So, another What Would You Do in This Situation

[Minnesota Shooter]

Hey people.

Just out of curiousity, what would any of you gun owners do in this situation?

It's about 1 in the morning, you're at your home. You get a phone call from a friend, saying something about some 200 pound black dudes standing outside of your house.

You remember having a fight or 3 with this guy several months ago, and also remember about him saying something about getting you back.

You have just bought a brand spankin' new 12 guage shotgun.

What would you do in this situation?

You know they aren't armed with any firearms.

I would personally walk out of the door, rack and level the shotgun at they're general mass of bodies , and tell him to sit still while I called the police from the phone I had in my hand.



What would you have done in this situation?


The reason I'm asking, is that theres a very high possibility that something like that could happen to me in the near future.

 

[R.H. Lee]

You know they aren't armed with any firearms.

How can you be sure?

First, I would not go outside, armed or not. Are other family members inside your house? Look to their security first, and make sure any competent adults are armed. Call cops, explain you are inside and you are armed. Wait in the dark, listen. If they break down the door or crash through windows, shoot. Stay inside and wait for cops to arrive. That's my .02

 

[atk]

I think the first question is, where's the friend? Second question: what's he doing? Third, how much can I count on him, and what can I count on him doing?


Given all that, I don't have any family members to protect, so I'd hole up, and call the police, and advise them of the situation (including me being armed). Shotty would be loaded, and my favorite carry pieces would be unlocked (MA laws - must be locked for storage) and loaded. I'd be sure the lights were out, barricade the bedroom door, and watch the BGs out the window with a neat night vision monocular I picked up a couple years ago (I thought it was neat at the time, and it wasn't too expensive).

At this point, wait for further developments.



The idea of leaving one's house (concealment, cover) and any family members in the house (if appropriate) potentially unarmed does not appeal to me. And even though the BGs are on your land, there are still more of them than they are of you.

And just because you "know" they're not armed doesn't mean they're not armed.

 

[41mag]

Why does being a black dude matter?

It sounds like your already afraid-or at least leery-of him.

Stay inside & call the police.Don't start yelling at the guy.Try not to respond if he/they do.Try to keep a clear head.

Why escalate the situation by stepping outside?Do you really
want to shoot them?

YMMV

Check your local laws regarding lethal force.
ex.In Mi,I'd have make an attempt to flee if "they" broke in the door.
In Tx I could stand my ground.

Check your local laws.

 

[Coltdriver]

I would load the shotgun and rack a round.

Then I would call the police and ask them to come on by. I'd give the 911 operator my phone number and have them call me when they arrived.

Then I would stand by and wait in the most defensible room in the house.

Under no circumstances would I walk out to greet hostile people without any knowledge of the situation.

You bring in the law and you have a better chance of a longer term resolution.

You confront an unknown and you will get an unexpected result.

You only have one life, why risk it??

 

[psyopspec]

-Never, never, never leave a good defensible position. Your house, darkened, when you know your way around it and they don't is such a position. Add an extra never if you have family members in the house.

Do you have a back entrance? Windows accessible from the ground? While you're on the front porch, what's going on at those potential entry points? Why give up a perfectly defendable position where you have constant awareness of who's coming and going and where your exact location is unknown?

-Call police. Designate this to a family member/significant other if possible.

-DO make your presence known, but not by stepping out. Is there a front light you can turn on? Maybe flick the house lights? Yell from a window that the police are on their way so they better get gone (then be a good witness)? From the info you've given, we don't know if they're out to burglurize/vandalize your house, fight you, or kill you.

-I don't care if the Mickey Mouse/Garth Brooks/the Pope tells me they're unarmed. Unless I've cleared them myself, they're armed. Particularly if they mean me harm.

-It might even be a good idea to involve police now. In a dispute with two sides, it never hurts to be the one to file a report first after an incident, and call first in an attempt to prevent another one. Good luck.

 

[Zrex]

Sneak out the back door, climb up on the roof, crawl on my belly until I could see him, then slowly, rise to my feet while holding my trusty K-Bar in my teeth. I would then pull out a couple of flash bangs, toss them down on him, and when they go off, grab my m-60 and jump down, guns blazing.

Or I could stay in my house and call the cops. Hopefully I wouldnt be arrested for violating the Migratory Bird Act because I've got some blue jay feathers around my porch from where the cat had a snack.

 

[griz]

then slowly, rise to my feet while holding my trusty K-Bar in my teeth

I'm glad to se I'm not the only one who does that!

In real life, call 911, keep eyes open and finger off trigger until needed.

