done safely with a Glock, it probably shouldn't be done with a revolver either. JMO.

 

[easyg]

Belting out "your wrong" like that isn't exactly the high road way, but since you at least made somewhat of a case, I'll respond.

When a person is posting information that is simply wrong, there's nothing uncivil about telling that person that he is wrong.

While saying that a 12 lb trigger is "more" forgiving than a 6 lb is true, neither are what I would consider forgiving. One ND is one too many. I don't consider any gun to be safe with a finger on the trigger or jogging around with it rumbling loose in your pocket.

I'm not advocating running around with one's finger on the trigger, regardless of the type of gun.
But it is safe to carry a non-cocked revolver, with a heavy double-action trigger, in a manner that may be unsafe to carry certain other handguns, like a Glock.
And a single-action revolver can be carried about any way you like.
You can even twirl an uncocked single-action revolver around your trigger-finger all day long without the chance of a negligent discharge.

ALL HANDGUNS ARE NOT EQUAL WHEN IT COMES TO CARRY METHODS.

As for who would put a 12 lb trigger on a Glock, that would be the NYPD. Glock developed a replacement trigger called the New York trigger. It is designed to feel like a DAO revolver.

And why did NY feel the need to add a 12 lbs trigger?

Because, as I have said, the heavier trigger is more forgiving of human mistakes than a lighter trigger.

Now if you don't mind, please be civil.

Nothing I said was uncivil.
Everybody is wrong sometime.

 

[eJack]

When a person is posting information that is simply wrong, there's nothing uncivil about telling that person that he is wrong.


I'm not advocating running around with one's finger on the trigger, regardless of the type of gun.
But it is safe to carry a non-cocked revolver, with a heavy double-action trigger, in a manner that may be unsafe to carry certain other handguns, like a Glock.
And a single-action revolver can be carried about any way you like.
You can even twirl an uncocked single-action revolver around your trigger-finger all day long without the chance of a negligent discharge.

ALL HANDGUNS ARE NOT EQUAL WHEN IT COMES TO CARRY METHODS.


And why did NY feel the need to add a 12 lbs trigger?

Because, as I have said, the heavier trigger is more forgiving of human mistakes than a lighter trigger.



Nothing I said was uncivil.
Everybody is wrong sometime.

See previous post. Not as wrong as you seem to claim. Sorry I was off by 1 lb. BFD. As for carry methods, there are safe methods of carrying any handgun, and then there are methods that have varying degrees of risk depending on the design of the handgun. When it is the safety of myself and others around me, I choose not to accept those degrees of risk. NY added the 12 lb trigger because of years of bad training that did result in accidents even with revolvers but became worse with Glocks. If you are the guy that gets hit by a ND, that is the only one you are going to care about. Rates of occurrence aren't going to matter one bit. And yes belting out "your wrong" is widely considered uncivil. Especially when you lack factual evidence and it is really just a difference in opinion.

 

[B yond]

I would not carry a gun in any kind of holster that I wasn't comfortable keeping chambered.

Being comfortable carrying chambered is why I carry guns with a DA first shot, manual safety, and exposed hammer.

No, I would not shove a chambered stock glock into a smartcarry (or an IWB) for that matter. Sooner or later something would engage the trigger and I'd end up with a leak.

 

[easyg]

eJack,
Do you honestly believe that carrying an uncocked double-action revolver, with a 12 lbs 1" pull trigger, is equally as safe or dangerous as carrying a Glock with a 5 lbs .5" pull trigger in the same carry manner?



For example:

Do you think that carrying a standard unaltered Ruger GP100 revolver tucked in the waistband (aka "mexican carry") is equally safe or dangerous as carrying a standard unaltered Glock 17 in the same manner?

 

[eJack]

eJack,
Do you honestly believe that carrying an uncocked double-action revolver, with a 12 lbs 1" pull trigger, is equally as safe or dangerous as carrying a Glock with a 5 lbs .5" pull trigger in the same carry manner?

For example:

Do you think that carrying a standard unaltered Ruger GP100 revolver tucked in the waistband (aka "mexican carry") is equally safe or dangerous as carrying a standard unaltered Glock 17 in the same manner?

No and no. Nor did I ever say so. What I said is that safer does not equal safe. If a carry method is unsafe with a Glock, I wouldn't consider it safe with a revolver just because of the trigger weight difference. The trigger weight difference can make it safer but not necessarily safe.