Smoking deal, serious caveat, legally speaking.

[HKUSP45C]

Please, read the whole thing before replying. Thank you for your time.

I'm looking down the barrel at a smoking deal on a RRA AR-15. The only difficulty I have is it has a 14.5 inch bbl and a perm. attached flash hider to bring it up to legal. My quandry is whether or not it'd be legal or feasible to cut off the flash hider and attach a suppressor.

Obviously the can would have the paperwork, taxes paid, stamps in hand and NFA rules followed to get it, legally. My questions are:

Can I attach a suppressor permanently? Would it be worth the hassle (cleaning and maint.) to do so? In the small span of time between the cutting of the FH and the attachment of the suppressor would the rifle be, legally, a SBR? Armed with my suppressor, one stamp, the possible SBR and the intent to attach the can immediately would I be breaking the law? Finally, would a 14.5 inch bbl with a can (say AAC or GemTech, probably wet) pose problems in fit and function? I've seen some cans build up unburnt powder and ignite/burn internally, possibly causing harm to the operator. Is this a product of FA fire or too short a bbl or possibly both/one or the other?

I know these are legal questions, asked of a bunch of non-lawyers. I here-by absolve all of you of any liability. So, PLEASE don't reply with "consult a lawyer." I understand the risk of internet legal advice. I was hoping some very kind soul could offer a "Hey! I did just that and I was totally legal and here's why!" kind of response.

I have a pretty good feel of NFA regs, but this is a "grey area" to me ... maybe it's not, I don't know, hence my query.

 

[SigfanUSAF]

If it was permanently attached to a 14.5" barrel, so long as the silencer was legal, you wouldn't have to do the SBR thing. However, I wouldn't recommend doing this, as A) Silencers do have a life and B) You would have a real hard time selling a modified silencer should you ever decide to.
I see 2 options, pay another $200 and register your lower as a SBR or buy a 16" barrel for your upper and swap 'em out.

I have no personal experience, but I can say the US military uses a lot of different silencers on their 14.5" M4 barrels with no major problems.

 

[KarbineKrazy]

swap barrels, that's your best option, Go to AR15.com and go to the equipment exchange. You can find a great barrel for not so much and then sell yours after you swap it. Should be able to pick up a decent amount for it as that's a popular set up.

If you have the money for the tax and the suppressor you should be able to do this. This is the most practical option.

 

[dfaugh]

Probabaly best would be to register it as SBR, then have removable suppressor. Twice the tax ($400) but would then be 100% legal AFAIK. Gives more additional options (even shorter barrel, interchangable suppressors, etc) too.

 

[Odnar]

Armed with my suppressor, one stamp, the possible SBR and the intent to attach the can immediately would I be breaking the law?

If I understand correctly, the lower receiver is the part that's considered the "gun". While an upper receiver is certainly required for the firearm to function correctly, they are completely unregulated, like most other firearm accessories. Once removed, it isn't part of the gun anymore and it's length doesn't affect the previously assembled firearm. You should be able to remove the upper receiver then do whatever work your heart desires, right? In short, an unassembled AR can't be a SBR, I would think.

Like you said though, I ain't no lawyer.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Can I attach a suppressor permanently?

Yes.

Would it be worth the hassle (cleaning and maint.) to do so?

Probably. The only problem might be barrel life and suppressor life. If the barrel goes first, then you are throwing away any remaining suppressor life. If the suppressor goes first, then you lose any good barrel life. However, I know several manufacturers (including FBMG) that make permanently attached suppressors that are one stamp rifles and all of them seem to be keeping busy selling them.

In the small span of time between the cutting of the FH and the attachment of the suppressor would the rifle be, legally, a SBR?

My understanding is that yes it would be and it would mean legally that you needed to get a tax stamp for an SBR. Someone mentioned separating the barrel from the upper; but I believe ATF would consider this a "constructive SBR" as long as you had easy access to the other AR parts in the same house. The easiest way to do this is probably to have an SOT do it. They would be able to remove the flash suppressor and permanently attach a suppressor and return it to you on one stamp. Alternatively, you could send the ARs away to live with Grandmother for awhile until you completed the project (not sure if that would avoid the constructive SBR problem or not, probably best to ask ATF and get it in writing or it is meaningless).

Finally, would a 14.5 inch bbl with a can (say AAC or GemTech, probably wet) pose problems in fit and function? I've seen some cans build up unburnt powder and ignite/burn internally, possibly causing harm to the operator. Is this a product of FA fire or too short a bbl or possibly both/one or the other?

I don't think it would be an issue. Most AR cans are rated for use down to 10.5" barrels so you shoulld be fine at 14.5".

 

[rkh]

Is there a reason you don't want a quick-attach suppressor?

If it's the SBR 'look' you're going for, I've seen cans that fold backwords over the barrel. You get all the benefits of a suppressor without losing barrel length or adding significantly to the gun's OAL.

 

[BADUNAME13]

SBR it and do the paperwork when you do the paperwork on the 'can'

 

[rosco22]

If I understand correctly, the lower receiver is the part that's considered the "gun". While an upper receiver is certainly required for the firearm to function correctly, they are completely unregulated, like most other firearm accessories. Once removed, it isn't part of the gun anymore and it's length doesn't affect the previously assembled firearm. You should be able to remove the upper receiver then do whatever work your heart desires, right? In short, an unassembled AR can't be a SBR, I would think.

Like you said though, I ain't no lawyer

This advice will get you thrown in jail. IF you have the parts ie; an upper with a 10.5 barrel with NO SBR tax stamp you are breaking the law . Its called " intent to manufacture" . Just having a full auto fire control parts is a felony .

As for the OP , you would be better served buy getting a 16" barrel for running your new can on . OR go the SBR route . Getting a Perm Flash hider off is a PAIN .

The great thing about an AR is 1 lower 30 uppers ...................

I suggest you get and read ATF PUB. 5300.4

 

[alucard0822]

You may be able to pemanently attatch a 1.5" quick release suppressor adapter to the rifle, if not get a 16" barrel or pay $200 more, I wouldn't permanently attatch the supressor if nothing else for maintenence and repair purposes. and good luck breaking the welds on the fash hider

 

[DMK]

You can get a new 16" barrel for about the same price as an SBR tax stamp, less hassle, less wait. Plus you could sell your old barrel to recoup some cost(maybe about half, for a used barrel).

So what benefit do you gain by registering, or even modifying your 14.5" barrel?

Something to think about.

 

[geekWithA.45]

I see so many folks going through so many gyrations and gesticulations for 1.5" of barrel, on a platform famous for not working well with short barrels.

Sigh.

My advice: Get the extra inch and a half.

You'll save yourself time, money, legal risk, and your terminal performance will improve.