 

[adi]

You would have to put some faith in the police and court system. If they are there to hurt you and "get back", they will come back until they get bored or take it to the next level. This is definitely a situation to keep the defensive position and allow the police to defuse the situation in their way.

Plus the fact there are "some" of them, against one of you. If you harm one and subdue the others, they just have more revenge to get back at you. You do not know their state of mind, and what they are willing to do. Secure the interior, let police secure the exterior.

Personally, I wouldn't piss someone off enough that they would feel the need to track me down.

 

[AF_INT1N0]

Funny I knew I set up those claymores on the front step for a reason... Detonate claymores release feral pigs for cleanup.

Seriously though, what they said, stay inside, wait, call police. Don't let your ego get in the way of common sense. Have wife call police, stay inside, find a good bunker. If they try to jimmy the door... you can meet them with a buckshot-o-gram. The door makes a natural choke point. What are the laws pertaining to self defense in your state? Are you good to go with them on property or do they have to corner you in the house?


Also a large mean looking dog would be a good advantage. He doesn't have to actually be mean, just mean looking. Most dogs will defend the family without special training. And animals can usually tell who needs a good biting anyway. I personally keep a man-eating killer housecat. That's right, 11 pounds of furry calico rage!!(be afraid)

Why are these guys after you anyway?

 

[Valkman]

It's not an offense to stand in front of your house, or to walk up to the door. These may be private property but they are accesible to the public and you cannot shoot them for being there. Pointing the shotgun at them would be a mistake, as would just being outside.

We were told a story in CCW class about a guy who hired a guy to build a brick wall. The job didn't go so good and the brick layer was fired. He went to his truck, grabbed a hammer and walked up to the front door. The owner had already walked in and got his gun, and when the guy approached the front door with the hammer he shot him. He went to jail for murder, because it's not a crime to walk up to someone's door and he hadn't done anything yet. Same here - there is no action to take except to call the police.

 

[Powderman]

It's not an offense to stand in front of your house, or to walk up to the door. These may be private property but they are accesible to the public and you cannot shoot them for being there. Pointing the shotgun at them would be a mistake, as would just being outside.

Best advice so far in this thread.

There is no crime committed by standing in front of someone's residence. And, unless the person or persons have manifested clear criminal intent, you have to tell them to leave your property if they come within the curtilage (gated/fenced area) of your property before they can be charged with trespass.

Stay inside, lock and load, and watch. Call the police and give complete descriptions of the people outside; this starts the "paper trail". If they continue to show up at your house, call the police each and every time, giving descriptions each time.

Above all, be careful. They might be there strictly for the intimidation factor. If you lose your cool, they know that they're getting to you.

And hold fire, unless they actually attempt to, or gain entry to your house via violent and tumultuous means.

Check with your local prosecutor, and explain the situation to them.

 

[mete]

Never 'level the shotgun' [reckless endangerment], never leave your house .Call police.

 

[carpettbaggerr]

Pointing the shotgun at them would be a mistake

And assault with a deadly weapon.

I would personally walk out of the door, rack and level the shotgun at they're general mass of bodies , and tell him to sit still while I called the police from the phone I had in my hand.

The cops will probably arrest you when they get there. And it's awfully difficult to control a 12 gauge with one hand. Hope your finger doesn't slip -- then it's 2nd degree murder instead of just ADW.

I'd stay inside and call the cops.

 

[Valkman]

In self defense situations you have to be very careful about escalating the situation, and also about reversing the roles of who is attacking who - that's what I meant about it being a mistake to level or even show the shotgun.

By pointing the shotgun you've definitely escalated the situation, and in the eyes of the law are no longer the defender but the attacker. Now the BG's can take action in their defense - and be legal!

Then again it all seems to go out the window sometimes - here in NV it is illegal to use deadly force to protect property, yet one guy came out his house shooting at his own car which had just been stolen. They're driving down the street, he's shooting at them and as far as I know he didn't even get arrested.

 

[Fred Fuller]

By doing what you described you would be setting yourself up for trouble, maybe big trouble. Too soon old, too late smart goes double if you get old in jail. Working with your 'what if':

First, you have already had 'a fight or 3' with this guy, so there is an antagonistic relationship already established.

Second, by coming to your house at 1 o'clock in the morning, this guy has escalated the situation (how smart it is to get in situations where you get in multiple fights with people who know where you live we won't explore).

Third, by your going outside, unprovoked in any way, and pointing a gun, YOU have upped the ante to felonious levels, making YOU the most recent one to escalate the situation. Police, DA's, magistrates and judges tend to look badly on conduct like this, which is why is is a bad idea from the getgo.

