So, FN Five seveN or Blackwater 1911?

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sounds better than it is. it doesn't have much for stopping power, especially if you miss a vital organ.
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Really? Guess what, no gun has any stopping power unless you damage a vital organ. Nope, not even the 45, 10mm, 44 mag, 50bmg, 22lr, or 17hmr can stop someone without damaging a vital organ. In the real world, shooting someone is far different than in a video game.
In real life, a 45 or a 9mm has a decent chance of penetrating the chest cavity to strike the vitals, they are made to deliver projectiles of sufficient heft, and speed balanced out to be controllable. The 5.7, is designed to penetrate with velocity moreso than projectile weight. It is made to cleanly penetrate an initial strike zone such as an arm bone, or chest cavity, and it will go fast enough to fragment if it slows down fast enough, otherwise it will pass through. Its a nasty little thing to get hit with, and it can turn mediocre cover into concealment unlike slower heavier pistol rounds. Couple this with the fact it has about 1/3rd less recoil than a 9mm in the same frame, and twice the capacity, the 5.7 is nothing to sneeze at.


It has worthy appeal in a civilian market.
 
:eek:

the guns are going for dirt cheap in my area, so gunshops can rid themselves of their current stock. in fact, my buddie's shop has them on sale right now at a great price, and still can't sell them....

the ammo costs more than 45acp most of the time too, and that doesn't help.
 
72% of the people shot mere only wounded and lived.
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Not to be an arse, but isn't this pretty close to the FBI stat of handgun shooting fatalities? I'm pulling this from memory, so I could be wrong, but I think that the FBI puts the average number of people who survive a handgun wound at about 80%.

1911. 5.7 is a novelty IMO
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Exactly the reason that I would say go for the 5.7. I love the 1911, but if you already have a good one, and don't really "need" another gun, the the "novelty" factor could make it a cool little toy for after you're done shooting the real guns.:D
 
I would love to find a source of fn five sevens that cost less than $900.
 
I'm more into the PS90 than the 5.7. But any time I grab it as my primary, my Kimber .45 or Glock 23 .40 are my secondary anyway. Effective range is about 70-100yards, the little gun with an Aimpoint isn't great for anything beyond that.

SS195 makes a nasty wound. Ballistic jelly really deosn't show the rounds potential too well. A light weight high speed round deosn't do well in wet goo. It stops quickly, which can be usefull if desighned properly. For example if I swim in your pool 3 feet under water, making tactical faces at you, you can't hit me with a rifle, but a 1911 .45 should get me.

But at the same time a heavy jacket or the targets ribcage/sternum don't slow the round down much at all.

SS195 has a small entry wound for 2", then turns once and boom, a tennis ball sized (temp cavity) shreddage of meat. See if your butcher ever has some left over big chunks getting old to shoot at. Pretty sure it's leathal. Impressive? Nope, not really, but certainly leathal.

SS197 is nearly useless for defense from what I've seen. It's a varmit round. SS195 seems to be the defense ammo of choice for 5.7x28mm.


I find it really funny that everyones OK with the MP5, but goes nuts about the P90? The semi auto MP5 thing vs. PS90 gave the edge to the PS90, being that it's round is about the same as 9mm and slightly better than a 9mm Pistol with Rem GS, but the ps90 was quicker, more reliable, and more accurate than the mp5.

We shot:
Weird .mil helmet-tie
water jugs- 9mm wins
wet newspaper- 9mm wins barely
dry phonebooks- 5.7 wins big time
old pork roasts, eh......giant pig chunks. :barf: about a tie, messier with 5.7
Ballistic jelly, you can buy the mix online, but it's a pain to use, keep cool- 9mm

We shot the pig 3-4 times with a ps90 at relatively close range maybe 30yds. No exit wounds. I'm too much of a sissy to hit it just once. Want to try to be human........er, naw, those things are crazy mean sometimes. I didn't want to get chewed on again.:rolleyes: My bud had me covered with a 6.8spc Ar just in case it didn't kill the pig or got messy.

Some other forum about 5.7 kills ( I had nothing to do with this page, but only thing I can find similar to my story tonight):


http://www.fivesevenforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1199&sid=ba963321a12d0e871b6ea76c556d8a90
 
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5.7, the 1911 is an outdated design. :neener:

Seriously, those that bash the 5.7 for defense might want to consider tha fact that most of a firearms use is at the range or hunting. There are many more reasons to pick a particular caliber than just it's effectiveness at stopping criminals. Consider the fact that the .308 win is a more effective man stopper than the .45 acp, does that make the .45 impotent?

Novelty is a great reason to buy a gun imo.
 
