Smith and Wesson CSX?

[Styx]

View attachment 1092039

Well I simply stated what I thought was obvious which was polymer handguns outsell 1911s, and the market has shifted to polymer handguns (I'm not happy about that). A couple of members who like 3rd gen S&Ws and 1911s took a personal offense to that apparently.

I am not basing 1911s, 3rd Gen S&Ws, or metal framed guns. I perfer them to polymer handguns. I am just pointing out that they have fell out of favor which I didn't think was controversial, would ruffle feathers, or offend anyone. I carry a Kahr K40 and S&W 688, but I'm not going to be offended or argumentive if someone stated those type of handguns were as other platforms or types of handguns.

 

[citizenconn]

Well I simply stated what I thought was obvious which was polymer handguns outsell 1911s and the market has shifted to polymer handguns, and a couple of members who like 3rd gen S&Ws and 1911s took a personal offense to that apparently.

I am not basing 1911s, 3rd Gen S&Ws, or metal framed guns. I perfer them to polymer handguns. I am just pointing out that they have fell out of favor which I didn't think was controversial, would ruffle feathers, or offend anyone.

Well, this is the internet where is you have 2 people arguing you get 3 opinions. But keep it up. It is entertaining.

 

[Styx]

Well, this is the internet where is you have 2 people arguing you get 3 opinions. But keep it up. It is entertaining.

I think they took what I stated as me bashing 1911s and 3rd gen S&Ws, or that I was happy about the trend to poly at the expense of metal frame guns. That wasn't my intention. I'm not continuing, so sorry to disappoint you.

 

[tarosean]

I think they took what I stated as me bashing 1911s and 3rd gen S&Ws, or that I was happy about the trend to poly at the expense of metal frame guns. That wasn't my intention. I'm not continuing, so sorry to disappoint you.

Not quite, I took your exact words.. "1911s do not sell"

Yes, I own many poly guns and 1911's.. I haven't owned a 3rd gen since I was offered more $$$ than sense for a 1006.
It is what it is.

 

[SwampWolf]

... I only see a small handful of old timers who are still inquiring about them (1911 style pistols).

You really believe that?

 

[Styx]

Not quite, I took your exact words.. "1911s do not sell"

Yes, I own many poly guns and 1911's.. I haven't owned a 3rd gen since I was offered more $$$ than sense for a 1006.
It is what it is.

That's not what I meant at all. They sell a lot and are very popular. I own one and want more. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

[Styx]

You really believe that?

I meant the 3rd Gen S&Ws. I see people who were around when they were prevalent bring them up on gun forums every so often. I personally haven't seen a real interest outside of that. I own several CZs (Shadows, P01, 75s), Berettas 92s, 5 Kahr steel frames, 1911s, a bunch of revolvers, Sig P238, P938, P239, etc, etc. I am more into guns like 1911s, 3rd Gen S&Ws, the gun this thread is about aka the CXS. I just, sadly, think that rest of the world is moving away from those type of guns as us older folks fall off. If S&W had a 2nd Gen CXS with fixes and came out with an updated 3rd Gen all steel (my preference) or aluminum pistol, I'd own one. I am pessimistic about that ever happening.

Me personally, I am an all stainless steel type of guy with either black rubberized or wood grips. Old school, plain, simply, and classy.

I still have not jump on the hybrid micro 9mm bandwagon and doubt I ever will.....

That may be why manufacturers are more than happy to start small. It use to be that smaller guns were frowned upon for primary carry, but now they preferred by many. I like to carry all steel, larger, and heavier guns. I am not obsessed with capacity either.

I prefer steel. I mostly carry steel framed handguns. With that said, the only polymer handguns that I feel have even a fourth of the character of steel framed guns are made by HK.

As I gotten older, I am more interested in steel framed and higher quality gun vs Glocks, micro 9mm, and all the other less expensive and polymer stuff....

I went from carrying and only being interested in small, light, carry sized polymer pistols to prefering to carry bigger 30oz +/- pistols.

 

[TarDevil]

polymer frame handguns overwhelming out sell 1911s . Period end of point.

I don't mind people making a valid point.

I just haven't seen the validity in your statement. Can you cite sources? Do you have sales stats to support your claim?

 

[Styx]

I don't mind people making a valid point.

I just haven't seen the validity in your statement. Can you cite sources? Do you have sales stats to support your claim?

No. I am not, and do not have to. It's common sense that just about no one but you would argue that 1911s are selling more or even close to as many polymer frame guns. I know you don't even believe that, and you just want to be argumentative.

 

[TarDevil]

just want to be argumentative.

Oh my, I hate to argue. Wherever do you get such an idea?

I like discussing facts, and I was just asking for some.

 

[JR24]

As far as the trigger goes it is as good stock as any factory Colt 1911 I have had

That is ... not my experience.

 

[Homerboy]

Not quite, I took your exact words.. "1911s do not sell"

Yes, I own many poly guns and 1911's.. I haven't owned a 3rd gen since I was offered more $$$ than sense for a 1006.
It is what it is.

1911's are niche guns. I don't know one person who carries one. I own one, a Colt GI 1911 from 1944. Bought for collector's purpose and because I appreciate the role it played in this country. Cocked and locked makes no sense to me for carry. Giant gap between hammer and frame for debris to get into it. Size and weight are their biggest drawbacks to carry. I won't even carry a Glock 19 anymore, not when there are smaller and lighter alternatives. In my experience, many who carry them do so for the conversation factor and to appear to be experienced pistoleros. I'm sure there are exceptions, but none known to me personally.

I have been a HUGE fan of 3rd Gen guns for the last 25 years. Still have half dozen or so. I love them, but they're range guns. Too big and heavy to carry. My house gun is a 5906, though. I'd take my 4566 any day over a 1911.

As for 1911's selling as many or even more than poly guns, come on, now! Of course plastic is sold more! Look at an gun counter in any gun shop. Far more polymer pistols than 1911's, not to mention the cost is generally half or less, unless you're talking about some Brazilian or Turkish clone. Sorry I don't have sales stats from every gun shop in America. Then again, neither do you.

 

[bannockburn]

Did a quick run through of manufacturers and dealers who make or made or imported 1911s. I came up with 34 companies and I'm sure I left quite a few of them out. That's a lot of companies who I doubt would invest the time and money into a product that was overly expensive to produce or was having declining sales numbers.

Are 1911s (or any SAO pistol like the S&W CSX) the best choice for concealed carry? I would say it depends a lot on the amount of time you want to put in to become proficient with it and are confident you can use it should the need arise. Is it something that will work for most people? Probably not but the choice to carry a SAO semi-auto pistol is there if you want it.

And while I don't have any sales figures to post as to how many 1911s are sold every year all I know is that somebody's sure buying them!

 

[Homerboy]

Did a quick run through of manufacturers and dealers who make or made or imported 1911s. I came up with 34 companies and I'm sure I left quite a few of them out. That's a lot of companies who I doubt would invest the time and money into a product that was overly expensive to produce or was having declining sales numbers.

Are 1911s (or any SAO pistol like the S&W CSX) the best choice for concealed carry? I would say it depends a lot on the amount of time you want to put in to become proficient with it and are confident you can use it should the need arise. Is it something that will work for most people? Probably not but the choice to carry a SAO semi-auto pistol is there if you want it.

And while I don't have any sales figures to post as to how many 1911s are sold every year all I know is that somebody's sure buying them!

Of course they sell. They wouldn't make them if they didn't. They just don't sell as much as the polymer guns. And your logic is flawed. You found companies that sell 1911's. What percentage of their product line is the 1911, and what is the make-up of those sales? Sig makes a 1911, but I bet they sell more P226 series gins then they do 1911's, to say nothing of their 365 line. Ruger makes 1911's, but I am sure they make up a small percentage of their total sales. S&W makes a few. All of them quite north of $1000. I had to look that up. I thought they stopped making them years ago. I haven't seen one in a shop in many years.

You say 34 manufacturers make 1911's. Next time you're in your local gun shop, count how many of those 1911's made by those 34 companies are represented in the sales case, and how many total 1911's you see on the shelves as compared to the polymer guns.

By the way, I much prefer a metal, hammer fired gun, so I'm not a huge fan of polymer. I have some because they are light, reliable, and reasonably priced. They fill the role of carry gun quite nicely. My beloved 3rd Gen's and Beretta 92's that are far classier, do not fill that role.

 

[bannockburn]

Homerboy

I never said that more 1911s were sold than polymer framed guns; just that 1911s are still a viable choice for someone interested in going with a SAO semi-auto; like the CSX, which is what this thread was supposedly about.

 

[Homerboy]

Sorry. I took your posting of the 34 makers to mean that you thought they were as popular.