As advised previously, the right thing to do is to stay in a reasonably secure room, with a phone and your brand spankin new guage (which you hopefully know how to use if you genuinely need to) and keep on talking to the police dispatcher on the phone until the situation is resolved. You need to be 'the good guy' and good guys don't go out hunting trouble or do anything at all to escalate a situation. Pointing guns at people is quite often defined as "assault with a deadly weapon" in most jurisdictions and it is not something the good guys do.

I suggest you get some training most ricky tick in self defense with a firearm (which should emphasize the legal aspects), it shouldn't be too hard to find to find or too expensive most anywhere in the country these days. Having a gun can get you in a lot more trouble than it keeps you out of if you don't do things right, and what the law says is often a lot different than what people think it is.

lpl/nc

 

[GEM]

Silly post by someone who isn't really schooled in the issues and wants some outrageous posts.

1. Who cares that the person is black? A little race baiting here. Maybe it is Dick Chaney's lesbian daughter with a chainsaw?

2. 200 lbs - scary. I'm 240 - wow - if it was a 160 lb guy who you had a fight with, how would that matter?

3. The poster wants you to say that you would do something violent.

4. The poster suggests tactically idiotic and illegal responses. Someone who suggests such is silly or trolling.

But just for the cause - given a suspicious guy outside - guess what:

1. Call cops, trigger loud alarm
2. Gather family in safe place
3. Prepare for further action

Just for the poster, if I were going to kill you and had a gun, you would never get to rack it, Sherlock.

 

[Minnesota Shooter]

"Silly post by someone who isn't really schooled in the issues and wants some outrageous posts."


Isn't schooled? Of course I'm not schooled in the issue, because if I was, then I wouldn't be asking.



"1. Who cares that the person is black? A little race baiting here. Maybe it is Dick Chaney's lesbian daughter with a chainsaw?"

No one cares, sure. meaningless information, maybe, race baiting, hell no. I had no idea people would take that as such a big deal, hell, I'm not even rascist, it was just some more descriptive information to paint the picture.


"2. 200 lbs - scary. I'm 240 - wow - if it was a 160 lb guy who you had a fight with, how would that matter?"


I would find a 200-240 6 foot plus person far more intimidating that a 160 pounder in general, in general from first glance Thats just me.


"3. The poster wants you to say that you would do something violent. "

Bullsh*t. If I wanted to hear crazy stuff, I would have posted somewhere else less grown up, such as www.totse.com I've read a thread or two about similar situations like this, and I knew already that I wouldn't be getting "KILL EM ALL, THROW H.E GRENADES AT THEY'RE HEADS!"

"4. The poster suggests tactically idiotic and illegal responses. Someone who suggests such is silly or trolling."

Once again, chill out. I have little or no knowledge in this area, so I do what any beginner should do... ASK QUESTIONS, SPECIFICALLY TOWARDS PEOPLE WHO KNOW MORE ABOUT THE SUBJECT THAN MYSELF

I see now that it is VERY good that I asked questions, as had this happened in real life, I would have most likely done what I had said I would have done, and gotten myself in a heap of trouble. But now, thanks to all the usefull posters on this forum, I know what to do, and what not to do.

Silly post? F*ck no.



"But just for the cause - given a suspicious guy outside - guess what:

1. Call cops, trigger loud alarm
2. Gather family in safe place
3. Prepare for further action"

Wow, the first bit of actually valuable information in your entire post, and for that, I thank you.



Just for the poster, if I were going to kill you and had a gun, you would never get to rack it, Sherlock.


Sherlock, I like that. Well, if I had the slightest inclination that you were out to kill me, I would doubt that you would go about ending my life by standing in my yard with several other people.

I would shoot you first, and would have already racked it long before you would be around to hear it.


These guys, are not out to kill me. How do I know that they don't own guns? Well for one, I, or someone I know is good friends with them, and they are neither of the right age, or know the right people to aquire a firearm.

 

[Minnesota Shooter]

Oh yes, and thank you to the other people on this thread, definitely helped me out.


Sorry if I sounded ignorant on the subject, I mean, it is true, I have little or no experience in this area and am just getting into gun ownership.

Don't know why, but I was always under the impression that if people go on your property without your permission that that is tresspassing, and you can deal with them how you want, not shooting at them or anything, but I just thought you were entitled to more than just a police phone call.



Anyways, thanks.

 

[GEM]

Well, I'm glad you are learning but I still find some of your responses disengenuous.

1. Just some more info to paint the picture - the guy was black. How naive, do you think we are? Would you mention it if the guy was white, probably not.