Effective range is about 70-100yards, the little gun with an Aimpoint isn't great for anything beyond that.
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My brother shot a jackrabbit at a measured 175 yds. Don't sell it short.

Not to be an arse, but isn't this pretty close to the FBI stat of handgun shooting fatalities? I'm pulling this from memory, so I could be wrong, but I think that the FBI puts the average number of people who survive a handgun wound at about 80%.
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Read post #25 again, the first paragraph at least.
 
I went to the range today and because of this thread took my 5.7. It's a great round. I had my 9mms, a 40, a 45, and a 380 with me and shot about 500 rounds of "real" ammo plus about 300 rounds of 22lr. I almost caught my trigger finger on fire with my P7 (first time i'd really ran through a box of ammo - it hurt!).

Those of you who are like me (follow up shot accuracy is ok to awful) will love the 5.7. Follow up shots go exactly where you want them to go. I can double, tripple, and quad tap this gun and it's a joy to shoot. Want to shoot a BG at 75 feet really quickly - use the 5.7. You'll likely hit him if you can aim your pistol.

20 supersonic bursts of accurate destruction available to be fired more accurately than with most any other handgun. It's a great round. It won't put a pancake sized hole in someone, but it might just put 20 rounds in a guy the size of a pancake.

The winner of my day was my little Kahr PM9!! What a GREAT little gun! It actually won a close battle with my P7 for 'shorter' barrel supremecy. That little Kahr is a hoss, and it's small and reliable.

You guys shoot what you are good with. That's the best advice I've had and i'll pass it on.
 
I'd get the 1911. If you really want a unique round for your 1911, I'm in agreement with poster number 5 and say get a 10mm. Who it was that said the 10mm was for people who can't aim. *** does that mean?!

I've shot a 5.7 as I'm sure many here have and I was not particularly impressed with this round or the FHN it came out of. What a cheap looking and feeling piece of crap! A grand for that?!! You've gotta be kidding me!
 
^^^right.

a lot of people use a short barreled semi auto pistol for hunting.
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Completely disregarding his statement that most, the majority of guns are not purchased for defense, but range fun. so what, the only two legitimate uses for a firearm are hunting and self defense?

I know you dislike the Five-seveN, and I understand very much the issues people have with them, but really it isn't that bad.
 
Completely disregarding his statement that most, the majority of guns are not purchased for defense, but range fun. so what, the only two legitimate uses for a firearm are hunting and self defense?
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it's not designed at a range toy, or target pistol. being that ammo for it is pricy, it's a poor choice in that capacity (and for personal defense).

as i said before, it was designed for the military/LE use for it's armor piercing capabilities, along with it's high capacity. it's an extremely specialized weapon, that, for civilians, is nothing more than a novelty toy.
 
People sure get excited over trivia...

Hunting with a short-barrelled semi-auto? Sure.

Back about 30 years ago, there was a population explosion of jackrabbits in northern Nevada and SW Idaho. A buddy of mine used his Commander in IPSC style, wandering through the sagebrush and jumping the rabbits. He got up to around one in three. Not bad, to draw and shoot at a running bunny in the brush. But, he could do perfect scores on El Presidente in 5.0 seconds. Wish I could.

Odds are, this 5.7 might have been a pretty good cartridge for the purpose.

About all any advertisement is good for is to let you know that a product is available. Believing the hype is not a sign of good judgement. All I need to know is that the package will launch a bullet of a certain weight at a certain speed. I imagine I can figure out the utility, if any, for my purposes. It ain't rocket science.
 
Love my fiveseven...and my 1911. The fiveseven is a very unique gun firing a very unique cartridge. Ammo availability has been more than acceptable for me. When the "Obama craze" happened, 45 and 9mm were pretty scarce but 5.7 was still available. My local BassPro has plenty of the ss197 and ss195's.

The 5.7 is flat, accurate, low recoil, and is not materially more expensive that equivalent quality/bullet construction ammo for your 45.

Boils down to personal choice...some folks REALLY like specific guns and others like to experiment with different types. I tend to fall into the latter category.
 
As of now there is only one pistol made that takes the 5.7x28mm round I like the weapon but it is very over priced at over $1100 most everywhere at about $750 it would be a choice I might make. Good fun to shoot, need other choices from other pistol makers.
 
^^^right.

a lot of people use a short barreled semi auto pistol for hunting.
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I love to handgun hunt with a short bbl auto. I enjoy the extra challenge it poses. My goal in hunting is not to bag animals. My goal is to challenge myself, relax in the outdoors, and enjoy myself. If I were purely interested in killing animals efficiently I would choose a different tool. We all have different goals when we head afield.
 
I just got a Blackwater and I can't stop messing with it, looking at it. I like the 1911 model as well, don't know if I'll find it.
 
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