But I agree the CSX is a viable choice for those familiar and comfortable with a 1911 style weapon. I also think it’s a narrow population that is looking for it. Truth is, I think it’s going to be a bit of a flop. When the Springfield XDE came out, I couldn’t even find one to hold. It appealed to people who like a hammer fired gun, and I count myself in that group. But it eventually flopped.

If the CSX was DA/SA, or even DAO, I’d sell my Shield Plus and buy one. I have zero interest in a SAO cocked and locked carry weapon.

 

[tarosean]

As for 1911's selling as many or even more than poly guns, come on, now!

Re-read every single post.
We already know ATF tracts manufactured guns.. However they only release by caliber "groups". That said there are far too many manufactures of 1911's to call it "niche".
https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/2020-annual-firearms-manufacturers-and-export-report-afmer years pistols.
Here is your top 20 from 2020 (Last year available)

 

[gila_dog1]

I don't want to participate in the argument here, all I will say is that I recently bought a S&W Shield Plus 9mm with the hated polymer lower half, and I love it. I put my old Colt Combat Commander and my Springfield Armory Firecat (9mm 2/3 size 1911), both solid steel, away. They work fine but they are too heavy for my gray man concealed carry needs. I still sometimes lug my S&W model 19 around when I want the extra range and power of the .357 mag. Would I like the CSX? Probably. Over and out, let the argument continue.

 

[Styx]

Re-read every single post.
We already know ATF tracts manufactured guns.. However they only release by caliber "groups". That said there are far too many manufactures of 1911's to call it "niche".
https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/2020-annual-firearms-manufacturers-and-export-report-afmer years pistols.
Here is your top 20 from 2020 (Last year available)
View attachment 1092144

That doesn't even include the millions that are imported into the U.S.

 

[Styx]

Not quite, I took your exact words.. "1911s do not sell"

Yes, I own many poly guns and 1911's.. I haven't owned a 3rd gen since I was offered more $$$ than sense for a 1006.
It is what it is.

I meant sell "as many" and are not nearly as popular as polymer frame guns. I did not mean they did not sell at all. Now I understand why I got all the push back.

 

[Homerboy]

Re-read every single post.
We already know ATF tracts manufactured guns.. However they only release by caliber "groups". That said there are far too many manufactures of 1911's to call it "niche".
https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/2020-annual-firearms-manufacturers-and-export-report-afmer years pistols.
Here is your top 20 from 2020 (Last year available)
View attachment 1092144

Doesn’t list any handguns by style, so it’s useless to me. Not that I care that much anyway. I have my one, a 1944 Colt US Army. I shoot it once a year or so. I’d never dream of carrying anything like it. No upside to me in what I want a carry gun to do.

But one look at my local gun shops tells me more than any chart. 2-3 1911’s and dozens of polymer striker fired guns.

 

[denster]

I find the CSX easy to conceal, reliable, comfortable to shoot and more acurate than it needs to be. The trigger is good but not wonderful the reset issue is not an issue. If you need to ride the reset to be able to shoot well buy a Glock.

 

[SwampWolf]

I have been a HUGE fan of 3rd Gen guns for the last 25 years. Still have half dozen or so. I love them, but they're range guns. Too big and heavy to carry.

My duty weapon was a 3rd Gen Model 6906. Following my retirement in 1998, it has proven to be a superb edc pistol. Plenty small enough and light enough to carry in a holster.

 

[Homerboy]

My duty weapon was a 3rd Gen Model 6906. Following my retirement in 1998, it has proven to be a superb edc pistol. Plenty small enough and light enough to carry in a holster.

Yes, they’re not impossible to carry, and I have owned several 6906’s. I have a 6946 now. But when I can carry 14 rounds in a Shield Plus over 13 in the heavier 6946, for me, every ounce and inch matters. For the 6946, it’s gotta be an outside the waistband holster.

 

[jar]

My duty weapon was a 3rd Gen Model 6906. Following my retirement in 1998, it has proven to be a superb edc pistol. Plenty small enough and light enough to carry in a holster.

I quite often carry my 2nd gen 469 in the last IWB holster Lou Alessi made for me. I usually carry 15 round + 1 using either a Ramline or 59 magazines with the added bumper pad to fill the gap. Surprisingly it conceals as easily as my Shield 2.0 and the biggest weight difference is 16 rounds versus 9 rounds.

Here is the 469 under the shield with the top of the slides aligned.

Notice how closely the two match in trigger placement and grips. If I use the extended Shield magazine even the grip length is near identical. Since the 469 is a stagger stack the grip is just slightly wider.