2. 160 lb people can easily take you apart. Learn this, if someone of any size wants to fight you, they can kill you. Look at the NY Times story today of a little guy who killed a 360 lb bouncer by cutting the artery in his leg. Thus, the weight was irrelevant.

3. The last part of your explanatory post about the rationale for going out, racking and pointing is incomprehensible. You say you know they have guns, so you point a gun at them. What?

Thus, your logic is that if someone is not a threat, you go point a gun at them. That is highly illegal. My point is that if you were faced with a potential threat of lethal force, then going out like Rambo and making a display of racking and pointing will get you killed.

4. Your impression of how you deal with trespassing is similarly bizarre. Pointing a gun at some one is highly illegal except under certain circumstances. Since you have admitted the people are harmless and not a lethal threat, you have probably committed an offense like brandishing or assault.

I suggest that you need to seriously study up on the use of deadly force and the laws of your locality. :banghead:

 

[Ktulu]

In Mi,I'd have make an attempt to flee if "they" broke in the door.

41mag, in Michigan you have a duty to retreat if you can on the street but not in your home.


BTW: Best answer so far, stay inside and call police.

 

[Intune]

Trespassing & other laws vary from state to state. With gun ownership comes responsibility. Bone up on your state laws. Is it possible to defuse the animosity between you two in some sort of public setting? Gun owners are some of the most polite people I have ever met. There is a reason for it.

P.S. Replacing letters with *** in curse words will still git you busted by Art's Grammaw. She can read between the lines. You may want to hit the edit button on your post & fix it.

 

[Minnesota Shooter]

Well, I'm glad you are learning but I still find some of your responses disengenuous.

1. Just some more info to paint the picture - the guy was black. How naive, do you think we are? Would you mention it if the guy was white, probably not.

Believe it or not, but had he been white, I would have done the same. I dunno, I've always included ethnicity in storys, maybe because I'm more of a visual person and like it when people paint the picture for me.

No racial prejudice intended though.

2. 160 lb people can easily take you apart. Learn this, if someone of any size wants to fight you, they can kill you. Look at the NY Times story today of a little guy who killed a 360 lb bouncer by cutting the artery in his leg. Thus, the weight was irrelevant.


No sh*t, I've been into boxing and martial arts for years, so I know that knowlege and skill is the real issue. Bruce Lee was something like 130-5 pounds was it? But generally, when sizing someone up in the first several seconds, I'd pick the smaller of the two, a 160 pounder over someone almost 100 pounds bigger anyday. If I had the chance to see them in action or something along the lines of that, then hell, I'd pick whoever I thought I had more skill then.
Aside from the point though..

3. The last part of your explanatory post about the rationale for going out, racking and pointing is incomprehensible. You say you know they have guns, so you point a gun at them. What?

Rationale? Well, I'll be honest, thats the angry, less intelligent part of me. I don't like these people, and so in the heat of the moment, had I not known the laws, I would have pulled out the shotgun, and pointed it at them, but since I'm aware of how much shi*t I'd be in, I would most definitely refrain from doing that.

Thus, your logic is that if someone is not a threat, you go point a gun at them. That is highly illegal. My point is that if you were faced with a potential threat of lethal force, then going out like Rambo and making a display of racking and pointing will get you killed.

Eh, half true. If I was in that moment before I had read this thread and done that, which it would have to have been, since I wouldn't do that now, it would have been to do a "don't f*ck with me I don't feel like taking anything," type of impression.

4. Your impression of how you deal with trespassing is similarly bizarre. Pointing a gun at some one is highly illegal except under certain circumstances. Since you have admitted the people are harmless and not a lethal threat, you have probably committed an offense like brandishing or assault.

"bizarre? Not sure about that. Ignorant, most definitely. I didn't know about the actual laws, although I should have. I was under the impression that people could point a firearm at someone who was entering they're property, when they had no idea what they had in mind."

Shooting on the other hand...

" suggest that you need to seriously study up on the use of deadly force and the laws of your locality"


Planning on it.

 

[psyopspec]

C'mon guys..

Let's keep our collective cool, or the terrorists have already won.

Seriously, the scenarios that come up in this section make for the most unique threads on this board. That we might all continue to openly ask questions and share knowledge, I ask everyone who reads this to please keep it civil. Live & learn.

 

[Silent-Snail]

41mag, in Michigan you have a duty to retreat if you can on the street but not in your home.

Well thats good news. Last I heard here in Wisconsin "Duty to retreat" aplies in the home as well. Maybe I'm living in the wrong state?:banghead: